Anonymous wrote:BTW PP, child-led interventions for speech like the Hanen Method have been studied and found effective for all kinds of kids, including those with Language Impairment, Autism Spectrum Disorder, and Developmental Delay.
http://www.hanen.org/Helpful-Info/Articles/Parents-as--Speech-Therapists--What-a-New-Study-S.aspx

So enough with the BS but ST is "so different" for ASD and non-ASD kids. It's not.

the videos you posted and the kids look quite different. the apraxic kid is being taught the mechanics of speech, snd the kid w asd looks more like he is being taught how to communicate syntactically. I am sure there are commanalities with therapies but I am also sure that they are not identical.

BTW PP, child-led interventions for speech like the Hanen Method have been studied and found effective for all kinds of kids, including those with Language Impairment, Autism Spectrum Disorder, and Developmental Delay.
http://www.hanen.org/Helpful-Info/Articles/Parents-as--Speech-Therapists--What-a-New-Study-S.aspx

So enough with the BS but ST is "so different" for ASD and non-ASD kids. It's not.

Anonymous wrote:

You are kidding yourself if you think those videos look like good speech therapy. I know it's what a lot of speech therapists do -- and it's lousy. Child-led therapy is what works. It took me quite a while to find someone who did it, but when I did, the difference was night and day.

I didn't say anything about the quality, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think most speech therapy looks like this in practice. Also, they are just examples of STs assessing where kids are and progress.

The main point is that two kids have very similar struggles; the differences are in affect and eye contact.

So please get over thinking your kid with a language disorder is so much different than children on the spectrum.

You are kidding yourself if you think those videos look like good speech therapy. I know it's what a lot of speech therapists do -- and it's lousy. Child-led therapy is what works. It took me quite a while to find someone who did it, but when I did, the difference was night and day.

ST looks VERY similar whether or not a kid is on the spectrum.

Here's a kid with apraxia:


And another kid who has autism:


For all the people that say it's so different, you are kidding yourself. You want to think that b/c it gives you the illusion that your kids are SOOO different from children with autism. They are not.

We've gone to camps, schools, and social skill groups with kids with ASD and not. It doesn't matter so much a diagnosis b/c many kids end up with the same weaknesses and work on the same goals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again BS, PP.

Autism isn't "autism." You've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

You are obviously paranoid that people assume your kid is autistic. So what? Who cares if people think b/c he's high functioning SN, it's no big deal. You are so incredibly prejudiced, it's stomach turning.

This is the popular phrase, but I haven't found it to be true. They are all pretty similar. That's how they are diagnoses, isn't it?

Neurologically yes, IRL, no. Again, stomach turning b/c you think your kid's "true diagnosis" makes him better/different than kids on the spectrum.

You just want to see what you want to see. It's not "they" or "them." People with autism are people. Autism is one aspect of their genetic make up. Sometimes it may require OT, ST or other related service. However, that goes for a child with a language disorder. It is one aspect of their genetic make up that may require OT, ST or other related service. It doesn't define the beginning and end of who they are. Neither does autism. Start to see whole people if you can.

First, I don't think it was a neurological issue as you are thinking and I think the are other roots to it but we will never know as the docs are not willing to figure it out. You do understand that speech/OT is very different for autism vs. a language disorder and different therapists specialize in different things so it is important to have an accurate diagnosis. Why is it so important to you everyone be lumped together under "autism" Its not about being better or different, its about accurately diagnosing and providing the best services to meet that child's needs. We wasted many months on ABA when clearly speech therapy was better.

Np. I'm not sure that there's any disagreement here in the thread about the importance of accurate diagnosis. Nor are the several pps saying (so far as I can tell) that they want all or most SN kids to be lumped in under a broad autism diagnosis "just because." Everyone wants the best supports to address their children's needs, whatever those might be. The key point of disagreement seems to be your assertion that all autistic kids--and you seem to have a very specific, narrow definition in mind--are the same, and require the same therapies, and because the therapy in question wasn't a best fit for your kid, then it means he was misdiagnosed.

That just doesn't make sense to me logically, nor in terms of our practical experience. In terms of your example, ABA wasn't a best fit for our kid either, and speech therapy has helped with some aspects; that doesn't make him less autistic as measured against the criteria, nor invalidate the criteria themselves; it simply makes him an individual whose therapies and needs are distinct to him, in the same way that any people being treated for any medical or psychological condition are going to be more responsive to some medications or therapies than others. To continue the metaphor, I think that we can probably agree that's why it's so important to try many different avenues to find the best fit for your child's needs--however they manifest--without tying yourself to the idea that if a therapy often used for autism works it means your kid is autistic, or vice versa. It's about the outcome for your kid as an individual, not the label that comes with it, right?

Apparently, not for the PP.

