Honestly, that was not my experience in college. We were smart enough (girls and guys) to protect ourselves from STDs. And if you think that only the drunk kids are having sex in college, I got a bridge to sell ya.

Dear pp, no I don't think that. But I do believe the data suppirts that drunken stupors are when most unprotected sex occurs and people don't think "wait, i could be pregnant next week" because it has been proven. Have you not heard of reduced inhibitions? No one is saying all or nothing, it is a likelihood test. If you are drunk, you are more LIKELY TO:
Have unprotected sex
Have sex with a stranger
Have promiscuous sex
Get pregnant
Develop other problems, but those risks are enough.

Anonymous wrote:The person who wants her child to wait until he's 25 to have a beer is the same person who will want to pick out her child's first house, his spouse, and to name all the grandchildren. Did you also choose his major and his college? You sound like you have some boundary issues.

Ah, you mean the slippery slope argument? That because I ask him not to be a drunk before 25, I must be controlling and rigid? Laughing again. No, life is not so black and white. There are distinctions and finesses that all- or- nothing slippery slopists cannot fathom.

The person who wants her child to wait until he's 25 to have a beer is the same person who will want to pick out her child's first house, his spouse, and to name all the grandchildren. Did you also choose his major and his college? You sound like you have some boundary issues.

Anonymous wrote:What do you do?

You tell your kid what your expectations are for his behavior. If he failed to meet those expectations, you tell him calmly that you are disappointed in him. Then you let it go. He is an adult.

If he gets drunk again, tell him again.

Well, you first off don't set them up to break the law by having a ridiculous law that no one is abiding by on the books.

You may think that I'm advocating wild drunken crazy stuff. I am not. Make it legal for a HS grad to buy his own beer.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the "flippant" poster.

So what?

You and the pp saying they would worry if their kid never got drunk are not normal. Sorry! But, the science is in and teens' brains do not mature until age 25. They are doing serious damage to their brain, liver, etc. and you should care. Sure, once isn't going to make someone an alcoholic but, you build up your tolerance for it and then you need more and more to get drunk.

Because you answered the way you did than your opinion is really meaningless and the op should ignore.

Well, when you send young, healthy adults to a university they are going to do what young, healthy adults do. And sometimes they will go to parties to socialize and there will be alcohol there. Not cake and ice cream, but alcohol. These are not HS teenagers being monitored by Mom and Dad anymore.

Infantalizing a 20 year old is more harmful - in my opinion - than allowing that kid to spread his wings, have fun, learn about life a little bit. Making it illegal for a HS grad to have a freakin' beer is ridiculous. Insisting that a person isn't really a grown up until they are 25 is sad to me.

Np here. ^pp must be a kid. Explaining health consequences is not infantilizing, he'll still make his own choices. And brain development ends at age 25, proven, has nothing to do with legal age. I think this ^one fried their brain cells already.

25 year old adults are not mentally children. Just because their brain development hasn't quite ended does not mean that they are not fully grown, functioning adults. Yes, they are still young and relatively inexperienced compared to, say, a 35 year old. But I can say the same thing about a 35 year old vs 55 year old.

We mature as we age. The average 18 year old is old enough to self monitor and make personal choices all by themselves. And the fact is, an 18 year old who wants to binge drink and drive drunk is already doing that. The law is not going to stop them.

Pp here. Brain development is not the same as maturation. How can you equate them? Maturation is at any age. Brain development means it it still physiologically forming/not done growing until age 25. It is the most important organ and is the last to finish developing and finish growing. Maturing is not the point. There is not difference at all in brain development between 35 & 55 because it isnt developing as it rises through those ages. In fact, it is decompensating through the older years, which is why you want to give it it's best shot to optimize and maximize through the younger years.

+1

The science is very clear on this. Drinking before the brain is mature *will* have a permanent negative impact on brain development. So will doing (other) drugs.

