Anonymous wrote:You cannot reason with the righteous victims in this thread. They are never, ever going to do anything but blast that poster, because their own DH/DW hurt them, so they resort to inane analogies to theft and on and on.

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Anonymous wrote:^ According to you, perhaps not to him.

I had this same thought. The cheated upon often claim that all was great. No. No it wasn't. Not claiming your spouse is justified in what s/he did, but there is a problem between the two of you if s/he feels the need to step out.

No, the problem is with the cheater and their inability to communicate their needs to their spouse.

I cheated, and I communicated my needs to my husband, between just the two of us and with a counselor. He counldn't "hear" me because his denial was so strong. Men respond better to actions than words. He thought he was good in bed, and demonstrative of his love. He was neither. I told him so. He was genuinely shocked that I found someone else who did in fact listen to me.

ME ME ME. That's all I hear you saying.

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Anonymous wrote:No, I was brutal, but you're one. Good god. You are steeped in the victim crap, and it's surreal to say your stbx if that's you would testify to your perfection and you are so effing comfortable attacking people who may have had different (less perfect wives? no doubt.) marriages. But I'm sure the stbx will pine for you until he dies, miserable and alone.

Dude. Did you even read her post? She never said she was perfect. She said that her ex admitted that she didn't do anything wrong, and that he cheated anyway.

Which is actually textbook. Most people fall into affairs - they don't go looking for them. It's a crime of opportunity.

Yeah right, they accidentally slip in the corridor and fall on someone and what do you know his peepee is in her hooha.

An affair requires many deliberate decisions, and if it's more than a one-night stand, requires a long-term, planned campaign of deception. Don't give me that "just fell into it" bullshit.

+100000000

It is both. You fall into it because you aren't looking for it. But then once it is in front of you, the possibility of this affair, yes, you make a million different deliberate decisions to facilitate the affair. No, his dick didn't just fall into her vagina, that is just stupid. They make a decision to make that happen. But they fell into it because they weren't expecting to be in that needy place that allows for an affair.

So, if I am confronted with a sudden unexpected opportunity to do something immoral - shoplift, embezzle, drive off with a car that the owner left running with the keys in it - then I am excused because I just fell into it even though I knew it was wrong and I had to make a positive decision to do it anyway.

Nice straw man there. Do you really think that stealing is analogous? Are you breaking a vow you personally made? Stealing anything is not an intimate betrayal, which makes it unlike an affair.

Of course we are all still responsible for our actions. But many affairs - especially ones that have any kind of emotional component - start as developing a friendship with someone of the opposite sex. This is how affairs with coworkers start: a little conversation, some minor flirting, a small complaint about the spouse, then coffee and lunch dates, and it escalates from there. The person "falling" into an affair justifies the small, non-damaging actions as they go. "It's just coffee. We are just friends. She just gets me." The sex is the culmination of that most of the time - not the beginning. Now, do you think the decision to strike up a conversation with an attractive person is an affair? Is that part of a "planned, long-term campaign of deception"? For most people, the answer is no. They see no harm, because at first there is no harm. Most affairs start innocuously enough. Do long-term affairs require sustained deception, and a conscious decision to lie over and over again? Definitely. But still, the vast majority of people who fall in love with someone outside of their marriage don't set out to do so. That doesn't mean that they are not responsible for their actions. They are still terribly flawed individuals who have done a terrible, damaging thing.

Anonymous wrote:Post at 16:13 is correct, thank you. My husband's emotional affair began very slowly over time with a female coworker he worked closely with for several years. Nothing happened until he went on a trip with her and then the deception began with texting, emails, phone calls. After I figured this out and confronted him, it took nearly 2 1/2 years until he was over her. He has worked with many women of all ages and this is the first time this happened. Nothing physical as far as I know, but all of a sudden a spouse's allegiance changes to the other person ! He would constantly be defending her to me. And criticizing me, which he never did before.

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PP from 20:30 here. Not female.

