Anonymous wrote:We build stuff that works.

We are the reason the planes fly, the power is on, the bridges and buildings stay up, the trains, cars, and trucks work, the computers exist, etc. etc. etc.

Without us you'd be living in a mud hut doing back-breaking labor every day and living one bad harvest from your whole tribe starving to death.

You're welcome!

Yeah and the rest of us are the reason you get paychecks. The engineers I know and work with may be good at what they do but they are completely useless at anything organizational or interpersonal. And they completely lack the self awareness to recognize that their skills are only marketable when leveraged in an organization that is producing something and functioning effectively in society.

We build stuff that works.

We are the reason the planes fly, the power is on, the bridges and buildings stay up, the trains, cars, and trucks work, the computers exist, etc. etc. etc.

Without us you'd be living in a mud hut doing back-breaking labor every day and living one bad harvest from your whole tribe starving to death.

You're welcome!

Why are you digging up dead threads just to pick a fight?

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don't mean to be arrogant. We are just used to dealing with questions that have a right answer. Because we want to get to that right answer, we learn to speak very bluntly to each other, knowing that others will not be offended because they too want to get to the right answer. However, once you move away from the sciences, many things do not have just one right answer. Sometimes they don't have any right answer. The blunt speech we learn to use at our work then doesn't serve us well.

I think this way overstates the certainty and objectivity of both science and engineering...most progress is made on hunches even in these areas. I think bluntness that borders on rudeness is just a cultural thing that no one cares to change. You can be direct without being rude...not all scientists and engineers are.

--signed, woman with advanced degrees in Physics and in Engineering

Your post, though, is evidence on my side.

--signed, woman with a Ph.D. in Physics and a very high salary.

Who ever states the salary they earn, on a site or to anyone particular is an enormous Looser. And yes I am being polite. Physics, high salary, who cares, do what you love and enjoy everyday. Life is to short. Teach others, mentor just be a good person. Or just keep being arrogant, and see what your life ends up to be.

I was in weekly meetings with engineers for the entire length of my first pregnancy, and literally, the day before I gave birth, the one who I sat next to every single week for the whole duration asked me why I was going to be out of the office. And was shocked when I said I was having a baby. I mean, I looked like I swallowed a beach ball, they threw me a baby shower the week before, there was an office pool going on boy vs girl... it wasn't that he didn't want to offend me by assuming I was pregnant when I wasn't. He was just in his own world, focused on his work.

Engineers are beyond smart in so many ways, and so incredibly focused. It doesn't come across to me as arrogance.

Engineers are arrogant because we know EVERYTHING. Just deal with it. 'k?

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't found engineers to be overly arrogant. Doctors, especially surgeons - yikes.

+1 -- FWIW -- I'm the mom of 2 budding engineers (now in college) whose grandfather -- my dad -- is a surgeon

and, BTW, at the university my kids attend, there are lots of socially adept engineering profs and students, both male and female -- they're geeks, but not nerds, and actually, quite a few of them are athletic, outdoorsy types

Agreed. I work with a lot of doctors and holy crap! Painfully arrogant, so many of them.

Engineers, not so much. But I have a bias, since my husband's a very geeky engineer.

The difference is that we (engineers) don't get paid a damned thing and doctors do.
Working 8 years, masters degree, 70 hour weeks - salary is less than a teacher and certainly no OT, no bonus of any kind and no summers off.
Busted my ass in school too.
It's not like anyone realizes what you do either, even if it's a matter of national importance.
Engineers can be arrogant but often just to each other (which is a pain) but to others? Not sure I notice that
but maybe the arrogance comes in place of a decent wage.
(And if you don't like your wage - some guy/gal from India will do your work for cheap until he gets deported)

I have to disagree. I am a scientist (not an engineer, but the salaries are similar in my field vs. EE). I make more -- much more than any public school teacher. We hire people with MS's at about 75K -80K, and PhD's at about 100K. I am making closer to 200K.

That is decent money.

Wow. I'm a physicist, top schools, barely pulling 100k. Wish I knew where you were...I'd come work for you!

How much experience? Can you bring in your own work/market yourself?

For me, I am cleared, 20 years experience (post PhD), and I am able to define solutions to critical problems -- which leads to larger scale systems. Generally, my ideas bring in about 5 mil per year in revenue (not all to me, of course).

I work in the federal government, 10 years experience post PhD. It's interesting to hear from other physicists, whom it seems generally make far more than I do. Being in the government I never even thought about my work in terms of its potential to bring in revenue.

I am wondering if it's time to leave for private industry.