I don't expect my 19yo never to consume a beer prior to age 25 (although I would be happy if he made that choice). But I have emphasized to him over and over again that alcohol abuse (which includes getting drunk) will compromise his brain development. I have also told him that because we have alcoholism in the family, and because there is a genetic component to addictions, he needs to proceed with caution.

No one is saying that parents shouldn't talk to their kids about responsible drinking, maintaining their dignity, being respectful of others at parties, the consequences of alcohol poisoning, consent, STDs, NEVER drinking and driving etc. They should be having these talks regardless of what the minimum age law is.

But I do think that at 19 they are generally mature enough to go to walk to/from (or uber to/from or take the bus to/from) a bar, play darts and have a few beers with their friends.

Making the normal, young adult social scene illegal to the point where "kids" are drinking in secret in basements and afraid to call 911 if they see a friend pass out is really dumb and completely ineffective and even dangerous.

Hahaha, most aren't even mature enough to say "would you wear a condom"? Or I don't want oral sex because I don't want to risk cancer causing hpv. Most are learning games about maximum drunk in minimum time. These aren't kids sipping a beer at a cocktail party.

Honestly, that was not my experience in college. We were smart enough (girls and guys) to protect ourselves from STDs. And if you think that only the drunk kids are having sex in college, I got a bridge to sell ya.

What do you do?

You tell your kid what your expectations are for his behavior. If he failed to meet those expectations, you tell him calmly that you are disappointed in him. Then you let it go. He is an adult.

If he gets drunk again, tell him again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the "flippant" poster.

So what?

You and the pp saying they would worry if their kid never got drunk are not normal. Sorry! But, the science is in and teens' brains do not mature until age 25. They are doing serious damage to their brain, liver, etc. and you should care. Sure, once isn't going to make someone an alcoholic but, you build up your tolerance for it and then you need more and more to get drunk.

Because you answered the way you did than your opinion is really meaningless and the op should ignore.

Well, when you send young, healthy adults to a university they are going to do what young, healthy adults do. And sometimes they will go to parties to socialize and there will be alcohol there. Not cake and ice cream, but alcohol. These are not HS teenagers being monitored by Mom and Dad anymore.

Infantalizing a 20 year old is more harmful - in my opinion - than allowing that kid to spread his wings, have fun, learn about life a little bit. Making it illegal for a HS grad to have a freakin' beer is ridiculous. Insisting that a person isn't really a grown up until they are 25 is sad to me.

Np here. ^pp must be a kid. Explaining health consequences is not infantilizing, he'll still make his own choices. And brain development ends at age 25, proven, has nothing to do with legal age. I think this ^one fried their brain cells already.

25 year old adults are not mentally children. Just because their brain development hasn't quite ended does not mean that they are not fully grown, functioning adults. Yes, they are still young and relatively inexperienced compared to, say, a 35 year old. But I can say the same thing about a 35 year old vs 55 year old.

We mature as we age. The average 18 year old is old enough to self monitor and make personal choices all by themselves. And the fact is, an 18 year old who wants to binge drink and drive drunk is already doing that. The law is not going to stop them.

Pp here. Brain development is not the same as maturation. How can you equate them? Maturation is at any age. Brain development means it it still physiologically forming/not done growing until age 25. It is the most important organ and is the last to finish developing and finish growing. Maturing is not the point. There is not difference at all in brain development between 35 & 55 because it isnt developing as it rises through those ages. In fact, it is decompensating through the older years, which is why you want to give it it's best shot to optimize and maximize through the younger years.

+1

The science is very clear on this. Drinking before the brain is mature *will* have a permanent negative impact on brain development. So will doing (other) drugs.

I don't expect my 19yo never to consume a beer prior to age 25 (although I would be happy if he made that choice). But I have emphasized to him over and over again that alcohol abuse (which includes getting drunk) will compromise his brain development. I have also told him that because we have alcoholism in the family, and because there is a genetic component to addictions, he needs to proceed with caution.

No one is saying that parents shouldn't talk to their kids about responsible drinking, maintaining their dignity, being respectful of others at parties, the consequences of alcohol poisoning, consent, STDs, NEVER drinking and driving etc. They should be having these talks regardless of what the minimum age law is.

