Anonymous
08/05/2016 16:30
Subject: Re:Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
I also call troll. A lot of the long drawn out posts don't sound like they were written by a man ("I only want the people at my wedding who made me the man I am today!" LOL) Does anyone else know a man IRL who is this ideological about his wedding?
Uh, I actually know several who felt that way when the guest list was so restricted.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 16:27
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:If your stepmom was on the scene within two months of your bio mom leaving, odds are your stepmom was once your dad's mistress.
Regardless, I think you are putting too much emotional effort into mitigating the consequences of your parents' divorce. I say this as someone who has been doing the same thing for 25 years. Stop doing it. Stop talking to your mom about how it makes her feel. Stop talking to your dad about how he should treat your mom. Let them be adults, let them hurt each other, and you focus on creating a healthy marriage with your fiancée.
You are allowed to just invite your parents. Call it "family only", but own it. Your dad may be resentful for awhile. He's allowed to be. Neither of you can have your cake and eat it too: that's part of being an adult.
And you seem to have touched on all the DCUM relationship hot buttons: cheating, divorce, adult children v. new partners, destination weddings. If you are a troll, this is exceptionally well played. Bravo!
This is absolutely correct. OP, do you really think your father was faithful to your insane, as you say, bio mom? Unlikely. Also odd that a brand new girlfriend would feel so completely immediately invested in raising your father's children if she weren't already on the scene for a bit and already emotionally entangled. No one I know who had a train wreck first spouse ended up with a normal second spouse, if they didn't take some time for high quality self reflection / therapy between relationships. Your sanctifying your stepmother while demonizing your father's new partner might fit nicely with your black and white view of everything in the world, but it isn't likely the truth.
I also call troll. A lot of the long drawn out posts don't sound like they were written by a man ("I only want the people at my wedding who made me the man I am today!" LOL) Does anyone else know a man IRL who is this ideological about his wedding?
Anonymous
08/05/2016 09:21
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
My father didn't bring a date to my sister's wedding decades latter to avoid drama - and it was my mother who filed for divorce. Your father is making it about him, it's not.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 09:21
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:This is a wedding where you make marriage vows... and your father seems to have made a MOCKERY of his own marriage. I understand how this is upsetting. He can bring this woman and flaunt how much he crapped all over his own vows with your mom.
I mean, let's get a grip without the added hysteria of this sentiment above- it won't help OP. If you didn't allow anyone to attend a wedding who made a mockery of wedding vows you would be bananas.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 09:01
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You need to be an adult. Invite your father "plus 1" and invite your mother "plus 1." They are both adults and will deal. Seat them at separate tables, far from each other. They'll handle it maturely.
If your father wants to be an idiot and invite the new woman, let him. He'll look like an ass, and you'll look like the mature person you are.
This, IMO, is the high road. Everything else will be drama.
It's drama regardless. OP is not obligated to invite the OW. No way in hell would I want this woman in my wedding pictures.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 08:56
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How are you 27 and your parents ended their 23 year old marriage?
Bio mom is not in the picture, this is his step mom, but real mom.
Keep up.
Also, last time I checked, biology works with or without a wedding ring! I know I wouldn't get married immediately just for getting pregnant.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 08:44
Subject: Re:Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Before reading any of the thread, based just on OP, I wonder if maybe coming at this from an approach that is a place of hurt rather than anger might resonate best. Because let's be honest, anger is caused by hurt and there is no shame in admitting sadness.
Could you sit down with your father and his girlfriend and say "Please hear me out before speaking" so you aren't cut off before finishing. Could you say, look, we all make our choices and live our lives but right now, this is not something that is really healed for me yet. I know that might not seem like the right answer to you but I can;t be anything but honest. This is something that still causes me pain and anxiety with regard as to how to handle this new dynamic and I can;t make that go away any faster, its just going to happen in its own time." I wouldnt get into when you think it will, or if you never want it to, etc. that isn;t really relevant for the wedding. In that context you could appeal a bit to his GF that you aren't aiming to be malicious or vindictive but that it just feels like it will be painful and cause anxiety on the day that should be about joy.
I know its always easy to demonize the OW. To be sure some people are pure shit. But a lot more people, in my experience, are just very flawed. She might be a narcissistic monster but she also might be someone with poor choices, bad judgement, big issues, etc. that is able to see what is happening and bow out gracefully because she doesn't want to cause hurt. Its worth a try right?
Could you sit down with your father and his girlfriend and say "Please hear me out before speaking" so you aren't cut off before finishing. Could you say, look, we all make our choices and live our lives but right now, this is not something that is really healed for me yet. I know that might not seem like the right answer to you but I can;t be anything but honest. This is something that still causes me pain and anxiety with regard as to how to handle this new dynamic and I can;t make that go away any faster, its just going to happen in its own time." I wouldnt get into when you think it will, or if you never want it to, etc. that isn;t really relevant for the wedding. In that context you could appeal a bit to his GF that you aren't aiming to be malicious or vindictive but that it just feels like it will be painful and cause anxiety on the day that should be about joy.
