Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is a big deal. DC offers free PK and surrounding counties do not-- that is HUGE incentive to cheat. One of the people profiled in that daily caller is a friend of mine. She (a PG county resident) said honestly that's what everyone she knows in her circle does and they don't (or didn't) consider it to be a big deal. Generations of her family lived or still live in DC and using their addresses is just very common, she told me.

I had to delete a FB post after that MPD case because the back-and-forth became too much for me. People that I grew up with---who now live in Md didn't seem to care or think they were doing anything wrong. The law is simply an inconvenience circumvented by manipulating a few documents. The fraud might be greater over here in Ward 8 ( at least at the preschool level) simply due to proximity. I see too many charter school uniforms from people that I know for a fact live in Maryland and don't fit into that category of hypothetical "what-ifs". Craziest thing is one of my interns told me about how rampant it is at his college. Apparently he knows quite a few students who graduated from Md high schools and are in there using DC TAG.

I don't believe this. It sounds like something made up and contrived to bolster a point. The dollars do not add up to forego in-state tuition for a measly $10,000 stipend that is not automatic every year. DC TAG is first come-first serve until the money runs out. So a student is not guaranteed the money every year. Below are tuition figures for some of the universities in the MD system. The first number is in-state tuition and the second is non-resident tuition. In-state tuition wins even when compared to a potential $10,000 stipend.

UMCP $9,996 $31,144
St Mary's $13,895 $28,745
UMBC $11,006 $23,790
Towson $8,590 $20,268
Bowie $7,299 $17,875
Morgan $7,508 $17,182
UMES $7,625 $16,687
Salisbury $6,712 $15,058

Wouldn't make sense to do it for a Maryland university. But a MD resident could potentially fraudulently use DC TAG money for school in any of the other 49 sites, one of the a private DC universities or an HBCU.

I find it hard to imagine, but if the child were enrolled in a DC high school that works with the CAP program to help kids get into college, the DC TAG application would be done almost pro forma.

Okay that works. But that means that the kid is a DC resident who attended a MD high school and paid out-of-state tuition. I used to know people who sent their kids to BCC and paid the tuition. It was cheaper than private. Otherwise, would not the TAG providers question a MD High School graduate when looking at their application? The application ask for proof of GD or HS graduation. DC TAG does not cover private universities, unless it's an HBCU like Spelman. And, private HBCU only receives $2,500 reduction with TAG not $10,000.

sorry. meant 'in any of the other 49 states' not sites

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is a big deal. DC offers free PK and surrounding counties do not-- that is HUGE incentive to cheat. One of the people profiled in that daily caller is a friend of mine. She (a PG county resident) said honestly that's what everyone she knows in her circle does and they don't (or didn't) consider it to be a big deal. Generations of her family lived or still live in DC and using their addresses is just very common, she told me.

I had to delete a FB post after that MPD case because the back-and-forth became too much for me. People that I grew up with---who now live in Md didn't seem to care or think they were doing anything wrong. The law is simply an inconvenience circumvented by manipulating a few documents. The fraud might be greater over here in Ward 8 ( at least at the preschool level) simply due to proximity. I see too many charter school uniforms from people that I know for a fact live in Maryland and don't fit into that category of hypothetical "what-ifs". Craziest thing is one of my interns told me about how rampant it is at his college. Apparently he knows quite a few students who graduated from Md high schools and are in there using DC TAG.

I don't believe this. It sounds like something made up and contrived to bolster a point. The dollars do not add up to forego in-state tuition for a measly $10,000 stipend that is not automatic every year. DC TAG is first come-first serve until the money runs out. So a student is not guaranteed the money every year. Below are tuition figures for some of the universities in the MD system. The first number is in-state tuition and the second is non-resident tuition. In-state tuition wins even when compared to a potential $10,000 stipend.

UMCP $9,996 $31,144
St Mary's $13,895 $28,745
UMBC $11,006 $23,790
Towson $8,590 $20,268
Bowie $7,299 $17,875
Morgan $7,508 $17,182
UMES $7,625 $16,687
Salisbury $6,712 $15,058

Wouldn't make sense to do it for a Maryland university. But a MD resident could potentially fraudulently use DC TAG money for school in any of the other 49 sites, one of the a private DC universities or an HBCU.

I find it hard to imagine, but if the child were enrolled in a DC high school that works with the CAP program to help kids get into college, the DC TAG application would be done almost pro forma.

