Anonymous wrote:A good friend's daughter went to Brown. Total party girl, super wealthy family -- classic Brown stereotype, or so I thought. She's now a first year medical student. I don't think you can buy your way into a US medical school.

Is this true? I know a number of people who went to GW med school. They are all local doctors' kids and went to mediocre undergrad schools with mediocre test scores, had to take time off to get a postbac or do research, etc. but they all ended up at GW med. I assumed they probably did ok but their parental connections or money helped them get in. No?

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Anonymous wrote:The overwhelming majority of in-state admits to UVA or W&M can not get in to a "low Ivy".

Top 25% at UVA and W&M have plenty of super-selective admits that recognized the value of staying in-state.

Translation: their parents said they would only pay for state school

This is true. I graduated from W&M fairly recently and knew several in-state classmates who turned down Brown, UChicago, UT-Austin and other amazing schools because of in-state tuition or merit scholarships. I know a few people at Brown as well and here's what I've seen as the main differences between the two schools:

- The biggest difference is the wealth. Brown students are, on average, from richer families than W&M student. I had a friend at W&M from a very rich family who found it hard sometimes to relate to people who weren't as well off, though this went both ways. My friend would have fit in much better at Brown.
- Students at Brown are more likely to pound the pavement for what they want, as a result of both the opportunities they have on-campus and their own drive. W&M students are more complacent, on average.
- As a follow-on to the above, W&M campus resources are nowhere near as plentiful. While my friends at other schools can say that Christine Lagarde or another prominent speaker came to campus, and was followed by another well-known person the next week, if one prominent person came to W&M in a single year, it was a big deal. There weren't any trips to museums or nearby activities that places like Brown would normally pay for. This is a question of location, of course, but the lack of funding does not help. There is lots of money for student research at W&M, however.

I'm not saying this to diss W&M. I had an amazing time on-campus; there are obvious limitations at every school. On the plus side, W&M has amazing faculty (who, even if they are woefully underpaid, are incredibly dedicated to their profession and their students), a beautiful campus and a lots of amazingly smart and kind students. You can't go wrong if you go here and I don't think you'll miss out on any amazing post-grad opportunities by choosing W&M, but you will have to work MUCH harder for them to get your foot in the door than if you were at an Ivy League school.

Anonymous wrote:Not unless you are truly rich. For most, private college is a scam.

Some people don't want to hear this, but HYPSM opens doors throughout life. The fact that a few top kids at, say, UMCP change that.

Anonymous wrote:Is Dartmouth a low Ivy too?

yes BUT dartmouth has good pre-professional placement due to the nature of the student body.

It's easier to get into than brown though IMO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overwhelming majority of in-state admits to UVA or W&M can not get in to a "low Ivy".

Top 25% at UVA and W&M have plenty of super-selective admits that recognized the value of staying in-state.

Translation: their parents said they would only pay for state school

Not unless you are truly rich. For most, private college is a scam.

Anonymous wrote:The overwhelming majority of in-state admits to UVA or W&M can not get in to a "low Ivy".

Top 25% at UVA and W&M have plenty of super-selective admits that recognized the value of staying in-state.

The overwhelming majority of in-state admits to UVA or W&M can not get in to a "low Ivy".

Is Dartmouth a low Ivy too?

I am originally from VA (not NoVA), and spent a couple of years at Brown for postdoc. My oldest kid is in early elementary, but I would *much* rather they choose Brown over W&M. I think it has a better reputation than W&M (was surprised this was even a question?), it attracts more open-minded students (yes, a little crunchy, but that's okay), and it's fairly close to Boston. Plus, I'd push her to get away from the area to develop her independence and spread her wings. YMMV.

Also, this is the first time I've seen the term "low Ivy," so points for originality.

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Anonymous wrote:In re to Brown's endowment: Yes, it's the smallest in the Ivy League, but they don't have the business, law, and various grad programs the others fund. Brown seems most focused on offering a liberals arts undergrad experience.

brown has a medical school.

princeton doesn't and princeton doesn't have a law or b-school either.

princeton's giving rate by alums and endowment destroy browns.

Princeton actually destroys everyone when it comes to endowment per student, which is the far more meaningful figure than total endowment. Princeton stands alone with a staggering endowment of $2.81M per student. With a conservative endowment draw of 4%, that spins off more than $112K per year for each student. Yale is the only other school that tops $2M per student (Harvard is 3rd at $1.7M).

