Anonymous
03/13/2017 23:27
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
FYI: in Maryland, parents of children with severe mental illness or disabilities that need care that the parents can't provide can enter into a Voluntary Placement Agreement with Child Welfare. There is NO finding of abuse or neglect. The agreement must be approved by a judge every 6 months and parents pay child support. CWS places the child residentially in an appropriate placement: RTC, therapeutic group home, etc. The parents do not lose guardianship of the child.
A much better alternative hopefully than "re-homing".
A much better alternative hopefully than "re-homing".
Anonymous
03/13/2017 19:58
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Parents of severely disturbed children are increasingly surrendering them to the state to get mental health care. This is an issue even with biological children.
Anonymous
03/13/2017 19:26
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am not naïve enough to believe that the kids are being rehomed because the kid is 'defective'. I believe that in many cases the 'adoptive parents' are defective.
But on this adoption forum that seems to be a topic nobody wants to ever address.
Adoption agency is supposed to find parents for children, not trade children to anyone who meets the requirements and is willing to throw money in their direction
Defective is really not a good word to describe the situation. IMO and experience, there are a number of factors at play. Prospective adoptive parents are not well educated. PAPs are well educated but believe that the really bad things can't or won't happen to them. PAPs believe that even if the really bad things happen, they will be able to handle it. Really bad things do happen - attachment problems, RAD, FASD, severe behavior problems, drug use and prostitution, etc. APs find that they can't handle the really difficult problems. There is not enough support for APs when the really bad things happen. Adequate services don't exist. No one really knows what to do in many situations, not even the professionals.
I know my experience is anecdotal, but being involved in a community of people who adopted from Eastern European countries, I have seen families deal with a lot of very difficult problems. In every situation, the APs have worked very hard to find solutions to the difficult situations (and when I use the term difficult, I mean situations that most people can't even comprehend) that people find themselves in. None of these families went into adoption believing they were getting the perfect kid or believing that they would not be capable of handling the situation. The amount of time and money they spend trying to find solutions is astounding and the lack of available resources is heartbreaking. In so many situations (probably most), these professionals that people are talking about turning to for solutions and help have no idea what to do.
Re-homing is a last resort. It is an option, but I know very few people who have turned to it. Even then, it was after exhausting every other option and all of their savings - no, insurance and the government don't help. These are not medical problems, they are behavioral. And traditional therapy and medication doesn't help. So, insurance isn't covering the cost. Families are torn apart, threatened, seriously physically injured, etc. The child themselves may be a risk to themselves and others.
When you read the profiles of the kids on the re-homing page, I'm sure you noticed that some say things like child should not have pets, child should not have younger siblings, child should not be placed with a single woman but a single man would be fine, child should be an only child, etc. There is a reason that these parameters are set and it likely has nothing to do with preferring a male parent, being afraid of dogs or typical sibling rivalry.
Adoption is not an easy process. When I went through it, not only did I have to have a home study annually and be followed for three years for post placement visits, but I also had to have 28 hours of education for one of my adoptions and 40 for another. My adoptions cost more than the down payment on my house (total, not each one) because you get days notice of travel and are paying top dollar for your airfare and accommodations, plus eating out for weeks at a time in a foreign country. People who are willing to commit to this process aren't taking the decision to relinquish their child lightly.
And, last thing. Just because you put your child up for placement does not mean you are able to relinquish the financial responsibilities. Until parental rights are terminated, the AP remains responsible for the cost of the child's care unless someone else steps in to pay.
What a nightmare story. Definitely sounds like the agency just wanted to find children for parents, not find the right parents for the child
Can you be more specific, are these Romanian orphanage kids from Caucescu era. How did the agency prepare the families for life post adoption? Was it just how to get the paperwork done?
Anonymous
03/13/2017 18:49
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:I am not naïve enough to believe that the kids are being rehomed because the kid is 'defective'. I believe that in many cases the 'adoptive parents' are defective.
But on this adoption forum that seems to be a topic nobody wants to ever address.
Adoption agency is supposed to find parents for children, not trade children to anyone who meets the requirements and is willing to throw money in their direction
At least in the case of the child who has been with the family for 10 years, I certainly agree with you. The fact that the bio mentions she was in a home with an older sibling seems like code for "this kid was abused by an older sibling, but we're getting rid of her rather than facing the fact that older child is a rapist."
Anonymous
03/12/2017 18:33
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:HOLY FUCK. There's a girl there being rehomed who has been with her current family for a decade.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE??!!!
