Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I honestly do hope somebody sues NC. This case should go to SCOTUS. Discrimination of LGB will be ruled unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection clause, but there is no way transgenders demand to use bathrooms representing their gender identity when they are biologically male will ever pass constitutional muster. Granted no one will do underwear checks but it will never be a protected right.

I am certainly no expert on people who are transgender (and for the love of god, please stop referring to them as "transgenders") but I have a friend who has transitioned and I can assure you, the LAST THING a trans person would do is call attention to their biology in a bathroom, so your fear of a transgender woman wanting a URINAL in a woman's bathroom is about as likely as hell freezing over. What they want is what any other woman wants - to pee privately in a stall. So that's what your big fear is - a woman wanting to pee in a stall.

And speak for yourself about laughing at others. That speaks volumes about you and your character that you would actual write that and click submit. Tell someone to learn to ignore is an asshole statement.

You wait until someone leaves or go into one with an open door like the rest of us.

Do you really peer through the gap in the door to ascertain if someone is inside? At most you look under the door to see if you see feet.

And if they happen to be pointing the wrong way, you get to go home and tell people you were almost raped in the women's room.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am a woman and I can tell you that 9 out of 10 doors of the stalls are crooked and you can actually see a lot just passing by looking for an available stall. Also most public restrooms have stalls with partial walls I.e. They don't go from floor to sealing. So there are opportunities for peeping. I think the concern is about men posing as transgend

Please stop looking into bathroom stalls.

how can i find one available?

OP, here is your argument: "I don't think that people should be allowed to use the public restroom appropriate to their gender because I need to protect my child who is now a toddler from the possibility that some day a transgender woman might demand that women's restrooms have urinals."

Is that pearl clutching? I don't know. Is it a good argument? No.

Anonymous wrote:OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I find it a bit astounding that trans people are literally being attacked and killed in public places in this country while bystanders watch and...you think that trans women are going to lead a successful campaign for urinals in the nation's restrooms? I really mean this in the least sarcastic way possible. I can't tell whether you're serious or this is a parody.

If you really live in DC and go out in public frequently, I'd wager money that you've shared a bathroom with someone who was assigned male at birth and still has a penis.

I'm really not sure where this fantasy about urinals came from, I'm not really tracking your train of thought there. Your daughter is going to be a lot older than a toddler if this dream ever comes to fruition, because trans people are still being attacked and killed in front of bystanders in public...we're a little ways off from achieving the urinal dream. So I guess it'll be someone else's (improbable) problem, if that makes you feel better.

I find it interesting you are only concerned with people who are "biologically male." How do you feel about men with facial hair in the women's restroom?

I dunno, I'm just confused because someone commented to me this weekend that "the bathroom thing" at schools was enough to make any reasonable person start homeschooling. If you're transphobic, that's...not cool or understandable to me, but it's a thing that I can understand. What I don't get is the context in which some of these comments are made, like do you not realize this is already happening and you can't tell? You seem to think that a trans person will be easily identifiable to you but I think you might be surprised. The only thing that's being debated is whether to codify the rights and protections of trans people. It really has nothing to do with the general usage of the bathroom because this is already happening and will continue to happen unless you plan to stand at door asking people to pull down their pants for an inspection when they walk in the door. go ahead and make it illegal and the man with facial hair still isn't going to use the women's bathroom (although he should just to prove a point, maybe it would blow some minds). I guess it's a little more of a gray area with schools but it's still already happening.

OP here.
I'm not a pearl clutcher, but even if I was -- WHO CARES. The point is, will transgenders ask for urinals one day in womens bathrooms? To the ridiculous person who assumed I thought all men use urinals only, stop assuming. I am asking if it is a possibility in the future. Why couldn't it be? How many of you who are fine with transgenders using womens bathrooms will also be fine with biological men using urinals in front of you or your children?

Transgender folks - I am truly sorry for the hardship you endure, but your right to pee, possibly even at a urinal, in front of my toddler does not trump my right to protect my daughter from seeing this. If you want to be bold enough to don a skirt and high heels and a red wig, then you should know people will stare or laugh. It's unusual to see a 6' man dressed like this. Learn to ignore. If you are at risk of being raped in the mens bathroom, then the mens bathroom needs a full time attendant; it shouldn't be the women's problem to accommodate you in their bathroom. You are biologically male and the mens bathroom is for people who are biologically male, regardless of how they like
to dress.

I honestly do hope somebody sues NC. This case should go to SCOTUS. Discrimination of LGB will be ruled unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection clause, but there is no way transgenders demand to use bathrooms representing their gender identity when they are biologically male will ever pass constitutional muster. Granted no one will do underwear checks but it will never be a protected right.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your problem is that you are trying to make sense out of nonsense. There is nothing to "get."