But I do think that at 19 they are generally mature enough to go to walk to/from (or uber to/from or take the bus to/from) a bar, play darts and have a few beers with their friends.

Making the normal, young adult social scene illegal to the point where "kids" are drinking in secret in basements and afraid to call 911 if they see a friend pass out is really dumb and completely ineffective and even dangerous.

At 19, they cannot have beers in a bar. They are underage.

If they drink routinely at 19, they are, in *fact*, compromising their brain development.

My normal, young adult does not drink in secret in basements.

My HS kids don't drink or smoke or vape. But once they graduate HS they aren't HS kids anymore. They might decide to enlist in the military. Is it reasonable that someone who is old enough to serve our country is not mature enough to decide whether or not to buy himself a beer to go along with his pizza?

Is it reasonable for me to expect that a young adult living away from home at college, feeding himself, doing his own laundry, getting himself to classes, possibly working PT - is not mature enough to go out to a bar with friends on a Friday night to play pool and have a few beers?

Is it reasonable for me to expect my young adult children to completely stay away from the party scene at college? What if they go to a party and drink reasonably responsibly but notice a young lady passed out on the floor, choking on her own vomit. Should they be afraid to call 911 because most of the people at the party are under 21?

I really, really think that we need to think long and hard about what our goal is. Maybe ask college aged young adults (18-20) who are living with this law right now what they think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the "flippant" poster.

So what?

You and the pp saying they would worry if their kid never got drunk are not normal. Sorry! But, the science is in and teens' brains do not mature until age 25. They are doing serious damage to their brain, liver, etc. and you should care. Sure, once isn't going to make someone an alcoholic but, you build up your tolerance for it and then you need more and more to get drunk.

Because you answered the way you did than your opinion is really meaningless and the op should ignore.

Well, when you send young, healthy adults to a university they are going to do what young, healthy adults do. And sometimes they will go to parties to socialize and there will be alcohol there. Not cake and ice cream, but alcohol. These are not HS teenagers being monitored by Mom and Dad anymore.

Infantalizing a 20 year old is more harmful - in my opinion - than allowing that kid to spread his wings, have fun, learn about life a little bit. Making it illegal for a HS grad to have a freakin' beer is ridiculous. Insisting that a person isn't really a grown up until they are 25 is sad to me.

Np here. ^pp must be a kid. Explaining health consequences is not infantilizing, he'll still make his own choices. And brain development ends at age 25, proven, has nothing to do with legal age. I think this ^one fried their brain cells already.

25 year old adults are not mentally children. Just because their brain development hasn't quite ended does not mean that they are not fully grown, functioning adults. Yes, they are still young and relatively inexperienced compared to, say, a 35 year old. But I can say the same thing about a 35 year old vs 55 year old.

We mature as we age. The average 18 year old is old enough to self monitor and make personal choices all by themselves. And the fact is, an 18 year old who wants to binge drink and drive drunk is already doing that. The law is not going to stop them.

Pp here. Brain development is not the same as maturation. How can you equate them? Maturation is at any age. Brain development means it it still physiologically forming/not done growing until age 25. It is the most important organ and is the last to finish developing and finish growing. Maturing is not the point. There is not difference at all in brain development between 35 & 55 because it isnt developing as it rises through those ages. In fact, it is decompensating through the older years, which is why you want to give it it's best shot to optimize and maximize through the younger years.

+1

The science is very clear on this. Drinking before the brain is mature *will* have a permanent negative impact on brain development. So will doing (other) drugs.

I don't expect my 19yo never to consume a beer prior to age 25 (although I would be happy if he made that choice). But I have emphasized to him over and over again that alcohol abuse (which includes getting drunk) will compromise his brain development. I have also told him that because we have alcoholism in the family, and because there is a genetic component to addictions, he needs to proceed with caution.