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Anonymous wrote:DD14 read her mom's diary and told me. It's been a tough few years.

That's horrible

Thanks. We are still trying to work on our marriage, but of course DD told a few of her friends so basically our whole circle knows, as well as her AP's wife and children. In a way that makes it easier. But DD and DW have really struggled to get along. I never though I'd use the words "moral authority" as it sounds so old fashioned, but when you do something really bad and the kids know, it becomes very hard to be a parent. DD is really disrespectful of DW and when they fight, it's awful. I don't really know what to do, some bells you just can't unring.

I can't believe a grown woman kept a diary of her cheating. She had to want to get caught on some level. Good luck, you are a good man for trying to keep the family together

I keep a journal of my EA at work to keep my sanity. It would be very incriminating if discovered, but worth the risk to me for the therapeutic benefit.

Me, too. PA , though. Only recently did I shred the whole thing. I needed it to process.

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Anonymous wrote:DD14 read her mom's diary and told me. It's been a tough few years.

That's horrible

Thanks. We are still trying to work on our marriage, but of course DD told a few of her friends so basically our whole circle knows, as well as her AP's wife and children. In a way that makes it easier. But DD and DW have really struggled to get along. I never though I'd use the words "moral authority" as it sounds so old fashioned, but when you do something really bad and the kids know, it becomes very hard to be a parent. DD is really disrespectful of DW and when they fight, it's awful. I don't really know what to do, some bells you just can't unring.

I can't believe a grown woman kept a diary of her cheating. She had to want to get caught on some level. Good luck, you are a good man for trying to keep the family together

I keep a journal of my EA at work to keep my sanity. It would be very incriminating if discovered, but worth the risk to me for the therapeutic benefit.

Me, too. PA , though. Only recently did I shred the whole thing. I needed it to process.

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Anonymous wrote:DD14 read her mom's diary and told me. It's been a tough few years.

That's horrible

Thanks. We are still trying to work on our marriage, but of course DD told a few of her friends so basically our whole circle knows, as well as her AP's wife and children. In a way that makes it easier. But DD and DW have really struggled to get along. I never though I'd use the words "moral authority" as it sounds so old fashioned, but when you do something really bad and the kids know, it becomes very hard to be a parent. DD is really disrespectful of DW and when they fight, it's awful. I don't really know what to do, some bells you just can't unring.

I can't believe a grown woman kept a diary of her cheating. She had to want to get caught on some level. Good luck, you are a good man for trying to keep the family together

I keep a journal of my EA at work to keep my sanity. It would be very incriminating if discovered, but worth the risk to me for the therapeutic benefit.

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Anonymous wrote:DD14 read her mom's diary and told me. It's been a tough few years.

That's horrible

Thanks. We are still trying to work on our marriage, but of course DD told a few of her friends so basically our whole circle knows, as well as her AP's wife and children. In a way that makes it easier. But DD and DW have really struggled to get along. I never though I'd use the words "moral authority" as it sounds so old fashioned, but when you do something really bad and the kids know, it becomes very hard to be a parent. DD is really disrespectful of DW and when they fight, it's awful. I don't really know what to do, some bells you just can't unring.

I can't believe a grown woman kept a diary of her cheating. She had to want to get caught on some level. Good luck, you are a good man for trying to keep the family together

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Anonymous wrote:DD14 read her mom's diary and told me. It's been a tough few years.

That's horrible

Thanks. We are still trying to work on our marriage, but of course DD told a few of her friends so basically our whole circle knows, as well as her AP's wife and children. In a way that makes it easier. But DD and DW have really struggled to get along. I never though I'd use the words "moral authority" as it sounds so old fashioned, but when you do something really bad and the kids know, it becomes very hard to be a parent. DD is really disrespectful of DW and when they fight, it's awful. I don't really know what to do, some bells you just can't unring.

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Anonymous wrote:DD14 read her mom's diary and told me. It's been a tough few years.

That's horrible