Anonymous
12/28/2016 01:07
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it a little creepy. Maybe not "rapey" but the guy does seem a little smarmy, trying to talk her into staying with lame excuses.
I also dislike "we wish you a merry Christmas" because the people singing it demand that you bring them figgy pudding, and they won't go until they get some. Yeah, if you knock on my door and demand dessert and say you won't leave, I'm calling the cops.
Not every Christmas song is a winner.
You need to watch the original song.
A woman sings it to a man. She is the aggressor.
A man sings it to a woman. She is bantering and flirting with him.
Both of the originals are about women being empowered in an era where they were not allowed to be independent sexual beings.
This was created as a girl power type song, not a song about rape.
Now it's a female empowerment song. Really? Really? This is seriously the angle you're going for?
Different PP, liberal millennial woman. Yes I think it is. The fact that she's empowered to stay and flirt and let things get a little risqué and have everyone love the song was actually quite revolutionary.
If you listen to the song, actually listen not just read the lyrics, you can hear that she doesn't want to go, they're playing around with each other. She obviously wants to stay and is putting up half hearted excuses and he's never physical with her.
I'm all about affirmative consent but that isn't incompatible with this type of flirting and saying only affirmative consent is appropriate flirting isn't representative of how humans interact with each other. This type of fun back and forth is fine and something a lot of men and women enjoy. What is left out of this song and what we want to happen today is that when she finally says she'll stay the guy gets serious for a sec and says, 'hey are you sure?' And then she says 'yeah' while pulling him in for a kiss. But that part just happens after the song, they didn't do anything wrong here.
LOL. It's about super predatory, typical male behavior. There is nothing- and I mean NOTHING empowering about it. Get a grip.
Anonymous
12/28/2016 01:04
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Because it was written in a time when men and women respected each other
Anonymous
12/27/2016 13:22
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it a little creepy. Maybe not "rapey" but the guy does seem a little smarmy, trying to talk her into staying with lame excuses.
I also dislike "we wish you a merry Christmas" because the people singing it demand that you bring them figgy pudding, and they won't go until they get some. Yeah, if you knock on my door and demand dessert and say you won't leave, I'm calling the cops.
Not every Christmas song is a winner.
You need to watch the original song.
A woman sings it to a man. She is the aggressor.
A man sings it to a woman. She is bantering and flirting with him.
Both of the originals are about women being empowered in an era where they were not allowed to be independent sexual beings.
This was created as a girl power type song, not a song about rape.
Now it's a female empowerment song. Really? Really? This is seriously the angle you're going for?
Different PP, liberal millennial woman. Yes I think it is. The fact that she's empowered to stay and flirt and let things get a little risqué and have everyone love the song was actually quite revolutionary.
If you listen to the song, actually listen not just read the lyrics, you can hear that she doesn't want to go, they're playing around with each other. She obviously wants to stay and is putting up half hearted excuses and he's never physical with her.
I'm all about affirmative consent but that isn't incompatible with this type of flirting and saying only affirmative consent is appropriate flirting isn't representative of how humans interact with each other. This type of fun back and forth is fine and something a lot of men and women enjoy. What is left out of this song and what we want to happen today is that when she finally says she'll stay the guy gets serious for a sec and says, 'hey are you sure?' And then she says 'yeah' while pulling him in for a kiss. But that part just happens after the song, they didn't do anything wrong here.
Anonymous
12/27/2016 13:14
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Millennial super lefty here. I think people are ridiculous about this song.
They are flirting! And that's the thing about flirting, if you don't want to be flirted with it can be aggressive and creepy but if you're into it then it's coy playful and sexy.
This was written by a married couple, they were into it, it's sexy and fun.
They are flirting! And that's the thing about flirting, if you don't want to be flirted with it can be aggressive and creepy but if you're into it then it's coy playful and sexy.
This was written by a married couple, they were into it, it's sexy and fun.
Anonymous
12/27/2016 10:44
Subject: Re: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
There's a difference between acting inappropriately and rape.
if you are someone who thinks this "back and forth" type of behavior is not (or is/should no longer be) normal human courtship-the typical "chase" between a man and a woman-and you think this behavior is outdated and should stop-okay, you're welcome to your opinion).
But saying its "rape" is over the line.