PP, not every kid with autism needs ABA therapy, and just b/c your kid did better with speech than ABA doesn't mean he's not on the spectrum. And, I'm sick to death of people repeating the fallacy that kids with autism lack empathy or in your case the big, fat misconception that speech therapy for kids with autism and for kids with language disorders look very different. They can in fact look extremely similar b/c kids can share the same struggles believe it or not. Seriously, if you don't believe me, ask your speech therapist.

I'm a different poster -- and it's not a lie, it's the truth. And yes, this comes from speech therapists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again BS, PP.

Autism isn't "autism." You've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

You are obviously paranoid that people assume your kid is autistic. So what? Who cares if people think b/c he's high functioning SN, it's no big deal. You are so incredibly prejudiced, it's stomach turning.

This is the popular phrase, but I haven't found it to be true. They are all pretty similar. That's how they are diagnoses, isn't it?

Neurologically yes, IRL, no. Again, stomach turning b/c you think your kid's "true diagnosis" makes him better/different than kids on the spectrum.

You just want to see what you want to see. It's not "they" or "them." People with autism are people. Autism is one aspect of their genetic make up. Sometimes it may require OT, ST or other related service. However, that goes for a child with a language disorder. It is one aspect of their genetic make up that may require OT, ST or other related service. It doesn't define the beginning and end of who they are. Neither does autism. Start to see whole people if you can.

First, I don't think it was a neurological issue as you are thinking and I think the are other roots to it but we will never know as the docs are not willing to figure it out. You do understand that speech/OT is very different for autism vs. a language disorder and different therapists specialize in different things so it is important to have an accurate diagnosis. Why is it so important to you everyone be lumped together under "autism" Its not about being better or different, its about accurately diagnosing and providing the best services to meet that child's needs. We wasted many months on ABA when clearly speech therapy was better.

Np. I'm not sure that there's any disagreement here in the thread about the importance of accurate diagnosis. Nor are the several pps saying (so far as I can tell) that they want all or most SN kids to be lumped in under a broad autism diagnosis "just because." Everyone wants the best supports to address their children's needs, whatever those might be. The key point of disagreement seems to be your assertion that all autistic kids--and you seem to have a very specific, narrow definition in mind--are the same, and require the same therapies, and because the therapy in question wasn't a best fit for your kid, then it means he was misdiagnosed.

That just doesn't make sense to me logically, nor in terms of our practical experience. In terms of your example, ABA wasn't a best fit for our kid either, and speech therapy has helped with some aspects; that doesn't make him less autistic as measured against the criteria, nor invalidate the criteria themselves; it simply makes him an individual whose therapies and needs are distinct to him, in the same way that any people being treated for any medical or psychological condition are going to be more responsive to some medications or therapies than others. To continue the metaphor, I think that we can probably agree that's why it's so important to try many different avenues to find the best fit for your child's needs--however they manifest--without tying yourself to the idea that if a therapy often used for autism works it means your kid is autistic, or vice versa. It's about the outcome for your kid as an individual, not the label that comes with it, right?

Apparently, not for the PP.

PP, not every kid with autism needs ABA therapy, and just b/c your kid did better with speech than ABA doesn't mean he's not on the spectrum. And, I'm sick to death of people repeating the fallacy that kids with autism lack empathy or in your case the big, fat misconception that speech therapy for kids with autism and for kids with language disorders look very different. They can in fact look extremely similar b/c kids can share the same struggles believe it or not. Seriously, if you don't believe me, ask your speech therapist.

Labels drive services. They aren't supposed to, but that is how real life works.

In Braxton's case, she got a very early diagnosis, and studies show those aren't very reliable. She also had a lot of money to throw at the issues. So it's not all that surprising that her son is doing so much better now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again BS, PP.

Autism isn't "autism." You've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

You are obviously paranoid that people assume your kid is autistic. So what? Who cares if people think b/c he's high functioning SN, it's no big deal. You are so incredibly prejudiced, it's stomach turning.

This is the popular phrase, but I haven't found it to be true. They are all pretty similar. That's how they are diagnoses, isn't it?

Neurologically yes, IRL, no. Again, stomach turning b/c you think your kid's "true diagnosis" makes him better/different than kids on the spectrum.

You just want to see what you want to see. It's not "they" or "them." People with autism are people. Autism is one aspect of their genetic make up. Sometimes it may require OT, ST or other related service. However, that goes for a child with a language disorder. It is one aspect of their genetic make up that may require OT, ST or other related service. It doesn't define the beginning and end of who they are. Neither does autism. Start to see whole people if you can.

First, I don't think it was a neurological issue as you are thinking and I think the are other roots to it but we will never know as the docs are not willing to figure it out. You do understand that speech/OT is very different for autism vs. a language disorder and different therapists specialize in different things so it is important to have an accurate diagnosis. Why is it so important to you everyone be lumped together under "autism" Its not about being better or different, its about accurately diagnosing and providing the best services to meet that child's needs. We wasted many months on ABA when clearly speech therapy was better.