No one is saying that parents shouldn't talk to their kids about responsible drinking, maintaining their dignity, being respectful of others at parties, the consequences of alcohol poisoning, consent, STDs, NEVER drinking and driving etc. They should be having these talks regardless of what the minimum age law is.

But I do think that at 19 they are generally mature enough to go to walk to/from (or uber to/from or take the bus to/from) a bar, play darts and have a few beers with their friends.

Making the normal, young adult social scene illegal to the point where "kids" are drinking in secret in basements and afraid to call 911 if they see a friend pass out is really dumb and completely ineffective and even dangerous.

Hahaha, most aren't even mature enough to say "would you wear a condom"? Or I don't want oral sex because I don't want to risk cancer causing hpv. Most are learning games about maximum drunk in minimum time. These aren't kids sipping a beer at a cocktail party.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the "flippant" poster.

So what?

You and the pp saying they would worry if their kid never got drunk are not normal. Sorry! But, the science is in and teens' brains do not mature until age 25. They are doing serious damage to their brain, liver, etc. and you should care. Sure, once isn't going to make someone an alcoholic but, you build up your tolerance for it and then you need more and more to get drunk.

Because you answered the way you did than your opinion is really meaningless and the op should ignore.

Well, when you send young, healthy adults to a university they are going to do what young, healthy adults do. And sometimes they will go to parties to socialize and there will be alcohol there. Not cake and ice cream, but alcohol. These are not HS teenagers being monitored by Mom and Dad anymore.

Infantalizing a 20 year old is more harmful - in my opinion - than allowing that kid to spread his wings, have fun, learn about life a little bit. Making it illegal for a HS grad to have a freakin' beer is ridiculous. Insisting that a person isn't really a grown up until they are 25 is sad to me.

Np here. ^pp must be a kid. Explaining health consequences is not infantilizing, he'll still make his own choices. And brain development ends at age 25, proven, has nothing to do with legal age. I think this ^one fried their brain cells already.

25 year old adults are not mentally children. Just because their brain development hasn't quite ended does not mean that they are not fully grown, functioning adults. Yes, they are still young and relatively inexperienced compared to, say, a 35 year old. But I can say the same thing about a 35 year old vs 55 year old.

We mature as we age. The average 18 year old is old enough to self monitor and make personal choices all by themselves. And the fact is, an 18 year old who wants to binge drink and drive drunk is already doing that. The law is not going to stop them.

Pp here. Brain development is not the same as maturation. How can you equate them? Maturation is at any age. Brain development means it it still physiologically forming/not done growing until age 25. It is the most important organ and is the last to finish developing and finish growing. Maturing is not the point. There is not difference at all in brain development between 35 & 55 because it isnt developing as it rises through those ages. In fact, it is decompensating through the older years, which is why you want to give it it's best shot to optimize and maximize through the younger years.

+1

The science is very clear on this. Drinking before the brain is mature *will* have a permanent negative impact on brain development. So will doing (other) drugs.

I don't expect my 19yo never to consume a beer prior to age 25 (although I would be happy if he made that choice). But I have emphasized to him over and over again that alcohol abuse (which includes getting drunk) will compromise his brain development. I have also told him that because we have alcoholism in the family, and because there is a genetic component to addictions, he needs to proceed with caution.

No one is saying that parents shouldn't talk to their kids about responsible drinking, maintaining their dignity, being respectful of others at parties, the consequences of alcohol poisoning, consent, STDs, NEVER drinking and driving etc. They should be having these talks regardless of what the minimum age law is.

But I do think that at 19 they are generally mature enough to go to walk to/from (or uber to/from or take the bus to/from) a bar, play darts and have a few beers with their friends.

Making the normal, young adult social scene illegal to the point where "kids" are drinking in secret in basements and afraid to call 911 if they see a friend pass out is really dumb and completely ineffective and even dangerous.

At 19, they cannot have beers in a bar. They are underage.

If they drink routinely at 19, they are, in *fact*, compromising their brain development.

My normal, young adult does not drink in secret in basements.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the "flippant" poster.

So what?

