Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 20:21     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:1. A lifetime of not having to prove how smart you are...especially important for women.

2. Some organizations only hire Ivies (especially in high-level finance and top law firms)

3. You never have to apologize for where you went.
(For example...why would you go to Bates and pay private tuition when a great state university would be cheaper/better).

4. If you have to ask...




Wow. This, +100.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 18:20     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, comprehensive, universal access. Different to such a degree that those who did not graduate from an Ivy or something very, very close really do not understand.



I went to Harvard. I don't understand. I guess I slept through the lecture on the secret handshake.


I think pp was joking.


See? That Harvard education is useless. I missed the humor seminar, too.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 18:15     Subject: Re:What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Everyone really needs to read "Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be" by Frank Bruni


Also "Excellent Sheep" by Deresiewicz


+100

However, I'm not naive or idealistic enough to pretend that there is not immense value in attending an Ivy.


No one disputes that--the question is, is it significantly better (some would say, in a lasting way), compared to attending a non-Ivy top university or SLAC?

And in terms of the network...don't forget that these days, 90% of the people who apply to Ivys are rejected. That's a lot of people out there who may be less likely to value your alma mater.


I dispute it. I went to an Ivy. I posted above that it is helpful early in your career. But now I can't see it's of any value. And I can't really see that it was of much value other than it got me interviews by people who were impressed I went to an Ivy. But I had to get the jobs.

If your kid likes Bates, go to Bates, if you can afford it. I don't think going to HYPS will give your kid much of an advantage over Bates. Plus some people HATE Harvard. A friend of mine hated every minute there. He's a genius BTW, but he wishes he'd gone to Wesleyan or somewhere smaller.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 17:22     Subject: Re:What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:re: Penn State

It's a perfectly fine school. I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could find your niche at PSU and have an amazing intellectually stimulating experience there and perhaps even dabble in cutting-edge research, but you would be more of an exception than the rule. No specific data to back that claim up, just basing that on my own experience growing up in PA and knowing many, many PSU grads. And even considering it for myself at one point.

You don't think there would be any meaningful differences between the experience at a top 10-15 school on your list vs. 75-100? Better research options? Better funding/corporate support? And I'm sorry to say that the "prestige" does help with all of those things. Attracting innovators, investors, etc.

Sorry, I just don't see it as being comparable.


See the statistics in the Times World Ranking of Universities - it seems a lot of research is going on at PSU and Pitt, my alma mater (Incidentally, Pitt along with Army and Navy were considered for membership in the Ivy League at its founding). The Ivy League like the SEC, Big East or PAC-10 is a sports league, nothing else.



I did look at your list and I was asking about the top 10-15 vs. 75-100. You don't think there are discernible differences in the research environments?

Agree that Ivy League is just a sports league. However, many people do have hangups (good and bad) about it.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 16:38     Subject: Re:What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:re: Penn State

It's a perfectly fine school. I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could find your niche at PSU and have an amazing intellectually stimulating experience there and perhaps even dabble in cutting-edge research, but you would be more of an exception than the rule. No specific data to back that claim up, just basing that on my own experience growing up in PA and knowing many, many PSU grads. And even considering it for myself at one point.

You don't think there would be any meaningful differences between the experience at a top 10-15 school on your list vs. 75-100? Better research options? Better funding/corporate support? And I'm sorry to say that the "prestige" does help with all of those things. Attracting innovators, investors, etc.

Sorry, I just don't see it as being comparable.


See the statistics in the Times World Ranking of Universities - it seems a lot of research is going on at PSU and Pitt, my alma mater (Incidentally, Pitt along with Army and Navy were considered for membership in the Ivy League at its founding). The Ivy League like the SEC, Big East or PAC-10 is a sports league, nothing else.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 16:27     Subject: Re:What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Another recent Cornell grad here and I completely agree, PP. The reputation is fine enough for me (although I fully realize that some in other Ivies may scoff at it), and although the connections didn't get me my jobs, I've seen how they work. As a minority from a low-SES background, having a Cornell degree rocketed me out of poverty and for that I am extremely grateful. At my first post-grad job at a large government agency, my supervisor actually admitted that's why she hired me, sight unseen and without an interview.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 13:26     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Well, I went to Cornell, one of the land grant colleges (I was a NYS resident). It was the best school I could get into AND afford. My parents didn't have the money to send me to any sort of private school and the SUNY schools weren't that great at the time. I was able to graduate with minimal debt and I received a challenging, wonderful education.

