Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 11:19     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
I don't think anyone's virgin-shaming here. But in this incidence, it is possible that had OP not been a virgin when she married, she'd have a better idea about how she wanted her sex life to be after marriage. I think it could be hard for a virgin to know if she/he had a high or low sex drive. And I think it's good when people with similar/compatible drives find each other, or they end up frustrated.

It's also possible that her husband, if he was also a virgin, had no idea what sort of drive he would have either.

They also wouldn't know whether they fit well sexually in the same way that people who have slept together would know. OP's husband might not be good in bed. He might have a tiny penis. He might be uninterested in pleasing her. These things might make her not want to have sex, at least not with him.

One downside of marrying a virgin: you might be restricting yourself to a pool of people in which some of those people are less interested in sex.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 10:49     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have had a below average sex life all along, and lately it's been pretty much nonexistent. I was a virgin when we married and honestly I have never really liked sex. He told me recently after an argument about sex that "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." What?? I know, he's not attacking me, so I don't want to say he's all rapey, and we actually get along quite well in other areas, but am I wrong to think that was a horrible thing to say? Do we give our bodies to our husbands when we marry them?


I find this very "rapey". No, he is not attacking you physically to get sex, but the basic definition of rape does not rest on sex by physical force. The definition of rape is sex without consent. The definition of consensual sex is "sex free from force, intimidation or coercion.". See here for a fuller definition of consensual sex.

http://www.bhsu.edu/FacultyStaff/HumanResources/TitleIXSexualMisconduct/ConsensualSex.aspx

By telling you that you agreed to give your body to him, what your husband is saying is that by marrying him, you consented to sex with him whenever and wherever he likes. Legally speaking, this is the very old (and now discredited) theory of marital consent to sex that was used to shield spouses from marital rape charges. In most, if not all, states marital rape can now be prosecuted and the marriage itself does not constitute some kind of universal lifelong consent to sex.

That said, I do believe that sex is a critical part of marriage. Options at this point are 1) therapy for you both to improve your sex life and negotiate how to communicate needs in a spirit of equity or 2) an open marriage or 3) divorce.


I totally disagree with this. OP's husband is basically saying that he interprets their marriage vows as including a promise that the relationship will be sexual. OP disagrees. I don't think that either party's view is necessarily unreasonable, and if their marriage is premised on a misunderstanding on this point, they either need to work through it or go their separate ways. But OP's husband's saying "I believe you promised to have sex with me" is not "rapey," nor has OP suggested he has been either coercive or intimidating on the point.


Except he didn't say, "I believed you promised to have sex with me." What OP says he said is, "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." When your body is "given" to someone else it becomes their possession, and they get to exercise decisions about how it will be used. Again, this is a very old-fashioned view that a woman's body belongs to the husband to do whatever he wishes with; a view that is so old-fashioned that it is no longer legal in that women are no longer considered the property of men who get to exercise decision-making (i.e. when to have or not have sex) on behalf of the woman.

Historically, women were given by fathers to husbands and considered pieces of property under the law. Viewed legally as property of men and culturally as too feeble-minded to make the "right' decisions, men made decisions about with whom a woman would or could have sex.

Life was once this way, but is no longer.

Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 09:49     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have had a below average sex life all along, and lately it's been pretty much nonexistent. I was a virgin when we married and honestly I have never really liked sex. He told me recently after an argument about sex that "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." What?? I know, he's not attacking me, so I don't want to say he's all rapey, and we actually get along quite well in other areas, but am I wrong to think that was a horrible thing to say? Do we give our bodies to our husbands when we marry them?