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Physicists don't make jack. I always wince when friends tell me their offspring are studying physics in college. It's a GREAT education, but don't plan on it as a career track.

I am a physicist (PhD); I make 200K. My work is more in the applied sciences, though.

This, DH and I both have PhDs in physics with a HHI of over $500K. We both work for for-profit companies, but we directly use the knowledge from our degrees.

Why kind of for-profit industries are we talking here? Aerospace? Biotech? Pharm?

Anything that is building systems hires physicists (or similar fields) to help ensure stupid things are not happening. The thing about physics is it covers everything -- Electricity & Mag, Continuum Mechanics, sound in air, water and earth, etc. We are generalists.

Now, if you want to focus on basic research, your options are limited, as there is no profit motive.

Hi there. I'm a physicist, 10 years post PhD (MIT), and female in case anyone is wondering. I make just over $100k working in policy type stuff. I'd welcome suggestions of things that pay better and where I could use my skills more directly. I know this thread is a few months old.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Physicists don't make jack. I always wince when friends tell me their offspring are studying physics in college. It's a GREAT education, but don't plan on it as a career track.

I am a physicist (PhD); I make 200K. My work is more in the applied sciences, though.

This, DH and I both have PhDs in physics with a HHI of over $500K. We both work for for-profit companies, but we directly use the knowledge from our degrees.

Why kind of for-profit industries are we talking here? Aerospace? Biotech? Pharm?

Anything that is building systems hires physicists (or similar fields) to help ensure stupid things are not happening. The thing about physics is it covers everything -- Electricity & Mag, Continuum Mechanics, sound in air, water and earth, etc. We are generalists.

Now, if you want to focus on basic research, your options are limited, as there is no profit motive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Physicists don't make jack. I always wince when friends tell me their offspring are studying physics in college. It's a GREAT education, but don't plan on it as a career track.

I am a physicist (PhD); I make 200K. My work is more in the applied sciences, though.

This, DH and I both have PhDs in physics with a HHI of over $500K. We both work for for-profit companies, but we directly use the knowledge from our degrees.

Why kind of for-profit industries are we talking here? Aerospace? Biotech? Pharm?

I've worked with many Physicists. They make the same as Engineers.

And no, the women are not stupid and easy....that's the most ridiculous generalization I've ever heard, but by all means, spread that rumor and good luck getting all of that sweet female physicist action! In case you're wondering, discussions like this are why there are so few women in these fields.

Physics / engineering +MS making $135k in my early 30s. I think that's pretty good

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Physicists don't make jack. I always wince when friends tell me their offspring are studying physics in college. It's a GREAT education, but don't plan on it as a career track.

I am a physicist (PhD); I make 200K. My work is more in the applied sciences, though.

This, DH and I both have PhDs in physics with a HHI of over $500K. We both work for for-profit companies, but we directly use the knowledge from our degrees.

I had a female engineer friend who said girls in physics were all the dumb pretty ones since physics is easy.

Case of sour grapes on her part, perhaps?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't found engineers to be overly arrogant. Doctors, especially surgeons - yikes.

+1 -- FWIW -- I'm the mom of 2 budding engineers (now in college) whose grandfather -- my dad -- is a surgeon

and, BTW, at the university my kids attend, there are lots of socially adept engineering profs and students, both male and female -- they're geeks, but not nerds, and actually, quite a few of them are athletic, outdoorsy types

Agreed. I work with a lot of doctors and holy crap! Painfully arrogant, so many of them.

Engineers, not so much. But I have a bias, since my husband's a very geeky engineer.

The difference is that we (engineers) don't get paid a damned thing and doctors do.
Working 8 years, masters degree, 70 hour weeks - salary is less than a teacher and certainly no OT, no bonus of any kind and no summers off.
Busted my ass in school too.
It's not like anyone realizes what you do either, even if it's a matter of national importance.
Engineers can be arrogant but often just to each other (which is a pain) but to others? Not sure I notice that
but maybe the arrogance comes in place of a decent wage.
(And if you don't like your wage - some guy/gal from India will do your work for cheap until he gets deported)

I have to disagree. I am a scientist (not an engineer, but the salaries are similar in my field vs. EE). I make more -- much more than any public school teacher. We hire people with MS's at about 75K -80K, and PhD's at about 100K. I am making closer to 200K.

That is decent money.

Wow. I'm a physicist, top schools, barely pulling 100k. Wish I knew where you were...I'd come work for you!

Physicists don't make jack. I always wince when friends tell me their offspring are studying physics in college. It's a GREAT education, but don't plan on it as a career track.

I am a physicist (PhD); I make 200K. My work is more in the applied sciences, though.