Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:29     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"

Approach in a more subtle manner.
Find a way to make it palatable for him.

You may want to focus on the priority, which is to have a relationships with your nephews, and inculcate responsibility and work ethic. You may want to give money directly to them when the time comes, so they can pay tuition instead of taking out loans! Changing their lifestyle while they're living in their step father's house (SAT prep, tutor, etc), might never be acceptable to him - unless you live close by, and they can come to your house to work, so he doesn't need to know.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:28     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here:

- I didn't say they should cut-off family, but for a working class student to REALLY grow, they need to broaden their horizons, go away to university, see the world, create some distance from home and the various working class distractions.

- They can get into college but I'm not going to flush tens of thousands of dollars down the drain on future drop outs.

- I -do- give him credit. But getting hostile about family who understands higher education trying to help prepare the boys for college is not credit-worthy.


So, I guess there's nothing more to discuss. They aren't going to be prepared in the way you want, so you won't be helping. They won't be broadening their horizons, going away to university (likely they will need to live at home and go to community college unless they take on significant debt), etc. Oh well.


Yes, I'll get to see my two layabout nephews every Christmas, slowly but surely turning into their biological father, wasted potential, maintaining those cyclical working class roots that are nearly impossible to disrupt. Yay!


OT, but I have a question: Why do you think they are going to turn into their biological father? It sounds like their mom is a reliable presence in their lives, their step-father is gainfully employed and is dutifully supporting his children and step-children (if not providing for their future education), their aunt and uncle are thriving. It sounds like their father is the (extreme) outlier here. Why would they end up like him as opposed to one of the other more successful people in their lives? Why do you look at them and see their father? That's a mighty big millstone you've placed around their necks.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:24     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

Yes, my sister certainly knows how to pick 'em. FYI, when it comes to FAFSA and college aid, *all* parents inc. step-parents are responsible.


This is not true. My son's biological father was not involved in the process and did not add any info to the form and it was accepted as is. If a parent is not in the picture they truly are not responsible. You really have zero idea how financial aid works.


I work for a university, so I have a decent handle on financial aid. It depends on the institution. At the very least the nephew will need to submit the tax return they are claimed on, which is the step-father who makes north of $100K. Many universities go above and beyond and request the student submit bio- and step-parent tax returns, assets, savings, retirement, etc. to a third party evaluator, e.g. College Board. $100K-plus is the frustrating middle class spot that's a little too high for the serious grants and scholarships, yet typically too low to be able to write a $25K-$75K check. At a good university, $100K-plus with 4 children will net the student a small grant and access to a lot of loans. Loans that will have to be co-signed by the breadwinner. Of course at Harvard $100K income nets the nephew nearly a full ride scholarship — but few colleges can afford to be anywhere near as generous.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:21     Subject: Re:Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:If you were my sister I'd tell you off. This is NONE of your f ing business. Oh and your humble brag about you and your husband means nothing. Except you are arrogant.


What part of her post was a humble brag? There was nothing humble about it.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:20     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here:

- I didn't say they should cut-off family, but for a working class student to REALLY grow, they need to broaden their horizons, go away to university, see the world, create some distance from home and the various working class distractions.

- They can get into college but I'm not going to flush tens of thousands of dollars down the drain on future drop outs.

- I -do- give him credit. But getting hostile about family who understands higher education trying to help prepare the boys for college is not credit-worthy.


So, I guess there's nothing more to discuss. They aren't going to be prepared in the way you want, so you won't be helping. They won't be broadening their horizons, going away to university (likely they will need to live at home and go to community college unless they take on significant debt), etc. Oh well.


Yes, I'll get to see my two layabout nephews every Christmas, slowly but surely turning into their biological father, wasted potential, maintaining those cyclical working class roots that are nearly impossible to disrupt. Yay!


If this bothers you so much, and you have the financial means, THEN HELP THEM. Invest in their futures. It is really that simple. Stop wringing your hands and howling at the moon, and definitely stop with your defeatist attitude.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:19     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:I'm not reading snobbery the way some of you others are. I think she's trying to be incredibly generous and asking reasonable questions about the boys' futures. I agree it's not her place to get involved in their family affairs, especially since it sounds like they are not interested in her offer. But I think pps are a bit harsh.

If I felt like my nieces or nephews were missing out on an opportunity that I could provide I would feel similarly. I don't think OP is trying to brag, just clarify that they are well off and in a position to contribute. Most of the posters on here are also probably similarly wealthy so really don't have a place to judge.

There's probably more too this - maybe the parents can't provide college tuition for that many kids. Maybe they expect them to do it on their own. Maybe they really think college is not a good investment. Who knows.

I agree with those saying OP should wait until the boys are 18 and then they can ask what their future plans include and go from there.


I get being sad about the nephew's situation. I get being angry at sister and BIL and deadbeat dad. I get being frustrated that things can't be different. I get wanting to help and feeling thwarted.

What I don't get is responding to that sadness/anger/frustration by deciding that there is clearly no hope for these boys, so there is no sense in investing any more effort and certainly not any money. That I don't get AT ALL.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:13     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:OP here:

- I didn't say they should cut-off family, but for a working class student to REALLY grow, they need to broaden their horizons, go away to university, see the world, create some distance from home and the various working class distractions.

- They can get into college but I'm not going to flush tens of thousands of dollars down the drain on future drop outs.

- I -do- give him credit. But getting hostile about family who understands higher education trying to help prepare the boys for college is not credit-worthy.