Transgenderism is a mental disorder, disturbance, illness-- depending on severity level in the individual. Nothing has changed there; that has always been the case. The fact that there are now calls to recognize this condition as OK -- and in fact, to call on the remainder of society to treat it as OK, by adjusting laws that affect everyone -- says more about our current culture than it does about transgenderism.

I agree 1,000%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not understand all this worry about men in the woman's bathroom. Being a woman, I've been in women's bathrooms. There is nothing to see there. Just some woman standing in front of a sink, washing their hands and putting on lip stick. Women's bathrooms have stalls. It wouldn't matter if normal men came in. They won't see anything.

I am a woman and I can tell you that 9 out of 10 doors of the stalls are crooked and you can actually see a lot just passing by looking for an available stall. Also most public restrooms have stalls with partial walls I.e. They don't go from floor to sealing. So there are opportunities for peeping. I think the concern is about men posing as transgend

If someone is peeping over or under the bathroom stalls, unless they are a toddler, then they are already in violation of the law. If someone is around to enforce the law, that person is already able to arrest them. There doesn't need to be a law targeting innocent transgender people to arrest them. On the other hand, if there's no one around the enforce the law, then why would you think that someone with such disregard for the law as to climb over or under a stall to peep, would follow a different law?

Anonymous wrote:

I am a woman and I can tell you that 9 out of 10 doors of the stalls are crooked and you can actually see a lot just passing by looking for an available stall. Also most public restrooms have stalls with partial walls I.e. They don't go from floor to sealing. So there are opportunities for peeping. I think the concern is about men posing as transgend

Please stop looking into bathroom stalls.

Anonymous wrote:I personally am not concerned about where people go to the bathroom, and am happy to respect people's right to do what makes them happy. However, I do have some difficulty understanding how someone can know if they feel like a man or woman inside. I don.t. My 71 year old mom says she doesn't. My 40 year old sister who
spent a year at the age of 5 dressing and going by a male name says she doesn't, and that she just lost interest in the idea of being a boy after a while.

I am also concerned about the negative aspects of accepting cultural gender stereotypes about maleness and femaleness that seem somewhat inherent in all of this.

That's like me saying, "I do have some difficulty understanding how somebody can be upset when the sports team they're a fan of loses. I don't."

I actually do have difficulty understanding this, but nonetheless I acknowledge that people do feel this way.

Anonymous wrote:I personally am not concerned about where people go to the bathroom, and am happy to respect people's right to do what makes them happy. However, I do have some difficulty understanding how someone can know if they feel like a man or woman inside. I don.t. My 71 year old mom says she doesn't. My 40 year old sister who
spent a year at the age of 5 dressing and going by a male name says she doesn't, and that she just lost interest in the idea of being a boy after a while.

I am also concerned about the negative aspects of accepting cultural gender stereotypes about maleness and femaleness that seem somewhat inherent in all of this.

This is my feeling. In other words, please don't call me "cis." I can't understand transgender identity. That said, I think people should be able to wear the clothes they want, act in the way they want, get the surgery they want, call themselves what they want, and go to the bathroom where they feel like they belong.

Anonymous wrote:I am all for this as long as I can start using the men's room when the women's line is to long!

I already do.

I am all for this as long as I can start using the men's room when the women's line is to long!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^This.

I don't see why this is so hard to understand. I was born female and I identify as female. My parts are female (sex) and I feel female (gender). Easy for me because stuff matches up.

Frankly I don't personally care what bathroom I use or what other people use because everyone has the right to express their identity, whether or not I understand it.

Additionally, I think single sex bathrooms are dumb. It's not like we have them at home.

Well, I for one do not want to share a bathroom with male-identified males. Especially at work! I do NOT want to see my boss in the ladies' room! Other than that, I have not problem with anyone female-identified using the women's room.

What WOULD be nice at work would be a one-person private bathroom on every floor.

Uh, what if your boss is female?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can not understand all this worry about men in the woman's bathroom. Being a woman, I've been in women's bathrooms. There is nothing to see there. Just some woman standing in front of a sink, washing their hands and putting on lip stick. Women's bathrooms have stalls. It wouldn't matter if normal men came in. They won't see anything.

I am a woman and I can tell you that 9 out of 10 doors of the stalls are crooked and you can actually see a lot just passing by looking for an available stall. Also most public restrooms have stalls with partial walls I.e. They don't go from floor to sealing. So there are opportunities for peeping. I think the concern is about men posing as transgend

Seriously?!?! What is there to see in that crack on the door -- some woman sitting (or hovering, as covered in another thread) on the toilet fully clothed? Do you get a flash of vagina for like 1.2 seconds while pants are pulled up? This seems a bit far fetched to me ...