I thought Maryland had better public schools? What's the motive to scam your children into DC schools? Is it to get into some premier charters or something?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how the proof of residency can be reasonably tweaked. Pay stubs and utility bills + a DC license are on the list of acceptable documentation.

Can't the rule specify that that pay stub or utility bill must include the address of the residence? That's what I had to provide for my driver's license renewal. So I could not use my cell phone bill but I could use my gas bill.

My federal government agency does not provide your residence address on your pay stub. It does however show DC taxes taken out, but w/o an address how do you prove your IB status?

Residency and IB status are too distinct things. Under current law, it's not at all clear if falsifying your IB status is even illegal, if you are a DC resident.

I'm willing to bet that you could make a good dent in the overcrowding problem at Deal, in particular, if you weeded out all of the fake in-boundary claims. Funny how many well-off families whose kids were at Key, Stoddert, and Mann magically end up at Deal for middle school despite Deal not accepting any out-of-boundary, non-feeder students. Should be allowable for Deal to identify families whose children went to non-feeder schools and then attempt to seek extra verification that they are actually living in-boundary instead of using someone else's address, using an address for an apartment that they own but rent out to someone else, or sitting on a vacant in-boundary efficiency apartment.

Is this an up to date claim? That this new school year in Deal there are many families that fit this description? Or are these comments referring blindly to several years ago...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is a big deal. DC offers free PK and surrounding counties do not-- that is HUGE incentive to cheat. One of the people profiled in that daily caller is a friend of mine. She (a PG county resident) said honestly that's what everyone she knows in her circle does and they don't (or didn't) consider it to be a big deal. Generations of her family lived or still live in DC and using their addresses is just very common, she told me.

I had to delete a FB post after that MPD case because the back-and-forth became too much for me. People that I grew up with---who now live in Md didn't seem to care or think they were doing anything wrong. The law is simply an inconvenience circumvented by manipulating a few documents. The fraud might be greater over here in Ward 8 ( at least at the preschool level) simply due to proximity. I see too many charter school uniforms from people that I know for a fact live in Maryland and don't fit into that category of hypothetical "what-ifs". Craziest thing is one of my interns told me about how rampant it is at his college. Apparently he knows quite a few students who graduated from Md high schools and are in there using DC TAG.

I don't believe this. It sounds like something made up and contrived to bolster a point. The dollars do not add up to forego in-state tuition for a measly $10,000 stipend that is not automatic every year. DC TAG is first come-first serve until the money runs out. So a student is not guaranteed the money every year. Below are tuition figures for some of the universities in the MD system. The first number is in-state tuition and the second is non-resident tuition. In-state tuition wins even when compared to a potential $10,000 stipend.

UMCP $9,996 $31,144
St Mary's $13,895 $28,745
UMBC $11,006 $23,790
Towson $8,590 $20,268
Bowie $7,299 $17,875
Morgan $7,508 $17,182
UMES $7,625 $16,687
Salisbury $6,712 $15,058

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure how the proof of residency can be reasonably tweaked. Pay stubs and utility bills + a DC license are on the list of acceptable documentation.

Can't the rule specify that that pay stub or utility bill must include the address of the residence? That's what I had to provide for my driver's license renewal. So I could not use my cell phone bill but I could use my gas bill.

My federal government agency does not provide your residence address on your pay stub. It does however show DC taxes taken out, but w/o an address how do you prove your IB status?

Residency and IB status are too distinct things. Under current law, it's not at all clear if falsifying your IB status is even illegal, if you are a DC resident.

I'm willing to bet that you could make a good dent in the overcrowding problem at Deal, in particular, if you weeded out all of the fake in-boundary claims. Funny how many well-off families whose kids were at Key, Stoddert, and Mann magically end up at Deal for middle school despite Deal not accepting any out-of-boundary, non-feeder students. Should be allowable for Deal to identify families whose children went to non-feeder schools and then attempt to seek extra verification that they are actually living in-boundary instead of using someone else's address, using an address for an apartment that they own but rent out to someone else, or sitting on a vacant in-boundary efficiency apartment.

http://dmv.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dmv/page_content/attachments/DC%20DMV%20Proof%20of%20Residency%20Form_Nov%202015.pdf

Any number is those could be created/forged. Also you're allowed to have an actual resident sign a non-notarized form certifying that you reside with them. Same thing with SNAP benefits--all the person has to do is write a letter saying that you live with them, but eat separately.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I read through their attachment and it doesn't seem to improve anything.

1) There doesn't seem to be any added incentive for schools to catch cheaters - and no punitive measures taken if they don't.