I can't believe this is legal.
What do you mean you can't believe this is legal?
It's a private adoption and it's available to any parent in the US. A parent/parents can choose to place their child at any time via private adoption and there is no age limit. This can be their own biological child or a child they adopted.
In my family, we are dealing with a father who has primary custody. Divorce agreement stipulated that mother can see children, but is not financially responsible for them in any way. Mother is broke, and this state is not kind to former SAHMs in divorce, no matter what MRAs tell you. She got nothing after over a decade of marriage.
Anyway, father kicks out Child, Child moves in with relative, Father doesn't pay a dime for the care of Child. Legal counsel tells Relative, in effect, that parents have no obligation to their children. They can't be punished or fined for not paying a cent or housing them, absent a court ordered divorce agreement. Rarely, vanishingly rarely are parents even charged criminally for severe torture and abuse.
This is not true. The relative if the child is under 18 can file for legal guardianship and/or child support.
Anonymous
03/12/2017 11:39
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:HOLY FUCK. There's a girl there being rehomed who has been with her current family for a decade.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE??!!!
I can't believe this is legal.
What do you mean you can't believe this is legal?
It's a private adoption and it's available to any parent in the US. A parent/parents can choose to place their child at any time via private adoption and there is no age limit. This can be their own biological child or a child they adopted.
In my family, we are dealing with a father who has primary custody. Divorce agreement stipulated that mother can see children, but is not financially responsible for them in any way. Mother is broke, and this state is not kind to former SAHMs in divorce, no matter what MRAs tell you. She got nothing after over a decade of marriage.
Anyway, father kicks out Child, Child moves in with relative, Father doesn't pay a dime for the care of Child. Legal counsel tells Relative, in effect, that parents have no obligation to their children. They can't be punished or fined for not paying a cent or housing them, absent a court ordered divorce agreement. Rarely, vanishingly rarely are parents even charged criminally for severe torture and abuse.
Anonymous
03/12/2017 10:20
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:HOLY FUCK. There's a girl there being rehomed who has been with her current family for a decade.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE??!!!
I can't believe this is legal.
What do you mean you can't believe this is legal?
It's a private adoption and it's available to any parent in the US. A parent/parents can choose to place their child at any time via private adoption and there is no age limit. This can be their own biological child or a child they adopted.
Anonymous
03/12/2017 10:09
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:I am not naïve enough to believe that the kids are being rehomed because the kid is 'defective'. I believe that in many cases the 'adoptive parents' are defective.
But on this adoption forum that seems to be a topic nobody wants to ever address.
Adoption agency is supposed to find parents for children, not trade children to anyone who meets the requirements and is willing to throw money in their direction
you are being extremely naive. These kids have serious problems, the kind you hear about where the adoptive parents can't leave them alone or they till try to kill their sibling or burn down the house. The original adoptive parents are not equipped to handle these issues, for whatever reason. Full stop. That's a tragedy but it's also the reality that needs to be faced straight on an dealt with if any of these kids are going to have a chance.
Anonymous
03/12/2017 09:54
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:I am not naïve enough to believe that the kids are being rehomed because the kid is 'defective'. I believe that in many cases the 'adoptive parents' are defective.
But on this adoption forum that seems to be a topic nobody wants to ever address.
Adoption agency is supposed to find parents for children, not trade children to anyone who meets the requirements and is willing to throw money in their direction
Defective is really not a good word to describe the situation. IMO and experience, there are a number of factors at play. Prospective adoptive parents are not well educated. PAPs are well educated but believe that the really bad things can't or won't happen to them. PAPs believe that even if the really bad things happen, they will be able to handle it. Really bad things do happen - attachment problems, RAD, FASD, severe behavior problems, drug use and prostitution, etc. APs find that they can't handle the really difficult problems. There is not enough support for APs when the really bad things happen. Adequate services don't exist. No one really knows what to do in many situations, not even the professionals.
I know my experience is anecdotal, but being involved in a community of people who adopted from Eastern European countries, I have seen families deal with a lot of very difficult problems. In every situation, the APs have worked very hard to find solutions to the difficult situations (and when I use the term difficult, I mean situations that most people can't even comprehend) that people find themselves in. None of these families went into adoption believing they were getting the perfect kid or believing that they would not be capable of handling the situation. The amount of time and money they spend trying to find solutions is astounding and the lack of available resources is heartbreaking. In so many situations (probably most), these professionals that people are talking about turning to for solutions and help have no idea what to do.