If you are worried that you will be flushing money, then stay out of it. Let them borrow boat-loads of money, and if they manage to get through college (by some miracle, in your estimation), you can then offer to help pay off loans. Of course, if they can't manage to get through, they will be sunk by their debt, but them's the breaks.

Or let them go to community college and cross your fingers that all works out.

You can't have it the way you want it, OP. They aren't your kids. So, as PP wrote above, you can play the hand you are dealt, or you can decide that they aren't worth investing in and you can fold.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:12     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:...but it sounds like on a day-to-day basis he is not a bad father figure? If that's true, he deserves respect for helping to raise his stepsons, not derision.


It's great he's provided a comfortable house and cars to drive to school... but that's where it ends. The kids would like to go to college, their mom would love it. But when uninformed parents lack understanding about college prep and refuse to fund, it doesn't give them a realistic shot to go. Of course we all know anecdotes, but these are children's lives, not a craps game. And when everything turns out as research predicts, he has his excuse teed up, "They're not mine. I gave them a great upbringing. A nice house, even cars!"

I also know his tune about paying for college will change when it's time for "his" kids.


I think you are the one who is out of touch if you think someone who does not take an SAT class and does not have a 529 just cannot go to college. maybe not to Yale, but spend some time at Montgomery College sometime.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:10     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
I'm not reading snobbery the way some of you others are. I think she's trying to be incredibly generous and asking reasonable questions about the boys' futures. I agree it's not her place to get involved in their family affairs, especially since it sounds like they are not interested in her offer. But I think pps are a bit harsh.

If I felt like my nieces or nephews were missing out on an opportunity that I could provide I would feel similarly. I don't think OP is trying to brag, just clarify that they are well off and in a position to contribute. Most of the posters on here are also probably similarly wealthy so really don't have a place to judge.

There's probably more too this - maybe the parents can't provide college tuition for that many kids. Maybe they expect them to do it on their own. Maybe they really think college is not a good investment. Who knows.

I agree with those saying OP should wait until the boys are 18 and then they can ask what their future plans include and go from there.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:10     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here:

- I didn't say they should cut-off family, but for a working class student to REALLY grow, they need to broaden their horizons, go away to university, see the world, create some distance from home and the various working class distractions.

- They can get into college but I'm not going to flush tens of thousands of dollars down the drain on future drop outs.

- I -do- give him credit. But getting hostile about family who understands higher education trying to help prepare the boys for college is not credit-worthy.


So, I guess there's nothing more to discuss. They aren't going to be prepared in the way you want, so you won't be helping. They won't be broadening their horizons, going away to university (likely they will need to live at home and go to community college unless they take on significant debt), etc. Oh well.


Yes, I'll get to see my two layabout nephews every Christmas, slowly but surely turning into their biological father, wasted potential, maintaining those cyclical working class roots that are nearly impossible to disrupt. Yay!
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:06     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:OP here:

- I didn't say they should cut-off family, but for a working class student to REALLY grow, they need to broaden their horizons, go away to university, see the world, create some distance from home and the various working class distractions.

- They can get into college but I'm not going to flush tens of thousands of dollars down the drain on future drop outs.

- I -do- give him credit. But getting hostile about family who understands higher education trying to help prepare the boys for college is not credit-worthy.


So, I guess there's nothing more to discuss. They aren't going to be prepared in the way you want, so you won't be helping. They won't be broadening their horizons, going away to university (likely they will need to live at home and go to community college unless they take on significant debt), etc. Oh well.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 15:05     Subject: Re:Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
I've seen their scores and report cards and obviously they've been over and converse with my children. They show promise and are on the cusp of being prepared for college. On current track they'll get in, but anyone can get into college. They'd be high-risk future dropouts. Further, they have no way to pay for it - I don't even know how they'd pay for a junior college.

For anyone familiar with Richard Hoggart, he and Richard Rodriguez wrote about being a "scholarship boy." Basically the need for a first-gen working class student to distance themselves from anti-education family and embrace the university. College away from home is the ticket out of the trap multiple generations of their family are caught up in.



Okay, so you think they can get into college. And you can afford to help pay for college. So why, exactly, are you so stressed out?[b]
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 14:58     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:I'm taking OP's side in this. You are an amazing aunt OP and any kid would love to have an aunt so caring and willing to step up!


OP IS an amazing aunt, but her goals are odd. Social mobility? She's disparaging these kids and their parents all in the name of making herself look like some sort of saint which just makes it sounds like she's ashamed of them.
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 14:56     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
I'm taking OP's side in this. You are an amazing aunt OP and any kid would love to have an aunt so caring and willing to step up!
Anonymous
Post 09/02/2016 14:54     Subject: Sister's husband has $0 in college fund for my nephews - tells me to "back off"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:BIL makes decent money without going to college, but your nephews are doomed to be deadbeats?

Your title complains that BIL doesn't have money for the nephews college - why are you not complaining about your sister or their dad (the two adults biologically related and primarily responsible for them).

I think you should be pissed more at your sister than your BIL. Still, there's nothing for you to do here. They don't want your help. It's unfortunate because you sound as if you are attempting to be kind, but they don't want your help.


BIL is a layoff away from being bankrupt. He has no leverage to get raises. He hates his job. The 1990s =/= 2017-2020

Yes, my sister certainly knows how to pick 'em. FYI, when it comes to FAFSA and college aid, *all* parents inc. step-parents are responsible.


This is not true. My son's biological father was not involved in the process and did not add any info to the form and it was accepted as is. If a parent is not in the picture they truly are not responsible. You really have zero idea how financial aid works.