2) The proof of residency verification is still WAY too light. There should be a requirement of a utility bill and a pay stub and, frankly, a DC license.

Okay, can agree with the utility bill and even other requirements. You are not getting an address on a pay stub from a federal government worker and many private companies. I drive and have a license, but do you have any idea how many people in this city refuse or do not know how to drive, and thus do not own a DL? And with Uber and the red bicycles everywhere, yuck, that number is only growing.

They should require a DC DL or a DC ID card (issued by the DC government). Parents should be required to produce one or the other as proof of residency. In addition to the DL or ID, parents should be required to produce 2 utility bills.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The problem is the DC DMV makes it pretty easy to get a license: You must provide 2 of the documents listed below to satisfy proof of current District of Columbia residency. DC DMV will NOT accept documents that are not listed below to satisfy proof of DC residency.

NOTE: Source documents (2 required) must be original AND contain a valid DC address (PO boxes not acceptable). Computer printouts of online bills are considered original.

Utility bill (water, gas, electric, oil, or cable), with name and address, issued within the last 60 days (disconnect notices/bills are not accepted)
Telephone bill (cell phone, wireless, or pager bills acceptable), reflecting applicant's name and current address, issued within the last 60 days (disconnect notices/bills are not accepted)
Deed, mortgage, or settlement agreement reflecting applicant's name and property address issued within the last 60 days
Unexpired lease or rental agreement with the name of the applicant listed as the lessee, permitted resident, or renter (may be a photocopy). The unexpired lease or rental agreement must be signed by all parties.
DC property tax bill issued within the last 12 months reflecting the applicant's name and property address
Unexpired homeowner's or renter’s insurance policy reflecting name and address
**Letter with picture from Court Services and Offender Supervision Agency (CSOSA) or DC Department of Corrections (DC DOC) certifying name and DC residency issued within the last 60 days
*DC DMV proof of residency form signed by the certifier residing at the residence AND a copy of the certifier's unexpired DC Driver license or DC identification card AND 2 proof of residency documents (i.e., utility bill, telephone bill, etc.) in the certifier's name. The DC DMV proof of residency form is available at the link below:
DC DMV Proof of Residency Form
Bank/credit card/investment account statement issued within the last 60 days reflecting name and address
Official mail—received from ANY government agency (with full name and address) to include contents and envelope received within the last 60 days, excluding mail from DC DMV. DC DMV does not accept change of address forms from the United States Postal Service.
**DC DMV-approved form from certified social service provider
Medical bill issued within the last 60 days reflecting name and address. An Explanation of Benefits is not a medical bill and will not be accepted.
Student loan statement issued within the last 60 days reflecting name and address
Home line of equity statement issued within the last 60 days reflecting name and address
Car/personal loan statement (no coupon books/vouchers accepted) issued within the last 60 days reflecting name and address
Home security system bill issued within the last 60 days reflecting name and address.

4. We recommend that OSSE comply with the Act and
spend from the Residency Fund to support timely
investigations.
Pursuant to law, the Residency Fund shall be used to fund
enforcement activities concerning student residency verification. In
addition, OSSE requested in communications to DCPS and PCS that
an investigation be conducted within 30 days of tip referral. We
found that the Residency Fund had not been used and OSSE did not
have a budget for its planned use. We determined that investigations
generally took between 100 and 200 days. As a result of the lack of
investment in investigations, non-resident students may have taken
educational opportunities from eligible resident students during the
investigation period, which could extend into the subsequent school
year.
In conjunction with our testing, our research revealed that the
District’s investigative staff to student ratio was weak when
compared to certain jurisdictions. Particularly, one jurisdiction had
15 staff who investigated residency fraud for approximately 180,000
students and the other had 40 staff for approximately 150,000
students. It is important to note that in both cases the staff had other
duties such as investigating student attendance; however, the staff to
student ratio still outweighs the District’s even after reducing the
staff number in half. Figure 4 compares the student populations and
investigative staff of the District and the two neighboring
jurisdictions.
Comparison of Local Student Populations and Investigative
Staff
Jurisdiction # of Investigative
Staff # of Student Population
Neighboring School
District A 15 (part-time) ~180,000
Neighboring School
District B 40 (part-time) ~150,000
District of
Columbia
DCPS: 1 (full-time)
PCSB: contracted
private
investigator(s)
~46, 000 DCPS
~33,000 PCS
OSSE noted that they have not used the Residency Fund because it
was less than a year old. However, both PCSB and DCPS stated that it
was impossible to conduct investigations within 30 days given their
limited resources and staff relative to the number of allegations.
DCPS had only one full-time investigator and PCSB contracted with
an investigative firm on an as-needed basis.
Lack of investment
in residency fraud
investigations
resulted in
investigations on
average taking
longer than 100
days and in many
cases more than 200
days
Figure 4
The Residency Fund
had not been used
and OSSE did not
have a budget for its
planned use
Audit of Non-District Resident Students Enrolled in Public Schools
Office of the District of Columbia Auditor
September 30, 2013 Page 16
We recommend that OSSE establish a budget to expend funds from
the Residency Fund to support verification efforts such as
investigations. Allowing the Residency Fund to accumulate and not
be used for intended purposes, potentially increases the risk of
noncompliance with the Act and decreases the Program’s overall
effectiveness and efficiency