I know its always easy to demonize the OW. To be sure some people are pure shit. But a lot more people, in my experience, are just very flawed. She might be a narcissistic monster but she also might be someone with poor choices, bad judgement, big issues, etc. that is able to see what is happening and bow out gracefully because she doesn't want to cause hurt. Its worth a try right?
Anonymous
08/05/2016 07:51
Subject: Re:Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:OP here
Cant remember who said it but whoever said that this is the first of many instances where I have to deal with this is correct.
It seems like many pp are hung up on the details of the divorce. I opted not to add to much detail about that to my first post because A: Its long and B: Like another pp has said regardless of any other reasons I personally don't want her there
So a couple things to consider. First is this will be a small wedding, less than 10 guest more than likely. I've made it clear that I only want those who have been there for my whole journey through life and those who had a profound impact on making me the man I am today. So the cost will be rather low.
To give a little more clarity on the divorce I know all the details because neither of them would shut up about it, they still don't. Nothing gets spared when you are grown and a divorce goes down. The first time I met this woman I was 11. I was with my father at his work when we stopped by OW office. I remember him telling me "she's a fox" on the way out and being weirded out by it. She's a media rep and she's always had something to gain from him. She coveted my mothers life and they would get together and commiserate about their spouses over drinks and who knows what else under the guise of business.
My dad is short fat and hairy and she's attractive enough to date someone much younger. No reasonable human being could look at them and go boy I bet she gets so wet when she thinks about him. Its ridiculous.
This woman was an integral part of my dad and moms life. They traveled, attended events and were "friends" the OW made repeated attempts to have a personal "friendship" with my mom. Even the people my dad is around in the professional world at the time would ask my mom in private "what's going on between them?" And she would shake it off. My father would tout how loyal he is and how he would never leave her because she was there before he was successful when we had nothing. But my father is the type of man to never be alone. As soon as the OW was ready to divorce my dad served papers. He didn't even tell me she was why he was doing it.
My mom is not a saint by any means, in a lot of respects she's bat shit crazy. But the way my dad carried it not just with her but with me I just couldn't respect or get behind.
The woman I refer to as my mom is my step mom. My real mother is bipolar abusive and an addict. She left us when I was six months old and two months later my step mom came on the scene. Even when my bio mom came back when I was 4 trying to be mother of the year even though she was u medicated and coked out my step mom loved me and picked up the pieces when my real mom shattered me .She gave up a lucrative career and 23 years of her life to raise me and my brother. She raised us like we were her own and at the time my dad was my age and bankrupt with 3 failed.business ventures. She earned every penny she got in the divorce and the right to be at my wedding and celebrate her son without the distractions and issues.
I know there is validity to what others are saying about me picking sides, about what is proper and not proper and that this is unlikely to change and that he has likely chosen the OW over everything. But he lied to me, he lied to my mom. He didn't even have the balls to tell me when he was going forward with the divorce or the real reason why. I ran into them in Bethesda a year ago and that's how I found out.
The reason why i am dealing with this now is because i am planning on doing a destination wedding and then roll into the honeymoon. So if elopment is what were are going to do i need to know now, and if people are going to be there we need to know now.
I appreciate all the feedback so much. I dont know what i am going to do as of yet but i do know that deep in my heart and from a moral stand point I'm not okay with the OW/new SO being there and i wouldn't be okay with asking my mom to endure that. And i know that its all i will be able to focus on when i should be focused on family and my wife to be.
I just wish he wanted to be there regardless. I couldn't fathom not wanting to be at my future children's weddings.
given this additional info, I would *not* include dad and Ow in the wedding. You'd be basically going on vacation with mom, dad and OW. Not fun for you or mom.
- PP who has been there
Anonymous
08/05/2016 07:46
Subject: Re:Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Your mom has been betrayed and devastated by your dad. She will feel betrayed by you if you let your dad bring OW to the wedding. Dont do this to her, she deserves to enjoy your wedding day. As to your father, he's made his own bed. If he is so selfish that he cannot see why you dont want the OW at the wedding, then to hell with him.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 07:43
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:You need to be an adult. Invite your father "plus 1" and invite your mother "plus 1." They are both adults and will deal. Seat them at separate tables, far from each other. They'll handle it maturely.
If your father wants to be an idiot and invite the new woman, let him. He'll look like an ass, and you'll look like the mature person you are.
OP, this is the most mature response on YOUR part. I have been where you are. My dad destroyed our family with an affair, married the woman, had a new family. My mom HATES them both.
But, at the end of the day, I felt we all had to forgive and move on. I can't spend the rest of my life, and that of my children, trying to avoid OW. Today it's my wedding. What about baby showers, christenings, birthdays, Christmas, and on and on.... are you going to exclude OW and therefore your dad from your life forever? Because you or your mom are angry over your dad's terrible behavior?
What your dad did *is* terrible and selfish. And he clearly intends to continue being selfish, as his response to your wish for your wedding indicates. You have to decide: do you love him enough to accept him despite his shortcomings, or is his selfishness too much for you to tolerate. If the latter, then I'd exclude him and OW from the wedding and give up on having a relationship with them in the future.