I was married in England and you do say as part of the vows "with my body I thee wed." It implies that sex is part of marriage. Sounds as if you have issues around sex and should be seeing either a sex or marriage therapist. If you can learn to enjoy sex, it will bring a level of intimacy to your marriage and joy to your life. All good wishes.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 09:39     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
OP, if you are not interested in the carnal side of things, you have no business being married. Okay, you were a virgin and didn't know better. Now you know. Be honest and get divorced. The end.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 09:28     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have had a below average sex life all along, and lately it's been pretty much nonexistent. I was a virgin when we married and honestly I have never really liked sex. He told me recently after an argument about sex that "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." What?? I know, he's not attacking me, so I don't want to say he's all rapey, and we actually get along quite well in other areas, but am I wrong to think that was a horrible thing to say? Do we give our bodies to our husbands when we marry them?


I find this very "rapey". No, he is not attacking you physically to get sex, but the basic definition of rape does not rest on sex by physical force. The definition of rape is sex without consent. The definition of consensual sex is "sex free from force, intimidation or coercion.". See here for a fuller definition of consensual sex.

http://www.bhsu.edu/FacultyStaff/HumanResources/TitleIXSexualMisconduct/ConsensualSex.aspx

By telling you that you agreed to give your body to him, what your husband is saying is that by marrying him, you consented to sex with him whenever and wherever he likes. Legally speaking, this is the very old (and now discredited) theory of marital consent to sex that was used to shield spouses from marital rape charges. In most, if not all, states marital rape can now be prosecuted and the marriage itself does not constitute some kind of universal lifelong consent to sex.

That said, I do believe that sex is a critical part of marriage. Options at this point are 1) therapy for you both to improve your sex life and negotiate how to communicate needs in a spirit of equity or 2) an open marriage or 3) divorce.


I totally disagree with this. OP's husband is basically saying that he interprets their marriage vows as including a promise that the relationship will be sexual. OP disagrees. I don't think that either party's view is necessarily unreasonable, and if their marriage is premised on a misunderstanding on this point, they either need to work through it or go their separate ways. But OP's husband's saying "I believe you promised to have sex with me" is not "rapey," nor has OP suggested he has been either coercive or intimidating on the point.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 09:19     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Can I just say this is a big reason why organized religion is bullshit. It's emotionally damaging to people who grow up this way. They're taught their whole lives sex is impure, dirty, unchaste and that they should try and tamper down any sexual thoughts. Oh but then they get married and are suddenly supposed to magical have a healthy approach to sex that's conducive to a marriage. Don't think so. So now these people have tied themselves to a lifetime of sexual incompatibility and strife because they insisted on adhering to some outdated set of standards. Congrats. What a prize.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 09:14     Subject: Re:"You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Interesting that people assume OP is low drive because she's said she doesn't like sex. She's only ever had sex with her husband. Maybe he's not good in bed.

Sounds like OP's husband needs to work on that.

Maybe she is bad in bed? You ever think of that? Sounds like OP needs to work on that!


Probably neither one of them are good in bed since they've only had eachother as partners and been sexually active for a few years. Thems the breaks when you hold onto virginity until marriage. Caveat emptor.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 09:12     Subject: Re:"You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:Interesting that people assume OP is low drive because she's said she doesn't like sex. She's only ever had sex with her husband. Maybe he's not good in bed.

Sounds like OP's husband needs to work on that.

Maybe she is bad in bed? You ever think of that? Sounds like OP needs to work on that!
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 09:08     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have had a below average sex life all along, and lately it's been pretty much nonexistent. I was a virgin when we married and honestly I have never really liked sex. He told me recently after an argument about sex that "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." What?? I know, he's not attacking me, so I don't want to say he's all rapey, and we actually get along quite well in other areas, but am I wrong to think that was a horrible thing to say? Do we give our bodies to our husbands when we marry them?


Why the hell else would a man want to get married?

Marriage is an EXPLICIT agreement - consent - to have sex. DUH!


So if consent is given at the altar, then that is blanket consent, and therefore there is no such thing as marital rape - since blanket consent was given at the wedding.

Is that right?


