Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

I honestly can't find a single post above that did that.

There was a post from someone who said that he wished he was dumber so he could believe in God and heaven. I'm not dumb and I believe in God. I found it very offensive.

People who lack understanding about others' beliefs or lack of beliefs can be offensive sometimes. It happes to atheists all the time, and not even anonymously on line. Religious people often think it's okay to tell atheists to their face that they are immoral people who are going to burn in hell eternally for not believing in an invisible god and in ancient stories that seem unbelievable to them.

1) If one person is an asshole, it doesn't mean you get to be an asshole too.

2) When you say "religious people" behave like that, you are only talking about fanatic evangelical Christians. And evangelists do that to EVERYONE. They do it to followers of other religions: Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, neo-pagans, everyone. So not only have you decided to insult all religious people as "dumb" for believing in God, but you've also decided to paint all of us with the evangelical brush. For a person who claims to make faith decisions based on rationality, you really aren't showing any.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

I honestly can't find a single post above that did that.

There was a post from someone who said that he wished he was dumber so he could believe in God and heaven. I'm not dumb and I believe in God. I found it very offensive.

People who lack understanding about others' beliefs or lack of beliefs can be offensive sometimes. It happes to atheists all the time, and not even anonymously on line. Religious people often think it's okay to tell atheists to their face that they are immoral people who are going to burn in hell eternally for not believing in an invisible god and in ancient stories that seem unbelievable to them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea of dying young gives me anxiety. I want to grow old and watch my kid grow up and all that. But it's a sense of sadness

I think it's sad our lives are short compared to the universe. But I've come to acceptance about that. I just want to see my kids grow up, that's all.

This. I want to live a rich, full, and long life. And if that happens, I have no anxiety about going when it is my time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

I honestly can't find a single post above that did that.

There was a post from someone who said that he wished he was dumber so he could believe in God and heaven. I'm not dumb and I believe in God. I found it very offensive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

I honestly can't find a single post above that did that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't want to derail the thread, but...it is so weird to me when people like PP are condescending about other people not believing in God. I arrived at my agnosticism after deep, prolonged examination and reflection, in addition to a thorough knowledge of the history of not just Christianity, but the other major religions as well. To have someone glibly pronounce that I am not "self-examined" and that if I were, the sole conclusion from that would be belief in a Christian God...it is just astounding.

PP, your unwavering belief that God exists does not make it so. Your belief that all people ultimately will choose religion, and Christianity in particular, if "self-examined" is so unbelievably naive and half-baked that I cannot possibly regard you as a rational, intelligent person.

+1000

I find it so offensive when Christians say that those of us who don't believe simply aren't trying hard enough. I tried. So hard. For so many years. I'm a former evangelical; I even attended a fundy college (think Liberty University). I'm very well educated in Christian theology and I practiced my faith diligently, even as I battled doubts. But through a long process of education (mainly secular critique of the Bible) and reflection on the upsetting concept of an all knowing, loving, and powerful God who so rarely exerts that power, I became agnostic. And I've never been happier or more at peace.

I think it's great that so many people derive comfort from religion. I derive comfort from NOT being religious. Don't tell me that my personal experience is wrong and that I actually long for God, because I don't. I didn't find peace until I finally accepted that the Christian God does not exist.

+1

I tried for a very long time to be religious and/or spiritual. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools. As a teen-ager and young adult, I went searching for faith in God. I studied and read and prayed. I attended different churches. I took classes. I read books. I prayed some more. I don't have a God shaped hole that needs to be filled with faith. It's not there. It doesn't matter how much I looked, I couldn't find faith and couldn't find a need for faith in my life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't want to derail the thread, but...it is so weird to me when people like PP are condescending about other people not believing in God. I arrived at my agnosticism after deep, prolonged examination and reflection, in addition to a thorough knowledge of the history of not just Christianity, but the other major religions as well. To have someone glibly pronounce that I am not "self-examined" and that if I were, the sole conclusion from that would be belief in a Christian God...it is just astounding.

PP, your unwavering belief that God exists does not make it so. Your belief that all people ultimately will choose religion, and Christianity in particular, if "self-examined" is so unbelievably naive and half-baked that I cannot possibly regard you as a rational, intelligent person.

+1000

I find it so offensive when Christians say that those of us who don't believe simply aren't trying hard enough. I tried. So hard. For so many years. I'm a former evangelical; I even attended a fundy college (think Liberty University). I'm very well educated in Christian theology and I practiced my faith diligently, even as I battled doubts. But through a long process of education (mainly secular critique of the Bible) and reflection on the upsetting concept of an all knowing, loving, and powerful God who so rarely exerts that power, I became agnostic. And I've never been happier or more at peace.

I think it's great that so many people derive comfort from religion. I derive comfort from NOT being religious. Don't tell me that my personal experience is wrong and that I actually long for God, because I don't. I didn't find peace until I finally accepted that the Christian God does not exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So...whenever religious people talk amongst ourselves about stuff like this, I have literally never heard anyone put down atheists or even reference atheists at all.. Not even, "at least I'll feel smug that I wasn't an atheist!" No religious person talks like that, unless they are a cartoon on TV or an actual fanatic. Most people who are believers (and also not fanatic Christian evangelists, which most of us aren't) are happy to just let atheists do their thing and never bring it up.

So when atheists are doing the offhand-condescension move, like, "well I wish I could be dumb enough to believe in god, what a pity I'm not dumb," with the obvious implication that anyone who differs in opinion is dumb, I kinda lose respect for you guys. And I don't see a big difference between you and the evangelists. Just saying.

+1000

I also note the almost militant, detached tone that agnostics here and in other posts take, a deliberate separation from themselves and God, as though they have to really work to keep Him out of their lives. What they don't (yet) understand is the way that God comes to us, lives in us and changes us, through the Holy Spirit. It's not something you constantly have to work at or try to believe, which is what they imply here

To the previous PP, Here's your condescending evidence from the evangelists.

To the pp, you are confused, god doesn't exist, we don't have to keep something out if it doesn't exist in the first place. There is literally no work involved to not believe in god because we are all born not believing in god - it's the default position.

That is not true at all -- in fact, the opposite. We are all born with a "God-shaped" void. We spend our lives trying to fill it; tragically for many, in the wrong way.

Where did you learn that, in Sunday school? Certainly not in science class.

Now I am curious what a god-shaped cookie cutter would look like.