Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Every single woman in this thread knows she has at some point drank too much[/b] and if she has a daughter, her daughter will undoubtedly one night or more in college drink too much because that's what happens. You misjudge your tolerance, you're having a good time, and suddenly you're hammered. There but for the grace of God did I never end up raped behind a dumpster when I had too much to drink at 21, and same goes for all of you. And if you have a daughter who at some point will go to parties or bars, you need to think very, very carefully about assigning blame to this girl because it could happen to your daughter just as easily and I highly doubt you would be so sanguine about her "role" in being victimized as you are right now

We're not assigning blame to say that all of us need to be careful about what we're doing and trying our best to avoid dangerous situations. Can we be 100% safe? Of course not. Think about poor Natalie Hollowell. But we can damn sure try our best. Our sons and daughters [i][u]need to hear that message loud and clear.

Bolded is not true. Woman here. I'm middle-aged and have never been drunk. My family is one of non-drinkers. I'm hoping my daughter (and son) never drink.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why was this rape and not regret sex? He ran, which makes him a jerk. Bit it doesn't make him a rapist, it means he didn't want to be caught having sex with a stranger outside.

Hope it was rape and she didn't send a man to jail for regret sex.

She was unconscious. I don't know about you, but I don't have consensual "regret" sex while unconscious.

Any why was she unconscious with a group of people she didn't know?

Just stop. It doesn't matter. Just because someone makes a poor decision, it doesn't mean you get to rape them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am literally nauseous reading the posts trying to excuse this rapist.

He is not being excused, but it's naive to trust everyone at a party to care about our personal safety. So, right or wrong, fair or not, we need to take steps to look out for ourselves. I remember reading a poster talking about her experience on the metro. When she found herself alone in a car, she switched to another one. That's being smart. Doesn't mean she's 100% safe. Doesn't mean an attacker doesn't deserve punishment.

And by your rationale the woman who was raped on metro 6 weeks ago wasn't paying attention to her safety because she didn't switch cars so that's her fault.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why was this rape and not regret sex? He ran, which makes him a jerk. Bit it doesn't make him a rapist, it means he didn't want to be caught having sex with a stranger outside.

Hope it was rape and she didn't send a man to jail for regret sex.

She was unconscious. I don't know about you, but I don't have consensual "regret" sex while unconscious.

She was at the end. Was she at the beginning?

It doesn't matter at all. If you're having sex with someone and they pass out, ALL CONSENT CEASES. Saying "yes" to sex (which I doubt he did, since it took him a year to remember she supposedly said it) does not extend to when someone is unconscious. A non-rapist would try to get someone who suddenly passed out help, not keep fucking them.

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Anonymous wrote:I can understand the sentence. It was basically a hookup at a frat party gone wrong. It doesn't make sense to send one party to prison for years.. There's no way to know when she became unconscious, but it was probably later rather than sooner.

No, IT WAS A RAPE, you idiot

Do you think a woman ever bears any responsibility re staying sober, not trusting drunk strangers, not walking down a street at 2 a.m. alone, etc? We're not doing any favors to perpetuate the myth that women can be and do anything they want and go anywhere they want without being responsible for their own safety to the degree possible. That's beyond naive and truly not very smart.

Well lucky for you this woman got her comeuppance, huh? That'll teach her!!

You're misinterpreting what I said. Think what you want, but I believe women need to think smart for their own safety as much as is humanly possible. I think the same for men. No one deserves to be hurt, raped, killed, maimed, etc.; and no one can ever be completely safe.

If you're ever raped, I presume you'll blame yourself, then. Surely you would have done something that caused it to happen to you.

If you counsel young men and women in any capacity, I hope you'll instill the idea that we all need to be on the lookout for dangerous situations and not trust people who don't care what happens to us and may even cause harm. It's part of the basic teaching we share with middle and high school students re drug and alcohol safety. Doesn't mean we're assigning blame. It's about safety.

Stop talking

No the last post is 100% correct. Np here.

And yet you can also be incredibly mindful of your safety and still end up in the wrong place at the wrong time and get raped. No woman BEARS RESPONSIBILITY for being raped. Not one.

I don't think PP said she did.