OTOH, a lot of people sh*t all over Cornell for not being exclusive enough (see previous comments about SUNY Ithaca) so the reputation doesn't do that much for me. Instead, all of the benefit I got was the actual education I received.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 13:20     Subject: Re:What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
re: Penn State

It's a perfectly fine school. I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could find your niche at PSU and have an amazing intellectually stimulating experience there and perhaps even dabble in cutting-edge research, but you would be more of an exception than the rule. No specific data to back that claim up, just basing that on my own experience growing up in PA and knowing many, many PSU grads. And even considering it for myself at one point.

You don't think there would be any meaningful differences between the experience at a top 10-15 school on your list vs. 75-100? Better research options? Better funding/corporate support? And I'm sorry to say that the "prestige" does help with all of those things. Attracting innovators, investors, etc.

Sorry, I just don't see it as being comparable.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 13:18     Subject: Re:What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Everyone really needs to read "Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be" by Frank Bruni


Also "Excellent Sheep" by Deresiewicz


+100

However, I'm not naive or idealistic enough to pretend that there is not immense value in attending an Ivy.


No one disputes that--the question is, is it significantly better (some would say, in a lasting way), compared to attending a non-Ivy top university or SLAC?

And in terms of the network...don't forget that these days, 90% of the people who apply to Ivys are rejected. That's a lot of people out there who may be less likely to value your alma mater.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 12:07     Subject: Re:What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Everyone really needs to read "Where You Go Is Not Who You'll Be" by Frank Bruni


Also "Excellent Sheep" by Deresiewicz


+100

However, I'm not naive or idealistic enough to pretend that there is not immense value in attending an Ivy.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 11:50     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:1. A lifetime of not having to prove how smart you are...especially important for women.

2. Some organizations only higher Ivies (especially in high-level finance and top law firms)

3. You never have to apologize for where you went.
(For example...why would you go to Bates and pay private tuition when a great state university would be cheaper/better).

4. If you have to ask...


This person gets it. Number one is huge and NEVER really brought up.


Really? Is that why the 45 year old Ivy League boor the next office over from still manages to work where she went to school into every conversation and that's why she so smarter than everyone else? Puhleeze!
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 10:12     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Guy sitting in the office next to me, doing the same job I am doing, went to Harvard undergrad and Princeton grad. I went to state schools for both undergrad and grad. I guess he missed the secret handshake, too.
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 10:11     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
^^sorry, "anyone talking about judges...is clearly demonstrating *her* ignorance."
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 10:10     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:I'm not convinced by most of the posts on this thread. How can you possibly know what your life would have been like had you not gone to an Ivy? I went to HYP and I think I got a fine education. But connections? They help initially, but not after that. I have a lot of friends who graduated from Ivies. None is particularly successful. The Harvard grads did move quickly right after graduation, but by mid-career, we're pretty indistinguishable from those unlucky souls who went to "lesser" schools. No failures, but no CEOs or US Presidents in my circle.
DCUM posters are a competitive lot. Not representative of the average Ivy grad.



...and, in fact, your anecdotal experience is completely supported by the research, which finds that--except for poor and minority students--there is no lasting advantage to attending an elite college/university. This thread is a lot of nonsense. And anyone talking about judges/justices only hiring clerks from Harvard and Yale are clearly demonstrating their ignorance. Those anecdotes actually undercut your argument (since what matters to those judges isn't where the clerks went to undergrad, but where they went to LAW SCHOOL).
Anonymous
Post 04/05/2016 10:09     Subject: What's the REAL difference between an Ivy and any other decent private university
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Immediate, comprehensive, universal access. Different to such a degree that those who did not graduate from an Ivy or something very, very close really do not understand.



I went to Harvard. I don't understand. I guess I slept through the lecture on the secret handshake.


Yeah, me too. I have a degree from Oxford and I still have plenty of people who don't return my phone calls and e-mails. I do not have this fabled immediate, comprehensive, universal access of which you speak.