Anonymous
Post 08/28/2016 08:35     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As this thread clearly illustrates, bullying never stops. Kids do it and adults do to. You will find it in every socio economic level, in every religion and in every race. Human beings are social primates who construct elaborate and complex social hierarchies based on an ever changing matrix. Kids take turns trying out "power" and can be cruel. Then they will be nice. Then they may become Goth. I don't know, they are kids, they try stuff.

to think any school can 100% rule out any type of bullying or unfairness or unkindness is unrealistic. Even at (GOOD GOD why is the tuition so high) private schools.


There are a number of explicit schoolwide anti bullying initiatives used in public schools including high ses schools. The academic journals make it pretty clear these programs are effective. I fear no private in this area can be the first mover into these programs as it would take only a second for social media to broadcast the bullying crisis at school X.


Some schools, like Beauvoir, take a more proactive approach, and so are in less need of a specific "bullying initiative." The Beauvoir Life Rules serve as the foundation of an education that focuses not just on grades and academics, but also social skills, social responsibility, emotional intelligence, and what it means to be a member of a community. This is why Beauvoir has been able to limit bullying.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 21:43     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:As this thread clearly illustrates, bullying never stops. Kids do it and adults do to. You will find it in every socio economic level, in every religion and in every race. Human beings are social primates who construct elaborate and complex social hierarchies based on an ever changing matrix. Kids take turns trying out "power" and can be cruel. Then they will be nice. Then they may become Goth. I don't know, they are kids, they try stuff.

to think any school can 100% rule out any type of bullying or unfairness or unkindness is unrealistic. Even at (GOOD GOD why is the tuition so high) private schools.


There are a number of explicit schoolwide anti bullying initiatives used in public schools including high ses schools. The academic journals make it pretty clear these programs are effective. I fear no private in this area can be the first mover into these programs as it would take only a second for social media to broadcast the bullying crisis at school X.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 16:12     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
As this thread clearly illustrates, bullying never stops. Kids do it and adults do to. You will find it in every socio economic level, in every religion and in every race. Human beings are social primates who construct elaborate and complex social hierarchies based on an ever changing matrix. Kids take turns trying out "power" and can be cruel. Then they will be nice. Then they may become Goth. I don't know, they are kids, they try stuff.

to think any school can 100% rule out any type of bullying or unfairness or unkindness is unrealistic. Even at (GOOD GOD why is the tuition so high) private schools.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 15:38     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think I see the problem. If your kid is excluded at a public school you shrug and go, that's public school, what more do you expect. But then some of you pay $40k a year for school and think that will somehow buy your kid's way out of shit like that only to get pissed when it doesn't. Because damn, you can be excluded for free in public school.


No, it's not about buying your way out. The fact is that public and private have different options in responding to bullying, and private can be much more assertive.

At a private school, a child can be asked to leave for bullying or any other behavior that is not in the best interests of the community. They have more options for dealing with bullying.

A public school can only expel for the most egregious kinds of bullying, but otherwise their hands are tied.

So, yes, given that private school has more options, I damn well expect them to exercise them.


Right, for outright bullying. Not for stuff like "excluded some kids from the birthday party" as is being discussed here. I think people assume "a better kind" of people can do private and won't engage in that behavior and it has to be a real kick in the face to realize that nope, they're there too and you're paying $40k and your kid is still going to be left out and excluded and subjected to vague, hard to punish mean kid behavior that is parent sanctioned.


I think you're dealing in sweeping generalizations. I don't think people necessarily assume a "better kind" of people attend these schools. I went in dreading mean parent behavior, snobbery and elitism, and found that most people were very nice and normal. What I did expect was a better learning environment, and that my child has gotten.

Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 14:43     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think I see the problem. If your kid is excluded at a public school you shrug and go, that's public school, what more do you expect. But then some of you pay $40k a year for school and think that will somehow buy your kid's way out of shit like that only to get pissed when it doesn't. Because damn, you can be excluded for free in public school.


No, it's not about buying your way out. The fact is that public and private have different options in responding to bullying, and private can be much more assertive.

At a private school, a child can be asked to leave for bullying or any other behavior that is not in the best interests of the community. They have more options for dealing with bullying.

A public school can only expel for the most egregious kinds of bullying, but otherwise their hands are tied.

So, yes, given that private school has more options, I damn well expect them to exercise them.


Right, for outright bullying. Not for stuff like "excluded some kids from the birthday party" as is being discussed here. I think people assume "a better kind" of people can do private and won't engage in that behavior and it has to be a real kick in the face to realize that nope, they're there too and you're paying $40k and your kid is still going to be left out and excluded and subjected to vague, hard to punish mean kid behavior that is parent sanctioned.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 14:23     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:I think I see the problem. If your kid is excluded at a public school you shrug and go, that's public school, what more do you expect. But then some of you pay $40k a year for school and think that will somehow buy your kid's way out of shit like that only to get pissed when it doesn't. Because damn, you can be excluded for free in public school.


No, it's not about buying your way out. The fact is that public and private have different options in responding to bullying, and private can be much more assertive.