Re-homing is a last resort. It is an option, but I know very few people who have turned to it. Even then, it was after exhausting every other option and all of their savings - no, insurance and the government don't help. These are not medical problems, they are behavioral. And traditional therapy and medication doesn't help. So, insurance isn't covering the cost. Families are torn apart, threatened, seriously physically injured, etc. The child themselves may be a risk to themselves and others.
When you read the profiles of the kids on the re-homing page, I'm sure you noticed that some say things like child should not have pets, child should not have younger siblings, child should not be placed with a single woman but a single man would be fine, child should be an only child, etc. There is a reason that these parameters are set and it likely has nothing to do with preferring a male parent, being afraid of dogs or typical sibling rivalry.
Adoption is not an easy process. When I went through it, not only did I have to have a home study annually and be followed for three years for post placement visits, but I also had to have 28 hours of education for one of my adoptions and 40 for another. My adoptions cost more than the down payment on my house (total, not each one) because you get days notice of travel and are paying top dollar for your airfare and accommodations, plus eating out for weeks at a time in a foreign country. People who are willing to commit to this process aren't taking the decision to relinquish their child lightly.
And, last thing. Just because you put your child up for placement does not mean you are able to relinquish the financial responsibilities. Until parental rights are terminated, the AP remains responsible for the cost of the child's care unless someone else steps in to pay.
Anonymous
03/12/2017 08:09
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
I am not naïve enough to believe that the kids are being rehomed because the kid is 'defective'. I believe that in many cases the 'adoptive parents' are defective.
But on this adoption forum that seems to be a topic nobody wants to ever address.
Adoption agency is supposed to find parents for children, not trade children to anyone who meets the requirements and is willing to throw money in their direction
But on this adoption forum that seems to be a topic nobody wants to ever address.
Adoption agency is supposed to find parents for children, not trade children to anyone who meets the requirements and is willing to throw money in their direction
Anonymous
03/11/2017 21:51
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:You are talking about what you think people SHOULD do. There is no mechanism to make them do it.
Is your plan to make rehoming illegal, even legal second adoptions, without the government providing all the support services you describe like the idea behind making abortion illegal without increasing government subsidies for contraception and childcare?
I can tell you it will have the same result. You.won't reduce the number of families with failed adoptions. You'll just force even more of them into an illegal, unregulated rehoming system, or watch more kids get abused or even killed.
Rhyming happens either way as people find ways around the rules and laws. When you adopt you are told issues may come up and you are agreeing to meet that child's needs. It is not the governments respinsibility. Once you adopt you are that child's parent. Adoption has little to do with it. As a paren, you pay for your child's needs and that includes therapy for you when you need support with your child's needs. In theory courts could force it as its part of what you Agee to when you adopt.
Anonymous
03/11/2017 21:05
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
You are talking about what you think people SHOULD do. There is no mechanism to make them do it.
Is your plan to make rehoming illegal, even legal second adoptions, without the government providing all the support services you describe like the idea behind making abortion illegal without increasing government subsidies for contraception and childcare?
I can tell you it will have the same result. You.won't reduce the number of families with failed adoptions. You'll just force even more of them into an illegal, unregulated rehoming system, or watch more kids get abused or even killed.
Is your plan to make rehoming illegal, even legal second adoptions, without the government providing all the support services you describe like the idea behind making abortion illegal without increasing government subsidies for contraception and childcare?
I can tell you it will have the same result. You.won't reduce the number of families with failed adoptions. You'll just force even more of them into an illegal, unregulated rehoming system, or watch more kids get abused or even killed.
Anonymous
03/11/2017 20:49
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:HOLY FUCK. There's a girl there being rehomed who has been with her current family for a decade.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE??!!!
I can't believe this is legal.
How is it better to leave her in a home with people who are almost certainly not treating her well?
These are tragic situations, but what is your actual happy ending solution?
Provide post adoption counseling and support, especially for those with international, older child and foster care adoptions for several years after the adoption and continue till 18 if a family needs it. These families would not give away their biological children so there is no excuse to give the ones who they adopted. Many have a rescue complex and do it for religious or other needs and those kids cannot live up to their unrealistic expectations. Many of the kids don't get counseling which is vital to older kids.
What is your real life solution for families in this situation right now?
Real life is get the kids and families counseling. Get the kids evaluated for mental health, medical and academic issues. Get a behaverialist in to work with parents and kids. Get the kids Iep and services at school and private after school. Many of these parents are unwilling to do those things that the rest of us do to make our kids successful. Parents need to learn to parent these kids. They need to stick it out till 18. If it is bad, you get them to a residential treatment center or group care.
