Anonymous wrote:This is OP. There seem to be a lot of people here who feel that I'm out to get this guy, that I'm going to somehow use this fact against him or file a complaint or trip him up, and then there are a number of people who feel that I'm oversensitive or pitiful or whatever.

I'm trying to help this guy.

I get that some of you think this is a character-plus for him, a show of respect that he calls women by an honorific. But it comes across very badly. It's jarring to be in a meeting and have someone say "Ma'am, I'd like to call your attention to -- " Our clients don't like it. We are a client service unit. It really doesn't matter that you think or people think this is polite. It doesn't work for us.

Anonymous wrote:I'd make a joke it and respond "Yes, sir!" every time.

Or I'd just chuckle, and say "Hey Bob, I gotta tell you - we really are a first name only kind of agency. I know you've got a more formal background, but if you're gonna stick around here, first names are the way to go."

And then I'd correct him every time after that, ie -

*Knock, knock" "Hi, Ma'am, I had a -"
"Susie, Bob, it's Susie. My name is Susie."
"Okay, well yes Ma'am. I just had this -"
"No Bob, really it's Susie, just Susie, not Susie Ma'am"

Anonymous wrote:Op again -- I haven't reported and posts. But that attitude is a prime example of what I'm talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, just some. I have been out of the military for 22 years, and I still sometimes slip into Sir/Ma'am. That respect is beaten in to you from before the moment you get off the bus at basic. I don't think he means anything by it, any more than opening a door for a woman would be meant as anything more than being polite. If it really bothers you, ask him about it. Ask him why he does it. Then maybe you can find a beef with his motive, but not on generalizations.

The difference is, you use both sir and ma'am. You don't call every man by their first name and every woman ma'am. All the time.

Quoted PP here. actually, I don't count what I do. I may actually say ma'am more just based on the type of interaction I am having. For me, it is reflexive for me to say either when I am speaking to someone to whom I am trying to show deference or respect. Just saying, without knowing the context in which this veteran is saying it, you just don't know. I likened it to opening a door for a woman. It may just him being polite and showing respect/deference. I can't stand that he is being thrown under the bus for being respectful. Maybe it is just taking him longer to get to calling a woman by her first name. I have the same problem with people older than me. It just doesn't feel right the way I was raised.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I've thought about taking him out, but after reading this thread, I'm afraid to risk being viewed as a precious snowflake, a whiner, a pathetic idiot, a NOW spokeswoman, or a feminist freak rather than someone who was trying to help him out.

Several people gave you useful scripts and recommendations and you haven't responded to any of them. Instead, you just had a bunch of posts removed wondering why you weren't responding to any of the helpful posts and are continuing to only respond to the negative ones. So I, again, question whether you're just trolling, even though it means my post will, again, be deleted by Jeff at your request.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, just some. I have been out of the military for 22 years, and I still sometimes slip into Sir/Ma'am. That respect is beaten in to you from before the moment you get off the bus at basic. I don't think he means anything by it, any more than opening a door for a woman would be meant as anything more than being polite. If it really bothers you, ask him about it. Ask him why he does it. Then maybe you can find a beef with his motive, but not on generalizations.

The difference is, you use both sir and ma'am. You don't call every man by their first name and every woman ma'am. All the time.

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, just some. I have been out of the military for 22 years, and I still sometimes slip into Sir/Ma'am. That respect is beaten in to you from before the moment you get off the bus at basic. I don't think he means anything by it, any more than opening a door for a woman would be meant as anything more than being polite. If it really bothers you, ask him about it. Ask him why he does it. Then maybe you can find a beef with his motive, but not on generalizations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how to determine who's comfortableness trumps? He is uncomfortable interacting with women without using respectful phrase and the women are uncomfortable with him being respectful... who must be made uncomfortable in order to make the other party happy? Does the principle of equity apply? In other words, who is most capable of incurring the loss of comfort? That person should be the one to absorb to discomfort? Are the women saying that he must change because it is too much for them the bare? While most may not realize it, if that is what is really being concluded this is an anti-feminist position because it means that women require men to make them comfortable.

Doesn't the fact that everyone at the agency calls each other by their first name indicate which experience should trump?

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I've thought about taking him out, but after reading this thread, I'm afraid to risk being viewed as a precious snowflake, a whiner, a pathetic idiot, a NOW spokeswoman, or a feminist freak rather than someone who was trying to help him out.