At a private school, a child can be asked to leave for bullying or any other behavior that is not in the best interests of the community. They have more options for dealing with bullying.

A public school can only expel for the most egregious kinds of bullying, but otherwise their hands are tied.

So, yes, given that private school has more options, I damn well expect them to exercise them.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 14:16     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
I think I see the problem. If your kid is excluded at a public school you shrug and go, that's public school, what more do you expect. But then some of you pay $40k a year for school and think that will somehow buy your kid's way out of shit like that only to get pissed when it doesn't. Because damn, you can be excluded for free in public school.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 12:11     Subject: Re:Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Beauvoir kids always make up the top students of the class at STA and NCS. The kids tend to be more inclusive than most and have a wide variety of diverse friends. Saying that - I will say their parents unfortunately are not all like that and the cliquey parents try their best to not be incisive. That's where the problem lies - but it is only a handful in each grade.


Beauvoir girls make up most of the class in LS so this may seem to be the case. The list of girls in the Summa Cum Laude society (top of the graduating class) each year doesn't support this statement. US admissions can better assess academic fit of an incoming 9th grader than Beauvoir admissions can for a 3 or 4 year old. FWIW my DDs went to Beauvoir and NCS and are doing well academically. One of them has a nice, inclusive cohort from Beauvoir (the parents and the kids). The other does not - each grade is different.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 09:09     Subject: Re:Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous PP (previous to the "snowflake" comment--which I'd never make).

Sorry, but I don't outsource my judgement or my kids' judgement to some school handbook.

Our parties are very fun and extremely open, yet we allow our kids to make their own mistakes and to learn from them. Life is a 100-year marathon. Unless truly necessary, I don't impose my views (much less some random handbook) on other people.


Well, your moral and ethical compass are somewhat skewed. Most Beauvoir parents comply with the provisions in the handbook. Not because they've "outsourced judgment," but because they agree that tolerance and inclusion are more important than the birthday child getting their way.

What relevance is the idea that a party is "fun and extremely open" if kids are included and you allow them to "make their own mistakes"? If you're applying this to elementary school kids, you're actually sanctioning hurtful behavior.

I might make an exception for a child who is physically aggressive (after age 6 or so) or who is a bully -- and I would make it clear to my child's teachers and the parents of the child why they were not invited -- but otherwise I don't think there's an excuse for excluding an 8-year old child in order to let your child "make their own mistakes," or, put another way, be a hurtful jerk.



Well, I respect your opinions and preferences.

Will you respect mine?


Nope. See, the point of having a moral and ethical compass is that not all actions and choices are equally deserving of respect. I've already made it clear that I don't respect a parent choosing a child's right to do what they want over tolerance, compassion, and inclusivity.


I suspected you'd say so, just wanted you to realize how intolerant you actually are, lost in your self-delusion and sanctimony.

Grow up.


Actually, I consider it quite grown up to have a set of values. It appears you do not. The fact that you can only resort to childish phrases to make your point demonstrates your intellectual and moral poverty.

Have a lovely day!
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 09:04     Subject: Re:Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
By high school, the parents have a lot less say in social dynamics.

For STA, I think it's a good thing, The boys who lead and are popular are the ones who earn it on their own merits through smarts and accomplishments in sports. The boys could care less what the parents do or how much they earn.

For NCS, I think waning parental influence allows mean girl dynamics to become more prevalent. Wealth and parental status matter.

Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 08:55     Subject: Re:Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous PP (previous to the "snowflake" comment--which I'd never make).

Sorry, but I don't outsource my judgement or my kids' judgement to some school handbook.

Our parties are very fun and extremely open, yet we allow our kids to make their own mistakes and to learn from them. Life is a 100-year marathon. Unless truly necessary, I don't impose my views (much less some random handbook) on other people.


Well, your moral and ethical compass are somewhat skewed. Most Beauvoir parents comply with the provisions in the handbook. Not because they've "outsourced judgment," but because they agree that tolerance and inclusion are more important than the birthday child getting their way.

What relevance is the idea that a party is "fun and extremely open" if kids are included and you allow them to "make their own mistakes"? If you're applying this to elementary school kids, you're actually sanctioning hurtful behavior.

I might make an exception for a child who is physically aggressive (after age 6 or so) or who is a bully -- and I would make it clear to my child's teachers and the parents of the child why they were not invited -- but otherwise I don't think there's an excuse for excluding an 8-year old child in order to let your child "make their own mistakes," or, put another way, be a hurtful jerk.



Well, I respect your opinions and preferences.

Will you respect mine?


Nope. See, the point of having a moral and ethical compass is that not all actions and choices are equally deserving of respect. I've already made it clear that I don't respect a parent choosing a child's right to do what they want over tolerance, compassion, and inclusivity.


I suspected you'd say so, just wanted you to realize how intolerant you actually are, lost in your self-delusion and sanctimony.