Does the guy who cat-calls at a woman as she walks down the street commit rape? When? The first time he yells something crude? The second time? After she asks him to stop? The third time? The answer is never--its not rape. Its crude, its inappropriate-but don't lessen the seriousness of an actual violent crime by calling it "rapey".
"rapey" is a word that needs to go away. i've heard friends multiple times call a guy 'rapey" when he approaches at a bar and they think he's creepy. I've heard a friend even once call a CAR "rapey" (a van with blackened windows). The word creepy is not synonomous with rape.
if you are someone who thinks this "back and forth" type of behavior is not (or is/should no longer be) normal human courtship-the typical "chase" between a man and a woman-and you think this behavior is outdated and should stop-okay, you're welcome to your opinion).
But saying its "rape" is over the line.
Does the guy who cat-calls at a woman as she walks down the street commit rape? When? The first time he yells something crude? The second time? After she asks him to stop? The third time? The answer is never--its not rape. Its crude, its inappropriate-but don't lessen the seriousness of an actual violent crime by calling it "rapey".
"rapey" is a word that needs to go away. i've heard friends multiple times call a guy 'rapey" when he approaches at a bar and they think he's creepy. I've heard a friend even once call a CAR "rapey" (a van with blackened windows). The word creepy is not synonomous with rape.
Anonymous
12/27/2016 09:33
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, so not sure if someone has already mentioned this, but when listening to the song it's important to listen to the tone. The woman's tone is very playful and coy. No way is this a "rapey" song.
I understand that if you're ONLY considering the song in today's context, and are looking at the lyrics w/o regard for the tone, it could be suspect. But, context and tone are important to its interpretation.
I actually think this is a cute song, and I think the PC police went a little crazy here. And I say that as POC, woman, and very liberal Democrat.
Ummmm, yeah. Nobody is going to record a Christmas song with someone screaming for help. But people are saying that his refusal to take no as an answer, plus the "what's in this drink?" line which implies that she is drinking a strong cocktail hearkens back to an age where a) women needed an "excuse" to fool around and/or b) it was socially acceptable to try to give a woman drinks and pressure her to stay over against her better judgment.
PS - I actually LIKE the way the song sounds, but I understand what people are getting at.
Anonymous
12/27/2016 09:26
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
I haven't read the whole thread, so not sure if someone has already mentioned this, but when listening to the song it's important to listen to the tone. The woman's tone is very playful and coy. No way is this a "rapey" song.
I understand that if you're ONLY considering the song in today's context, and are looking at the lyrics w/o regard for the tone, it could be suspect. But, context and tone are important to its interpretation.
I actually think this is a cute song, and I think the PC police went a little crazy here. And I say that as POC, woman, and very liberal Democrat.
I understand that if you're ONLY considering the song in today's context, and are looking at the lyrics w/o regard for the tone, it could be suspect. But, context and tone are important to its interpretation.
I actually think this is a cute song, and I think the PC police went a little crazy here. And I say that as POC, woman, and very liberal Democrat.
Anonymous
12/27/2016 09:26
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
'I agree also. This kind of over-the-top PC culture is what got Donald Trump elected. Yes, rape is a big problem, but not every attempt to seduce a woman (and I'm not sure this song goes so far as a seduction) = rape.
"I voted for Trump and I think the song is rapey as hell. Not a fan."
Anonymous wrote:
"You don't like a song because you think it's about a man being sexually aggressive with a less-than-willing female, yet you support Trump? Do you see the contradiction here?"
+1. So, first PP, all that talk about p*ssy grabbing didn't trip your "rapey-as-hell-o-rometer?"[/quote]
I wondered the same thing!
Anonymous
12/27/2016 09:18
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
In the version I'm thinking of, the most common one, the lyrics feel dated because the man is not taking no for an answer even though the woman keeps trying. Nowadays it feels inappropriate to pressure someone so relentlessly. That's all, really.
Anonymous
12/27/2016 01:09
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it a little creepy. Maybe not "rapey" but the guy does seem a little smarmy, trying to talk her into staying with lame excuses.
I also dislike "we wish you a merry Christmas" because the people singing it demand that you bring them figgy pudding, and they won't go until they get some. Yeah, if you knock on my door and demand dessert and say you won't leave, I'm calling the cops.