No, quit being deliberately obtuse. It's not consent to have sex even when one doesn't feel like it, all the time, no matter what. But it's an implicit agreement that in lieu of sex being pursued with others outside the marriage, sex WILL BE happening inside the marriage. If you cut that off without a damn good reason like cancer or some other debilitating illness, you have broken your vows as well. Don't then be surprised when your partner in turn breaks theirs by getting sex outside the marriage in which it is not occurring.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 08:55     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have had a below average sex life all along, and lately it's been pretty much nonexistent. I was a virgin when we married and honestly I have never really liked sex. He told me recently after an argument about sex that "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." What?? I know, he's not attacking me, so I don't want to say he's all rapey, and we actually get along quite well in other areas, but am I wrong to think that was a horrible thing to say? Do we give our bodies to our husbands when we marry them?


Why the hell else would a man want to get married?

Marriage is an EXPLICIT agreement - consent - to have sex. DUH!


So if consent is given at the altar, then that is blanket consent, and therefore there is no such thing as marital rape - since blanket consent was given at the wedding.

Is that right?


Legally, PP is wrong. Marriage does not constitute blanket consent for sex. Rape by a spouse is a crime in all 50 states and can and is regularly prosecuted.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 08:38     Subject: Re:"You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Well didn't she agree to give her body to him by waiting until she was married to him to lose her virginity? I.e. Giving him her virginity?
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 08:36     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have had a below average sex life all along, and lately it's been pretty much nonexistent. I was a virgin when we married and honestly I have never really liked sex. He told me recently after an argument about sex that "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." What?? I know, he's not attacking me, so I don't want to say he's all rapey, and we actually get along quite well in other areas, but am I wrong to think that was a horrible thing to say? Do we give our bodies to our husbands when we marry them?


Why the hell else would a man want to get married?

Marriage is an EXPLICIT agreement - consent - to have sex. DUH!


So if consent is given at the altar, then that is blanket consent, and therefore there is no such thing as marital rape - since blanket consent was given at the wedding.

Is that right?
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 08:18     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:Im certain that a large part of the reason your husband used that horribly creepy phrase is because you were a virgin when you married and he really got off on that aspect. People aren't "virgin shaming" you for pointing that out, it's pertinent to your question.


No I think he used that phrase because he's frustrated and also because they are both religious people who were raised in an environment where women are somewhat subservient to their husbands and he has internally processed that. That's how religion tends to work.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 07:52     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Anonymous wrote:My DH and I have had a below average sex life all along, and lately it's been pretty much nonexistent. I was a virgin when we married and honestly I have never really liked sex. He told me recently after an argument about sex that "when we got married you agreed to give your body to me." What?? I know, he's not attacking me, so I don't want to say he's all rapey, and we actually get along quite well in other areas, but am I wrong to think that was a horrible thing to say? Do we give our bodies to our husbands when we marry them?


I find this very "rapey". No, he is not attacking you physically to get sex, but the basic definition of rape does not rest on sex by physical force. The definition of rape is sex without consent. The definition of consensual sex is "sex free from force, intimidation or coercion.". See here for a fuller definition of consensual sex.

http://www.bhsu.edu/FacultyStaff/HumanResources/TitleIXSexualMisconduct/ConsensualSex.aspx

By telling you that you agreed to give your body to him, what your husband is saying is that by marrying him, you consented to sex with him whenever and wherever he likes. Legally speaking, this is the very old (and now discredited) theory of marital consent to sex that was used to shield spouses from marital rape charges. In most, if not all, states marital rape can now be prosecuted and the marriage itself does not constitute some kind of universal lifelong consent to sex.

That said, I do believe that sex is a critical part of marriage. Options at this point are 1) therapy for you both to improve your sex life and negotiate how to communicate needs in a spirit of equity or 2) an open marriage or 3) divorce.
Anonymous
Post 10/19/2016 07:13     Subject: "You agreed to give your body to me" What?
Im certain that a large part of the reason your husband used that horribly creepy phrase is because you were a virgin when you married and he really got off on that aspect. People aren't "virgin shaming" you for pointing that out, it's pertinent to your question.