I would let Dad and Ow come and focus on what extra things you can do for your mom so that she feels more comfortable at the wedding. Does she have a date? Will she be able to afford to look her best i.e. hair, dress, etc? Seat them far apart. Have a special son/mom dance. Special flowers for her, whatever else you can do to make her feel loved, special and important that day. Be polite to Ow but don't go out of your way for her.
You are a good son to be so caring about your mom's feelings. Good luck to you.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 07:28
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
This is a wedding where you make marriage vows... and your father seems to have made a MOCKERY of his own marriage. I understand how this is upsetting. He can bring this woman and flaunt how much he crapped all over his own vows with your mom.
Anonymous
08/05/2016 06:56
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
If your stepmom was on the scene within two months of your bio mom leaving, odds are your stepmom was once your dad's mistress.
Regardless, I think you are putting too much emotional effort into mitigating the consequences of your parents' divorce. I say this as someone who has been doing the same thing for 25 years. Stop doing it. Stop talking to your mom about how it makes her feel. Stop talking to your dad about how he should treat your mom. Let them be adults, let them hurt each other, and you focus on creating a healthy marriage with your fiancée.
You are allowed to just invite your parents. Call it "family only", but own it. Your dad may be resentful for awhile. He's allowed to be. Neither of you can have your cake and eat it too: that's part of being an adult.
And you seem to have touched on all the DCUM relationship hot buttons: cheating, divorce, adult children v. new partners, destination weddings. If you are a troll, this is exceptionally well played. Bravo!
Regardless, I think you are putting too much emotional effort into mitigating the consequences of your parents' divorce. I say this as someone who has been doing the same thing for 25 years. Stop doing it. Stop talking to your mom about how it makes her feel. Stop talking to your dad about how he should treat your mom. Let them be adults, let them hurt each other, and you focus on creating a healthy marriage with your fiancée.
You are allowed to just invite your parents. Call it "family only", but own it. Your dad may be resentful for awhile. He's allowed to be. Neither of you can have your cake and eat it too: that's part of being an adult.
And you seem to have touched on all the DCUM relationship hot buttons: cheating, divorce, adult children v. new partners, destination weddings. If you are a troll, this is exceptionally well played. Bravo!
Anonymous
08/04/2016 23:40
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:How are you 27 and your parents ended their 23 year old marriage?
Oh, sorry, hadn't read to page 3 yet before I posted.
Anyway, so how is your mom in all this? You talked a lot about everyone else, but never mentioned how she is emotionally.
I personally think since it is so raw, it makes sense for your father not to have the OW there. but when you said destination wedding, I don't know. Not a fan of making your ten people who have ben there for you all along also travel ofr your wedding. It it was a day, of course father should come alone. But if it's travel, etc it get s little murkier. He should, but I can see why he would not want to.
OP here...
My mom is and has been devastated. My dad was obviously done with her years before the divorce. I think part of her still loves him. They were the type that did everything together...its not like they were distant and apart all the time. I'm having dinner with her on Sunday to talk about things. I do not know where she stands as far as the wedding or what she could tolerate. In general I gave everything a quick breather after the engagement but realized spring is right around the corner in terms of travel. But I dread even bring to the table the OW being there as much as I dreaded Monday nights dinner with my father when I told him I didn't want the OW there.
To give some clarity on timeline, the OW is not a fly by night situation. I believe she's a gold digger in for the long hall and has known my father for 16 years.
The initial separation was about 18 months ago. Its possible that the affair had started as early as 2010 and they had a working relationship since the early 00s. After a nasty dragged out divorce everything was finalized in February. My father is not well, he had serious GI tract surgery due to acid reflux problems two weeks before my proposal. There's a lot of reasons I do not like her and I did not choose to even be around OW or her kids with my Dad until April of this year. I've been trying to play nice but I definitely dont trust her and fear for my father. Its the only reason I have tolerated his behavior up until now.
My mom feels like a lot of women in this situation. Used and betrayed. I cant even put it into words...she sure can though. Its been hard for her because obviously her life has been flipped upside down. Meanwhile my dad is trying to plug and play his past OW now SO into our lives and basically erase my mom.
Its been tough.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 23:35
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:First, congratulations on your engagement. You seem like a nice guy, and I would probably feel the same way if some "woman" basically stole my family from me.
Regardless, I think what you need to understand is that it's very, very rude to ask someone to attend a wedding without their significant other. This is your father. Your mom and dad need to put their differences away for one weekend, put on their big boy/girl panties and be civil to each other for your wedding.
Put them at different tables across the room from each other.
Afdair partners don't get the respect of good manners.
Their treatment should reflect their crime against the family.
Amen.
They don't get to sneak around, and then act like everything has been above the table and be offended.
Eh, really? It takes two to tango and the affair partner has no allegiance to the wife. The husband is the one who cheated on her.
Anonymous
08/04/2016 23:32
Subject: Need help and feedback regarding wedding, father and the OW
Your father should not choose his girlfriend over his son ON HIS SON'S WEDDING DAY! OW should be classy and bow out, acknowledging the mom's greater claim on the day and recognizing that the wounds are still fresh. That would also be a wise tactical move for her, since she might get some grudging credit for bowing out of the day.