I am supportive of advising young women on how to take precautions to reduce the likelihood of becoming a victim, provided those lessons are given In a context where it is explicitly clear they are not somehow at fault or responsible if they are attacked. But the folks who are bringing up talking to young men about drinking need to also stop and look at what happened in this case and realize why this focus on alcohol and promiscuity is potentially harmful. One of the most powerful parts of this woman's victim statement, in my mind, is when she addresses the rapist's claim that he should receive leniency because he is planning on counseling other boys about the dangers of alcohol and promiscuity. She is entirely right: the problem here isn't that either of them was drunk. It is that he is a rapist. Literally billions of people consume alcohol and don't rape others. Counseling young adults about alcohol use is a good idea. Reframing sexual assault as about drinking and promiscuity, on the other hand, allows people to pretend that rape is far less serious of a problem than it is. When you are talking to young men about sexual assault, explain what consent means. Demand that they respect women. Make it unequivocally clear that sexual assault and taking advantage of someone who is intoxicated is a moral wrong, that they should be profoundly ashamed of themselves if they do it, and that society will justifiably punish them severely. Also talk to them about alcohol, but don't pretend an alcohol talk is a rape talk.

Anonymous wrote:I am literally nauseous reading the posts trying to excuse this rapist.

He is not being excused, but it's naive to trust everyone at a party to care about our personal safety. So, right or wrong, fair or not, we need to take steps to look out for ourselves. I remember reading a poster talking about her experience on the metro. When she found herself alone in a car, she switched to another one. That's being smart. Doesn't mean she's 100% safe. Doesn't mean an attacker doesn't deserve punishment.

Anonymous wrote:Why was this rape and not regret sex? He ran, which makes him a jerk. Bit it doesn't make him a rapist, it means he didn't want to be caught having sex with a stranger outside.

Hope it was rape and she didn't send a man to jail for regret sex.

Regret sex? She was unconscious. There are no circumstances in which an unconscious person can consent to sex. NONE.

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Anonymous wrote:The guy and the girl were both drunk off their asses. I feel sorry for both of them that they made such bad decisions.

The decision to get drunk is nowhere near the magnitude of the decision to rape someone. Many, MANY men get drunk and do not rape anyone.

And this is the huge problem with the way our society views drinking. It's given approval as acceptable, yet we never know for absolutely sure how our bodies will react. Many people can't make a rational decision while drunk. George Huguely is a similar example. It's beyond scary what CAN happen, and lives are ruined forever.

That sounds like a problem with people who are sick in the head, not the victims. Getting drunk doesn't turn you into a rapist. And in this case, the girl was actually physically passed out, so it really doesn't matter if she DID say yes at some point. Once someone is unconscious, there is no consent. Ever.

Anonymous wrote:Every single woman in this thread knows she has at some point drank too much and if she has a daughter, her daughter will undoubtedly one night or more in college drink too much because that's what happens. You misjudge your tolerance, you're having a good time, and suddenly you're hammered. There but for the grace of God did I never end up raped behind a dumpster when I had too much to drink at 21, and same goes for all of you. And if you have a daughter who at some point will go to parties or bars, you need to think very, very carefully about assigning blame to this girl because it could happen to your daughter just as easily and I highly doubt you would be so sanguine about her "role" in being victimized as you are right now

We're not assigning blame to say that all of us need to be careful about what we're doing and trying our best to avoid dangerous situations. Can we be 100% safe? Of course not. Think about poor Natalie Hollowell. But we can damn sure try our best. Our sons and daughters [i][u]need to hear that message loud and clear.

I am literally nauseous reading the posts trying to excuse this rapist.

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Anonymous wrote:I can understand the sentence. It was basically a hookup at a frat party gone wrong. It doesn't make sense to send one party to prison for years.. There's no way to know when she became unconscious, but it was probably later rather than sooner.

No, IT WAS A RAPE, you idiot

Do you think a woman ever bears any responsibility re staying sober, not trusting drunk strangers, not walking down a street at 2 a.m. alone, etc? We're not doing any favors to perpetuate the myth that women can be and do anything they want and go anywhere they want without being responsible for their own safety to the degree possible. That's beyond naive and truly not very smart.

Well lucky for you this woman got her comeuppance, huh? That'll teach her!!

You're misinterpreting what I said. Think what you want, but I believe women need to think smart for their own safety as much as is humanly possible. I think the same for men. No one deserves to be hurt, raped, killed, maimed, etc.; and no one can ever be completely safe.

If you're ever raped, I presume you'll blame yourself, then. Surely you would have done something that caused it to happen to you.