Anonymous wrote:Look, this is a big deal. DC offers free PK and surrounding counties do not-- that is HUGE incentive to cheat. One of the people profiled in that daily caller is a friend of mine. She (a PG county resident) said honestly that's what everyone she knows in her circle does and they don't (or didn't) consider it to be a big deal. Generations of her family lived or still live in DC and using their addresses is just very common, she told me.

I had to delete a FB post after that MPD case because the back-and-forth became too much for me. People that I grew up with---who now live in Md didn't seem to care or think they were doing anything wrong. The law is simply an inconvenience circumvented by manipulating a few documents. The fraud might be greater over here in Ward 8 ( at least at the preschool level) simply due to proximity. I see too many charter school uniforms from people that I know for a fact live in Maryland and don't fit into that category of hypothetical "what-ifs". Craziest thing is one of my interns told me about how rampant it is at his college. Apparently he knows quite a few students who graduated from Md high schools and are in there using DC TAG.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I read through their attachment and it doesn't seem to improve anything.

1) There doesn't seem to be any added incentive for schools to catch cheaters - and no punitive measures taken if they don't.

2) The proof of residency verification is still WAY too light. There should be a requirement of a utility bill and a pay stub and, frankly, a DC license.

Okay, can agree with the utility bill and even other requirements. You are not getting an address on a pay stub from a federal government worker and many private companies. I drive and have a license, but do you have any idea how many people in this city refuse or do not know how to drive, and thus do not own a DL? And with Uber and the red bicycles everywhere, yuck, that number is only growing.

The idea behind this is that they want to see DC taxes being taken out, which a federal stub would still show. But regardless at most companies it's FAR to easy to go online to the HR portal, change the address to DC, wait for a pay period, print it out, then change it back. They need to couple that with a utility bill or similar.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

That game is the same all around, we've had DC gov employees fired for residency preference issues (failure to maintain bonafide residence) and they often go into Peoplesoft and change their address whenever it suites them.

The pay stub is supposed to be dated +45 days from enrollment. If it showed virtually now DC taxes having been withheld to date that would be a flag the auditors could see when looking over the school's enrollment papers that would warrant follow up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I read through their attachment and it doesn't seem to improve anything.

1) There doesn't seem to be any added incentive for schools to catch cheaters - and no punitive measures taken if they don't.

2) The proof of residency verification is still WAY too light. There should be a requirement of a utility bill and a pay stub and, frankly, a DC license.

Okay, can agree with the utility bill and even other requirements. You are not getting an address on a pay stub from a federal government worker and many private companies. I drive and have a license, but do you have any idea how many people in this city refuse or do not know how to drive, and thus do not own a DL? And with Uber and the red bicycles everywhere, yuck, that number is only growing.

The idea behind this is that they want to see DC taxes being taken out, which a federal stub would still show. But regardless at most companies it's FAR to easy to go online to the HR portal, change the address to DC, wait for a pay period, print it out, then change it back. They need to couple that with a utility bill or similar.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

That game is the same all around, we've had DC gov employees fired for residency preference issues (failure to maintain bonafide residence) and they often go into Peoplesoft and change their address whenever it suites them.

Exactly.

With few parents in the owning-multiple-DC-residential-properties category (in the single digits) I can't see OSSE or school leaders coming at these folks. All they'd probably have to do to avoid being booted from a particularly DCPS is shift more belongings to their in-boundary property in anticipation of a home visit.

The city is much better off putting time, effort and resources into going at the (tens of?) thousands of parents who don't file income tax in DC. Our psychotic twat friend about to argue that I make this point as a boundary cheater deflecting attention.

We live across the street from IB school.