You and the pp saying they would worry if their kid never got drunk are not normal. Sorry! But, the science is in and teens' brains do not mature until age 25. They are doing serious damage to their brain, liver, etc. and you should care. Sure, once isn't going to make someone an alcoholic but, you build up your tolerance for it and then you need more and more to get drunk.

Because you answered the way you did than your opinion is really meaningless and the op should ignore.

Well, when you send young, healthy adults to a university they are going to do what young, healthy adults do. And sometimes they will go to parties to socialize and there will be alcohol there. Not cake and ice cream, but alcohol. These are not HS teenagers being monitored by Mom and Dad anymore.

Infantalizing a 20 year old is more harmful - in my opinion - than allowing that kid to spread his wings, have fun, learn about life a little bit. Making it illegal for a HS grad to have a freakin' beer is ridiculous. Insisting that a person isn't really a grown up until they are 25 is sad to me.

Np here. ^pp must be a kid. Explaining health consequences is not infantilizing, he'll still make his own choices. And brain development ends at age 25, proven, has nothing to do with legal age. I think this ^one fried their brain cells already.

25 year old adults are not mentally children. Just because their brain development hasn't quite ended does not mean that they are not fully grown, functioning adults. Yes, they are still young and relatively inexperienced compared to, say, a 35 year old. But I can say the same thing about a 35 year old vs 55 year old.

We mature as we age. The average 18 year old is old enough to self monitor and make personal choices all by themselves. And the fact is, an 18 year old who wants to binge drink and drive drunk is already doing that. The law is not going to stop them.

Pp here. Brain development is not the same as maturation. How can you equate them? Maturation is at any age. Brain development means it it still physiologically forming/not done growing until age 25. It is the most important organ and is the last to finish developing and finish growing. Maturing is not the point. There is not difference at all in brain development between 35 & 55 because it isnt developing as it rises through those ages. In fact, it is decompensating through the older years, which is why you want to give it it's best shot to optimize and maximize through the younger years.

+1

The science is very clear on this. Drinking before the brain is mature *will* have a permanent negative impact on brain development. So will doing (other) drugs.

I don't expect my 19yo never to consume a beer prior to age 25 (although I would be happy if he made that choice). But I have emphasized to him over and over again that alcohol abuse (which includes getting drunk) will compromise his brain development. I have also told him that because we have alcoholism in the family, and because there is a genetic component to addictions, he needs to proceed with caution.

No one is saying that parents shouldn't talk to their kids about responsible drinking, maintaining their dignity, being respectful of others at parties, the consequences of alcohol poisoning, consent, STDs, NEVER drinking and driving etc. They should be having these talks regardless of what the minimum age law is.

But I do think that at 19 they are generally mature enough to go to walk to/from (or uber to/from or take the bus to/from) a bar, play darts and have a few beers with their friends.

Making the normal, young adult social scene illegal to the point where "kids" are drinking in secret in basements and afraid to call 911 if they see a friend pass out is really dumb and completely ineffective and even dangerous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the "flippant" poster.

So what?

You and the pp saying they would worry if their kid never got drunk are not normal. Sorry! But, the science is in and teens' brains do not mature until age 25. They are doing serious damage to their brain, liver, etc. and you should care. Sure, once isn't going to make someone an alcoholic but, you build up your tolerance for it and then you need more and more to get drunk.

Because you answered the way you did than your opinion is really meaningless and the op should ignore.

Well, when you send young, healthy adults to a university they are going to do what young, healthy adults do. And sometimes they will go to parties to socialize and there will be alcohol there. Not cake and ice cream, but alcohol. These are not HS teenagers being monitored by Mom and Dad anymore.

Infantalizing a 20 year old is more harmful - in my opinion - than allowing that kid to spread his wings, have fun, learn about life a little bit. Making it illegal for a HS grad to have a freakin' beer is ridiculous. Insisting that a person isn't really a grown up until they are 25 is sad to me.

Np here. ^pp must be a kid. Explaining health consequences is not infantilizing, he'll still make his own choices. And brain development ends at age 25, proven, has nothing to do with legal age. I think this ^one fried their brain cells already.

