Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

What if she decided to go out and get a 9-5 job? Does she have that choice?

If that's what she wanted, she would have had that.

But I am amused you think the only expression of freedom is a 9 to 5 job.

Got it. It was an either-or situation. She chose to be worshipped (you claim) for her home-making skills instead of for the 9-5. But she had to chose one.

You're amused that I value the option to have kids AND a 9-5? You're easily amused!

You didn't. (get it). She has exactly the life she wants.

And no. I'm amused that you think everyone who doesn't choose what you did HAS to be controlled.

You're talking to at least two different people. I'm not top PP who uses the word "controlled". However, I'm the poster who is going to pursue your bad logic. It's unfortunate that this distinction had to be spelled out for you. Here goes. Just because this one woman supposedly has "the life she wants" is no evidence whatsoever that millions of other women can have the lives *they* want, if that's somehow different from being a homemaker.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

What if she decided to go out and get a 9-5 job? Does she have that choice?

If that's what she wanted, she would have had that.

But I am amused you think the only expression of freedom is a 9 to 5 job.

Got it. It was an either-or situation. She chose to be worshipped (you claim) for her home-making skills instead of for the 9-5. But she had to chose one.

You're amused that I value the option to have kids AND a 9-5? You're easily amused!

You didn't. (get it). She has exactly the life she wants.

And no. I'm amused that you think everyone who doesn't choose what you did HAS to be controlled.

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

What if she decided to go out and get a 9-5 job? Does she have that choice?

If that's what she wanted, she would have had that.

But I am amused you think the only expression of freedom is a 9 to 5 job.

Got it. It was an either-or situation. She chose to be worshipped (you claim) for her home-making skills instead of for the 9-5. But she had to chose one.

You're amused that I value the option to have kids AND a 9-5? You're easily amused!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for them. Around age 16 in the US, those girls get broken in to that men come first, and they better obey. Its just sad.

How is life post-lobotomy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

What if she decided to go out and get a 9-5 job? Does she have that choice?

If that's what she wanted, she would have had that.

But I am amused you think the only expression of freedom is a 9 to 5 job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

What a sad life to force upon a woman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

What if she decided to go out and get a 9-5 job? Does she have that choice?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In India before the past 2 decades, you pretty much NEVER saw educated Muslim women wearing either a hijab or a niqab. I still know many Indian Muslim women who would preeeetty much laugh scornfully at the idea of wearing either of those things.

It's just never been how Indian Islam was. It used to be that Indian Muslim girls were actually considered pretty racy and liberal by pearl-clutching Catholic and Hindu Indians. That's changing now, which is sad.

Are you saying this has changed? I grew up with many Muslim girls. Not one of them wore a hijab or niqab.

Unfortunately it is slowly changing. If you visit some Indian cities now, especially Delhi, you see more Muslim girls wearing a niqab or hajib. It's depressing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here who has been following this thread but hasn't commented yet.

OP, I don't see how you can write "the intent of my post was not to discuss whether hijab was mentioned in the Quran."

It wasn't, as you know. Hijab/niqab are not mentioned in the Quran.

That is unavoidably going to color the views that you asked for. A natural extension of this is to ask why, then, women do wear hijab or niqab. It seems hypocritical to fein surprise, as you're doing, that many attribute the veil to patriarchal cultures or to family oppression, and ask why you can't demonstrate modesty without it. You can't close your eyes to this long-standing, global debate about the veil.

PP again. You say your parents and DH didn't force you. But you still listened to a bunch of turbans from very patriarchal cultures. I'm guessing you aren't looking for a pat on the back from DCUM--in your first post you basically acknowledged you knew the responses you were going to get here (and nobody even mentioned terrorism and the whole awful Trump line). Were you thinking that victimhood is an easy way to validate your decision?

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Western women condescension for the savages, how typical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

The fact that you used to think of it as an accessory tells me all I need to know about your education.

Gee well you know, I am friends with a Muslim woman who covers her face and hair, has five children, doesn't drive and her husband eats out of her hand and her family worships her. She doesn't give two shits what non-Muslims think about her. If you told her she was controlled, she'd laugh in your face.

Anonymous wrote:I feel sorry for them. Around age 16 in the US, those girls get broken in to that men come first, and they better obey. Its just sad.

Anonymous wrote:You should think twice about wearing the scarf to cover your hair. I am not a Muslim, and I used to think of it as an accessory. I became friends with a Muslim woman who would cover her hair, young and foreign born but got along well with Americans. Over time, I learned that she was so controlled by her husband. There was the scarf, she had to wear very baggy clothes, she had to call him if she were going out to lunch with others, he wouldn't let her drive out of state by herself, and other things. And if you met him you would never guess about all the little and big things he controlled. They seemed normal except she wore the scarf.

There are decent guys that are Muslim, but they are also very influenced by their families and they get social pressure to go with what the family does.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here who has been following this thread but hasn't commented yet.

OP, I don't see how you can write "the intent of my post was not to discuss whether hijab was mentioned in the Quran."

It wasn't, as you know. Hijab/niqab are not mentioned in the Quran.

That is unavoidably going to color the views that you asked for. A natural extension of this is to ask why, then, women do wear hijab or niqab. It seems hypocritical to fein surprise, as you're doing, that many attribute the veil to patriarchal cultures or to family oppression, and ask why you can't demonstrate modesty without it. You can't close your eyes to this long-standing, global debate about the veil.

PP again. You say your parents and DH didn't force you. But you still listened to a bunch of turbans from very patriarchal cultures. I'm guessing you aren't looking for a pat on the back from DCUM--in your first post you basically acknowledged you knew the responses you were going to get here (and nobody even mentioned terrorism and the whole awful Trump line). Were you thinking that victimhood is an easy way to validate your decision?

This leaves a bad taste in my mouth.