No good comes from forcing a family to keep a child they realize they are not equipped to care for. I can't believe you think these children will grow up to be successful adults if their original adoptive family keeps them. Forcing it and providing services (which really don't exist as you seem to believe) is not going to make the child feel loved or any less rejected.
I for one have always believed that one of the best things that ever happened to my child was being re-homed with me. But make no mistake, as motivated as I was, making it work was one of the most difficult things I ever did.
OK, but who is going to make them do all this? Or pay for it? You seem to be suggesting that somehow we change the parents or what?
Not to mention, how can you believe residential care would be better than another family? Now you really are being absurd.
Parents and health insurance pays for it, just like you would do for a biological child. How is it any different? Yes, residential care would be far better than another family. The other family may not be equip and the child still has the same behaviors and issues, which will go most likely untreated at the next family. You get the child the help they need so they can be a part of the family. We have a SN child, whom we adopted. We were told healthy newborn. Crap happens. We've spent a small fortune on our child and I wouldn't think twice if i had to do it all over again. Adoption or not, that is my child, whom I'm devoted to. I have given up my career so I can take her to her therapies and appointments. My husband changed his career so he'd make more money to make up for mine and pay for it all. There wasn't even a question of what or if we'd do it. We did what was best for our child. You don't give up and walk away regardless of birth or adoption. You figure out how best to help your child and get the help. We've traveled to specialists across the country to make sure we are doing it right. You shouldn't have to make someone do it. They should do it as parents as its in their child's best interests. If their parenting isn't working, as a parent, you regroup and say, how can I do better for my child. You never ever give them away. That is why these kids have attachments and behavioral issues. Those parents should never have been allowed to adopt.
Anonymous
03/11/2017 20:09
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Provide post adoption counseling and support, especially for those with international, older child and foster care adoptions for several years after the adoption and continue till 18 if a family needs it. These families would not give away their biological children so there is no excuse to give the ones who they adopted. Many have a rescue complex and do it for religious or other needs and those kids cannot live up to their unrealistic expectations. Many of the kids don't get counseling which is vital to older kids.
If you are not in it for the long haul, just as you would be for your "real" children, don't adopt. Walk far, far away. Adopted people did not have a say on who they received as parents, and the loss of the first parents is traumatic enough, even as newborns. To lose the second set, who claimed that they were going to be there for life, is unconscionable. Rehoming should be made illegal by ALL states in the U.S. This black-market system leaves children vulnerable to pedophiles. Adoption agenices, who could really care less who adopts as long as they get their money, and these loser APs should face criminal charges and a requirement to financially care for that child until adulthood.
Anonymous
03/11/2017 16:27
Subject: what's the easiest way to adopt a healthy older child?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:HOLY FUCK. There's a girl there being rehomed who has been with her current family for a decade.
WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE??!!!
I can't believe this is legal.
How is it better to leave her in a home with people who are almost certainly not treating her well?
These are tragic situations, but what is your actual happy ending solution?
Provide post adoption counseling and support, especially for those with international, older child and foster care adoptions for several years after the adoption and continue till 18 if a family needs it. These families would not give away their biological children so there is no excuse to give the ones who they adopted. Many have a rescue complex and do it for religious or other needs and those kids cannot live up to their unrealistic expectations. Many of the kids don't get counseling which is vital to older kids.
What is your real life solution for families in this situation right now?
Real life is get the kids and families counseling. Get the kids evaluated for mental health, medical and academic issues. Get a behaverialist in to work with parents and kids. Get the kids Iep and services at school and private after school. Many of these parents are unwilling to do those things that the rest of us do to make our kids successful. Parents need to learn to parent these kids. They need to stick it out till 18. If it is bad, you get them to a residential treatment center or group care.
No good comes from forcing a family to keep a child they realize they are not equipped to care for. I can't believe you think these children will grow up to be successful adults if their original adoptive family keeps them. Forcing it and providing services (which really don't exist as you seem to believe) is not going to make the child feel loved or any less rejected.
I for one have always believed that one of the best things that ever happened to my child was being re-homed with me. But make no mistake, as motivated as I was, making it work was one of the most difficult things I ever did.
OK, but who is going to make them do all this? Or pay for it? You seem to be suggesting that somehow we change the parents or what?
Not to mention, how can you believe residential care would be better than another family? Now you really are being absurd.