Np. I'm not sure that there's any disagreement here in the thread about the importance of accurate diagnosis. Nor are the several pps saying (so far as I can tell) that they want all or most SN kids to be lumped in under a broad autism diagnosis "just because." Everyone wants the best supports to address their children's needs, whatever those might be. The key point of disagreement seems to be your assertion that all autistic kids--and you seem to have a very specific, narrow definition in mind--are the same, and require the same therapies, and because the therapy in question wasn't a best fit for your kid, then it means he was misdiagnosed.

That just doesn't make sense to me logically, nor in terms of our practical experience. In terms of your example, ABA wasn't a best fit for our kid either, and speech therapy has helped with some aspects; that doesn't make him less autistic as measured against the criteria, nor invalidate the criteria themselves; it simply makes him an individual whose therapies and needs are distinct to him, in the same way that any people being treated for any medical or psychological condition are going to be more responsive to some medications or therapies than others. To continue the metaphor, I think that we can probably agree that's why it's so important to try many different avenues to find the best fit for your child's needs--however they manifest--without tying yourself to the idea that if a therapy often used for autism works it means your kid is autistic, or vice versa. It's about the outcome for your kid as an individual, not the label that comes with it, right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again BS, PP.

Autism isn't "autism." You've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

You are obviously paranoid that people assume your kid is autistic. So what? Who cares if people think b/c he's high functioning SN, it's no big deal. You are so incredibly prejudiced, it's stomach turning.

This is the popular phrase, but I haven't found it to be true. They are all pretty similar. That's how they are diagnoses, isn't it?

Neurologically yes, IRL, no. Again, stomach turning b/c you think your kid's "true diagnosis" makes him better/different than kids on the spectrum.

You just want to see what you want to see. It's not "they" or "them." People with autism are people. Autism is one aspect of their genetic make up. Sometimes it may require OT, ST or other related service. However, that goes for a child with a language disorder. It is one aspect of their genetic make up that may require OT, ST or other related service. It doesn't define the beginning and end of who they are. Neither does autism. Start to see whole people if you can.

First, I don't think it was a neurological issue as you are thinking and I think the are other roots to it but we will never know as the docs are not willing to figure it out. You do understand that speech/OT is very different for autism vs. a language disorder and different therapists specialize in different things so it is important to have an accurate diagnosis. Why is it so important to you everyone be lumped together under "autism" Its not about being better or different, its about accurately diagnosing and providing the best services to meet that child's needs. We wasted many months on ABA when clearly speech therapy was better.

Huh? Have you made some scientific breakthrough that no one else knows about? They have no clue if all kids with autism are neurologically similar or not. No clue. There could be 100 different genetic or neurological causes or contributing factors. We just don't know.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again BS, PP.

Autism isn't "autism." You've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

You are obviously paranoid that people assume your kid is autistic. So what? Who cares if people think b/c he's high functioning SN, it's no big deal. You are so incredibly prejudiced, it's stomach turning.

This is the popular phrase, but I haven't found it to be true. They are all pretty similar. That's how they are diagnoses, isn't it?

Neurologically yes, IRL, no. Again, stomach turning b/c you think your kid's "true diagnosis" makes him better/different than kids on the spectrum.

You just want to see what you want to see. It's not "they" or "them." People with autism are people. Autism is one aspect of their genetic make up. Sometimes it may require OT, ST or other related service. However, that goes for a child with a language disorder. It is one aspect of their genetic make up that may require OT, ST or other related service. It doesn't define the beginning and end of who they are. Neither does autism. Start to see whole people if you can.

Anonymous wrote:Again BS, PP.

Autism isn't "autism." You've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

You are obviously paranoid that people assume your kid is autistic. So what? Who cares if people think b/c he's high functioning SN, it's no big deal. You are so incredibly prejudiced, it's stomach turning.

This is the popular phrase, but I haven't found it to be true. They are all pretty similar. That's how they are diagnoses, isn't it?

Anonymous wrote:If it was autism, there is no cure. So, her son got the wrong diagnosis. My son was also diagnosed at 2. A few years later he had his struggles but one doc still insisted it was autism by history. It makes no sense to me. Autism has now become the catch phrase for we don't know what is wrong with your kid and sadly minimizes the word and true meaning for those kids who do have it and deserve all the supports and help they can get.

Not exactly true, but not exactly false. Some kids who qualify for an ASD diagnosis will no longer qualify for the diagnosis after treatment. They aren't exactly the same as NT kids, but they're don't qualify as autistic anymore. It's more of an improvement than a cure.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/making-sense-autistic-spectrum-disorders/201008/017-losing-the-asd-diagnosis-does-not-equal

Anonymous wrote:Again BS, PP.

Autism isn't "autism." You've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism.

You are obviously paranoid that people assume your kid is autistic. So what? Who cares if people think b/c he's high functioning SN, it's no big deal. You are so incredibly prejudiced, it's stomach turning.

Sorry to clarify calling BS on 18:13.