If you counsel young men and women in any capacity, I hope you'll instill the idea that we all need to be on the lookout for dangerous situations and not trust people who don't care what happens to us and may even cause harm. It's part of the basic teaching we share with middle and high school students re drug and alcohol safety. Doesn't mean we're assigning blame. It's about safety.

Stop talking

No the last post is 100% correct. Np here.

And yet you can also be incredibly mindful of your safety and still end up in the wrong place at the wrong time and get raped. No woman BEARS RESPONSIBILITY for being raped. Not one.

I don't think PP said she did.

Oh really? Because she specifically bolded the part where she did use the phrase BEARS RESPONSIBILITY

Every single woman in this thread knows she has at some point drank too much and if she has a daughter, her daughter will undoubtedly one night or more in college drink too much because that's what happens. You misjudge your tolerance, you're having a good time, and suddenly you're hammered. There but for the grace of God did I never end up raped behind a dumpster when I had too much to drink at 21, and same goes for all of you. And if you have a daughter who at some point will go to parties or bars, you need to think very, very carefully about assigning blame to this girl because it could happen to your daughter just as easily and I highly doubt you would be so sanguine about her "role" in being victimized as you are right now

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Anonymous wrote:I can understand the sentence. It was basically a hookup at a frat party gone wrong. It doesn't make sense to send one party to prison for years.. There's no way to know when she became unconscious, but it was probably later rather than sooner.

No, IT WAS A RAPE, you idiot

Do you think a woman ever bears any responsibility re staying sober, not trusting drunk strangers, not walking down a street at 2 a.m. alone, etc? We're not doing any favors to perpetuate the myth that women can be and do anything they want and go anywhere they want without being responsible for their own safety to the degree possible. That's beyond naive and truly not very smart.

Well lucky for you this woman got her comeuppance, huh? That'll teach her!!

You're misinterpreting what I said. Think what you want, but I believe women need to think smart for their own safety as much as is humanly possible. I think the same for men. No one deserves to be hurt, raped, killed, maimed, etc.; and no one can ever be completely safe.

If you're ever raped, I presume you'll blame yourself, then. Surely you would have done something that caused it to happen to you.

If you counsel young men and women in any capacity, I hope you'll instill the idea that we all need to be on the lookout for dangerous situations and not trust people who don't care what happens to us and may even cause harm. It's part of the basic teaching we share with middle and high school students re drug and alcohol safety. Doesn't mean we're assigning blame. It's about safety.

Stop talking

No the last post is 100% correct. Np here.

And yet you can also be incredibly mindful of your safety and still end up in the wrong place at the wrong time and get raped. No woman BEARS RESPONSIBILITY for being raped. Not one.

I don't think PP said she did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, he's a dirtbag, but so is the judge who decided a long prison sentence would have too severe an impact on him. Severe impact is exactly what this guy needs, not just a quick time out.

+1
Exactly!

I thought we were all in favor of prison reform?

Why not mandatory counseling instead of incarceration? It would likely lead to better outcomes.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can understand the sentence. It was basically a hookup at a frat party gone wrong. It doesn't make sense to send one party to prison for years.. There's no way to know when she became unconscious, but it was probably later rather than sooner.

No, IT WAS A RAPE, you idiot

Do you think a woman ever bears any responsibility re staying sober, not trusting drunk strangers, not walking down a street at 2 a.m. alone, etc? We're not doing any favors to perpetuate the myth that women can be and do anything they want and go anywhere they want without being responsible for their own safety to the degree possible. That's beyond naive and truly not very smart.

Well lucky for you this woman got her comeuppance, huh? That'll teach her!!

You're misinterpreting what I said. Think what you want, but I believe women need to think smart for their own safety as much as is humanly possible. I think the same for men. No one deserves to be hurt, raped, killed, maimed, etc.; and no one can ever be completely safe.

If you're ever raped, I presume you'll blame yourself, then. Surely you would have done something that caused it to happen to you.

If you counsel young men and women in any capacity, I hope you'll instill the idea that we all need to be on the lookout for dangerous situations and not trust people who don't care what happens to us and may even cause harm. It's part of the basic teaching we share with middle and high school students re drug and alcohol safety. Doesn't mean we're assigning blame. It's about safety.

Stop talking

No the last post is 100% correct. Np here.

And yet you can also be incredibly mindful of your safety and still end up in the wrong place at the wrong time and get raped. No woman BEARS RESPONSIBILITY for being raped. Not one.