Grow up.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 08:51     Subject: Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Beauvoir kids always make up the top stidents of the class at STA and NCS. The kids tend to be more inclusive than most and have a wide variety of diverse friends. Saying that - I will say their parents unfortunately are not all like that and the cliquey parents try their best to not be incisive. That's where the problem lies - but it is only a handful in each grade.
Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 08:46     Subject: Re:Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous PP (previous to the "snowflake" comment--which I'd never make).

Sorry, but I don't outsource my judgement or my kids' judgement to some school handbook.

Our parties are very fun and extremely open, yet we allow our kids to make their own mistakes and to learn from them. Life is a 100-year marathon. Unless truly necessary, I don't impose my views (much less some random handbook) on other people.


Well, your moral and ethical compass are somewhat skewed. Most Beauvoir parents comply with the provisions in the handbook. Not because they've "outsourced judgment," but because they agree that tolerance and inclusion are more important than the birthday child getting their way.

What relevance is the idea that a party is "fun and extremely open" if kids are included and you allow them to "make their own mistakes"? If you're applying this to elementary school kids, you're actually sanctioning hurtful behavior.

I might make an exception for a child who is physically aggressive (after age 6 or so) or who is a bully -- and I would make it clear to my child's teachers and the parents of the child why they were not invited -- but otherwise I don't think there's an excuse for excluding an 8-year old child in order to let your child "make their own mistakes," or, put another way, be a hurtful jerk.



NP. Really? You would do this? You would make a point to tell Larla's mother or teacher that she not being invited to a party because she is a bully? You would go out of your way to make that clear to them?

Sorry, I don't know of anyone who would have the nerve to do this IRL.


So you don't know me.

I have done this, although not at Beauvoir. We were at a school that was quite weak in its response to bullying. I had no qualms about not inviting the bully -- and telling the parents and the teachers, who were all aware of the issue -- why the child was not being invited.

That school also had an inclusive birthday policy, and I was making it clear why I was not following it. Teachers understood. Parent got defensive and angry, but so what.

I actually felt sorry for the bully, because it was obvious why the child was screwed up. The parents seemed to have only two modes: disengaged or spanking. I have three kids in private school, and they were the only parents I've ever encountered who not only spanked and slapped their children, but did so in public.

DC had a happy, bully-free birthday. We left the school at the end of the year. I wish I'd pulled DC out earlier.

Anonymous
Post 08/27/2016 08:00     Subject: Re:Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous PP (previous to the "snowflake" comment--which I'd never make).

Sorry, but I don't outsource my judgement or my kids' judgement to some school handbook.

Our parties are very fun and extremely open, yet we allow our kids to make their own mistakes and to learn from them. Life is a 100-year marathon. Unless truly necessary, I don't impose my views (much less some random handbook) on other people.


Well, your moral and ethical compass are somewhat skewed. Most Beauvoir parents comply with the provisions in the handbook. Not because they've "outsourced judgment," but because they agree that tolerance and inclusion are more important than the birthday child getting their way.

What relevance is the idea that a party is "fun and extremely open" if kids are included and you allow them to "make their own mistakes"? If you're applying this to elementary school kids, you're actually sanctioning hurtful behavior.

I might make an exception for a child who is physically aggressive (after age 6 or so) or who is a bully -- and I would make it clear to my child's teachers and the parents of the child why they were not invited -- but otherwise I don't think there's an excuse for excluding an 8-year old child in order to let your child "make their own mistakes," or, put another way, be a hurtful jerk.



Well, I respect your opinions and preferences.

Will you respect mine?


Nope. See, the point of having a moral and ethical compass is that not all actions and choices are equally deserving of respect. I've already made it clear that I don't respect a parent choosing a child's right to do what they want over tolerance, compassion, and inclusivity.
Anonymous
Post 08/26/2016 21:20     Subject: Re:Changing Classrooms at Beauvoir?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm the previous PP (previous to the "snowflake" comment--which I'd never make).

Sorry, but I don't outsource my judgement or my kids' judgement to some school handbook.

Our parties are very fun and extremely open, yet we allow our kids to make their own mistakes and to learn from them. Life is a 100-year marathon. Unless truly necessary, I don't impose my views (much less some random handbook) on other people.


Well, your moral and ethical compass are somewhat skewed. Most Beauvoir parents comply with the provisions in the handbook. Not because they've "outsourced judgment," but because they agree that tolerance and inclusion are more important than the birthday child getting their way.

What relevance is the idea that a party is "fun and extremely open" if kids are included and you allow them to "make their own mistakes"? If you're applying this to elementary school kids, you're actually sanctioning hurtful behavior.

I might make an exception for a child who is physically aggressive (after age 6 or so) or who is a bully -- and I would make it clear to my child's teachers and the parents of the child why they were not invited -- but otherwise I don't think there's an excuse for excluding an 8-year old child in order to let your child "make their own mistakes," or, put another way, be a hurtful jerk.



NP. Really? You would do this? You would make a point to tell Larla's mother or teacher that she not being invited to a party because she is a bully? You would go out of your way to make that clear to them?

Sorry, I don't know of anyone who would have the nerve to do this IRL.