A list is here: http://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html

Grinnell is #9 - the last school on the list above the $1M per student mark - so I guess you who judge a school by its endowment will be rushing to send your kids there.

Was surprised to see Richmond so high at #15 - helps explain the beautiful campus and lavish merit aid.

grinnell has a had a hard time getting domestic students to come and was forced to take omore international students - they said the undershot enrollment figures and exhausted waitlists. seems like people don't want to go there.

Grinnell is COLD!! (as in temperature) and pretty isolated, esp for many kids coming from the DMV.

Anonymous wrote:Husband and I are just state schoolers, daughter really wants to get away. Is a low Ivy worth it?

As a low-Ivy grad - I would say it totally depends on the kid, what type of environment you think they'll like best, what their interests are, and your financial decisions. The lifetime connections and prestige of going to a very top school can be great. But at the same time, I have classmates who are very successful on paper, who are teachers, who are artists, who have failed at things, who run restaurants, etc.. And you could likely find that same range among W&M grads. If you have the $ to support it, Brown is great. Very nurturing, open minded, lots of different opportunities, etc. and Providence is a fun place. It's not an obvious answer tho.

Simple to answer:

What do you give up to pay for this? Will she be able to participate in all Brown offers or will she be sidelined by what others think of as nickels and dimes? Does this compromise your own retirement? What about paying for grad school?

Therein lies your answer.

My son wont be applying to W&M because we don't think he'll be happy there -- but we have more money than most.

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Anonymous wrote:In re to Brown's endowment: Yes, it's the smallest in the Ivy League, but they don't have the business, law, and various grad programs the others fund. Brown seems most focused on offering a liberals arts undergrad experience.

brown has a medical school.

princeton doesn't and princeton doesn't have a law or b-school either.

princeton's giving rate by alums and endowment destroy browns.

Princeton actually destroys everyone when it comes to endowment per student, which is the far more meaningful figure than total endowment. Princeton stands alone with a staggering endowment of $2.81M per student. With a conservative endowment draw of 4%, that spins off more than $112K per year for each student. Yale is the only other school that tops $2M per student (Harvard is 3rd at $1.7M).

A list is here: http://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html

Grinnell is #9 - the last school on the list above the $1M per student mark - so I guess you who judge a school by its endowment will be rushing to send your kids there.

Was surprised to see Richmond so high at #15 - helps explain the beautiful campus and lavish merit aid.

I went to a school that's in the top 10 of the endowment/student rankings and it didn't seem very 'rich' on the outside and the merit aid isn't super lavish either.

Grinnell is the only school in that top 10 that offers merit aid

no there is another one that does.

Are you talking about the McCabe Scholarships at Swarthmore? They offer like 4 scholarships a year to kids who live in suburban Philly and the Delmarva peninsula. I wouldn't really consider that a Merit Aid program. But I do agree that for such a well-endowed school, Swarthmore is not that richly appointed. However that seems to be the ethos of the college, and perhaps they are investing their wealth into an outstanding faculty, rather than Student Activity bells and whistles.

Here are the Top 10 by endowment per student:
Princeton ($2.8M/student)
Yale (2.01M)
Harvard 1.7
Stanford 1.4
Amherst 1.2
MIT 1.19
Swarthmore 1.16
Grinnell 1.05
Bowdoin 774,000/student

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In re to Brown's endowment: Yes, it's the smallest in the Ivy League, but they don't have the business, law, and various grad programs the others fund. Brown seems most focused on offering a liberals arts undergrad experience.

brown has a medical school.

princeton doesn't and princeton doesn't have a law or b-school either.

princeton's giving rate by alums and endowment destroy browns.

Princeton actually destroys everyone when it comes to endowment per student, which is the far more meaningful figure than total endowment. Princeton stands alone with a staggering endowment of $2.81M per student. With a conservative endowment draw of 4%, that spins off more than $112K per year for each student. Yale is the only other school that tops $2M per student (Harvard is 3rd at $1.7M).

A list is here: http://www.reachhighscholars.org/college_endowments.html

Grinnell is #9 - the last school on the list above the $1M per student mark - so I guess you who judge a school by its endowment will be rushing to send your kids there.

Was surprised to see Richmond so high at #15 - helps explain the beautiful campus and lavish merit aid.

I went to a school that's in the top 10 of the endowment/student rankings and it didn't seem very 'rich' on the outside and the merit aid isn't super lavish either.

Grinnell is the only school in that top 10 that offers merit aid

no there is another one that does.