Not every Christmas song is a winner.
You need to watch the original song.
A woman sings it to a man. She is the aggressor.
A man sings it to a woman. She is bantering and flirting with him.
Both of the originals are about women being empowered in an era where they were not allowed to be independent sexual beings.
This was created as a girl power type song, not a song about rape.
Now it's a female empowerment song. Really? Really? This is seriously the angle you're going for?
Yes.
It is originally about female.empowerment. Have you seen the original version of the song? Do you know anything about sexual freedom in the era the song was written?
How are some millenials so unable to process anything within historical context?
Anonymous
12/27/2016 00:38
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I find it a little creepy. Maybe not "rapey" but the guy does seem a little smarmy, trying to talk her into staying with lame excuses.
I also dislike "we wish you a merry Christmas" because the people singing it demand that you bring them figgy pudding, and they won't go until they get some. Yeah, if you knock on my door and demand dessert and say you won't leave, I'm calling the cops.
Not every Christmas song is a winner.
You need to watch the original song.
A woman sings it to a man. She is the aggressor.
A man sings it to a woman. She is bantering and flirting with him.
Both of the originals are about women being empowered in an era where they were not allowed to be independent sexual beings.
This was created as a girl power type song, not a song about rape.
Now it's a female empowerment song. Really? Really? This is seriously the angle you're going for?
Anonymous
12/27/2016 00:31
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:I find it a little creepy. Maybe not "rapey" but the guy does seem a little smarmy, trying to talk her into staying with lame excuses.
I also dislike "we wish you a merry Christmas" because the people singing it demand that you bring them figgy pudding, and they won't go until they get some. Yeah, if you knock on my door and demand dessert and say you won't leave, I'm calling the cops.
Not every Christmas song is a winner.
You need to watch the original song.
A woman sings it to a man. She is the aggressor.
A man sings it to a woman. She is bantering and flirting with him.
Both of the originals are about women being empowered in an era where they were not allowed to be independent sexual beings.
This was created as a girl power type song, not a song about rape.
Anonymous
12/27/2016 00:25
Subject: Re: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:Honestly as someone who experienced date rape, it drives me crazy when people call this song "rapey". This song is NOT what rape is like, in ANY sense. And I dont believe that there would be a single rape victim who would ever suggest that what they experienced sounds like this song.
"Rapey" is offensive. Rape is rape, there's no such thing as something being "rapey", its not an adjective, its a verb. A violent verb, not a playful banter.
Exactly!
Anonymous
12/27/2016 00:24
Subject: Re: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:Creepy, smarmy, lecherous....sure, use any of those words if you want. Personally I've had many of those "flirting" moments and it's lighthearted and fun in my mind.
But rape? No. just no. Not even close.
You've been creepy, smarmy, and lecherous?
Well, at least you own up to it, I guess. Be glad you weren't in college now- the old "Sorry I was lecherous, I was just really horny" argument doesn't go over so well anymore... to say the least...
Anonymous
12/27/2016 00:22
Subject: Can someone please explain to me why "baby it's cold outside" is about date rape?
Anonymous wrote:
'I agree also. This kind of over-the-top PC culture is what got Donald Trump elected. Yes, rape is a big problem, but not every attempt to seduce a woman (and I'm not sure this song goes so far as a seduction) = rape.
"I voted for Trump and I think the song is rapey as hell. Not a fan."
Anonymous wrote:
"You don't like a song because you think it's about a man being sexually aggressive with a less-than-willing female, yet you support Trump? Do you see the contradiction here?"
+1. So, first PP, all that talk about p*ssy grabbing didn't trip your "rapey-as-hell-o-rometer?"
'I agree also. This kind of over-the-top PC culture is what got Donald Trump elected. Yes, rape is a big problem, but not every attempt to seduce a woman (and I'm not sure this song goes so far as a seduction) = rape.
"I voted for Trump and I think the song is rapey as hell. Not a fan."
Anonymous wrote:
"You don't like a song because you think it's about a man being sexually aggressive with a less-than-willing female, yet you support Trump? Do you see the contradiction here?"
+1. So, first PP, all that talk about p*ssy grabbing didn't trip your "rapey-as-hell-o-rometer?"