25 year old adults are not mentally children. Just because their brain development hasn't quite ended does not mean that they are not fully grown, functioning adults. Yes, they are still young and relatively inexperienced compared to, say, a 35 year old. But I can say the same thing about a 35 year old vs 55 year old.

We mature as we age. The average 18 year old is old enough to self monitor and make personal choices all by themselves. And the fact is, an 18 year old who wants to binge drink and drive drunk is already doing that. The law is not going to stop them.

Pp here. Brain development is not the same as maturation. How can you equate them? Maturation is at any age. Brain development means it it still physiologically forming/not done growing until age 25. It is the most important organ and is the last to finish developing and finish growing. Maturing is not the point. There is not difference at all in brain development between 35 & 55 because it isnt developing as it rises through those ages. In fact, it is decompensating through the older years, which is why you want to give it it's best shot to optimize and maximize through the younger years.

+1

The science is very clear on this. Drinking before the brain is mature *will* have a permanent negative impact on brain development. So will doing (other) drugs.

I don't expect my 19yo never to consume a beer prior to age 25 (although I would be happy if he made that choice). But I have emphasized to him over and over again that alcohol abuse (which includes getting drunk) will compromise his brain development. I have also told him that because we have alcoholism in the family, and because there is a genetic component to addictions, he needs to proceed with caution.

I am ok if my kids drink before 21 as long as they are responsible (no driving, no parties alone, not excessively drunk) and it's not interfering with their schoolwork.

For many Americans drinking in college (or even HS) is part of the culture, a rite of passage.

I do think the drinking age is inconsistent with age to drive or join the military. Make them all 18 or 21.

Thanks, pp for making my case!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the "flippant" poster.

So what?

You and the pp saying they would worry if their kid never got drunk are not normal. Sorry! But, the science is in and teens' brains do not mature until age 25. They are doing serious damage to their brain, liver, etc. and you should care. Sure, once isn't going to make someone an alcoholic but, you build up your tolerance for it and then you need more and more to get drunk.

Because you answered the way you did than your opinion is really meaningless and the op should ignore.

Well, when you send young, healthy adults to a university they are going to do what young, healthy adults do. And sometimes they will go to parties to socialize and there will be alcohol there. Not cake and ice cream, but alcohol. These are not HS teenagers being monitored by Mom and Dad anymore.

Infantalizing a 20 year old is more harmful - in my opinion - than allowing that kid to spread his wings, have fun, learn about life a little bit. Making it illegal for a HS grad to have a freakin' beer is ridiculous. Insisting that a person isn't really a grown up until they are 25 is sad to me.

Np here. ^pp must be a kid. Explaining health consequences is not infantilizing, he'll still make his own choices. And brain development ends at age 25, proven, has nothing to do with legal age. I think this ^one fried their brain cells already.

25 year old adults are not mentally children. Just because their brain development hasn't quite ended does not mean that they are not fully grown, functioning adults. Yes, they are still young and relatively inexperienced compared to, say, a 35 year old. But I can say the same thing about a 35 year old vs 55 year old.

We mature as we age. The average 18 year old is old enough to self monitor and make personal choices all by themselves. And the fact is, an 18 year old who wants to binge drink and drive drunk is already doing that. The law is not going to stop them.

Pp here. Brain development is not the same as maturation. How can you equate them? Maturation is at any age. Brain development means it it still physiologically forming/not done growing until age 25. It is the most important organ and is the last to finish developing and finish growing. Maturing is not the point. There is not difference at all in brain development between 35 & 55 because it isnt developing as it rises through those ages. In fact, it is decompensating through the older years, which is why you want to give it it's best shot to optimize and maximize through the younger years.

Anonymous wrote:This is the land of the free. I have taught my kids to think for themselves. If my 20 year old decides to have a beer then so be it, law or no law. Stupid laws should not be obeyed.

Yeah, i heard that defense works all the time in court. No problem.