Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are 100% certain you won't take care of her, don't let her stay with you after a hospital stay or you will be stuck with her for a while. It sounds awful to say but hospitals need to discharge patients and will push/guilt you in to taking your parent.

I am sorry but this sounds horrible. We are talking about a parent here. What has gone so wrong that we are ready to toss our elderly and vulnerable parents out on the streets. This is sad.

You don't know what you're talking about unless you lived it. My mother and I have a tense relationship, but I'd give her whatever help she needed. We already provide significant financial support to my FIL, even though his current situation is entirely his own fault and he's incredibly entitled about it. I'd walk through fire to help my MIL, she's amazing. But when my father was getting discharged from an in-patient rehab center (physical rehab, not substance abuse unfortunately) and the doctor was heavily pressuring me to take him in because he was homeless at that point, I said no. I said no because some people are so incredibly toxic and abusive that the level of harm and destruction they bring to you is simply unbearable. He was not just a falling-down drunk who would do things like pee, shit and vomit all over the place and leave it there for others to clean, who would tell such gross and awful lies about me to other people that I once ended up with the police at my door due to a story he'd made up about me, but he also came onto me more than once in very explicit ways as a young adult. I stayed in the picture enough to ensure he moved through the social services system (they found a halfway house for him to go to), but that was as close to it as I could get. There was no way I could even talk to him, let alone let him live with me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are 100% certain you won't take care of her, don't let her stay with you after a hospital stay or you will be stuck with her for a while. It sounds awful to say but hospitals need to discharge patients and will push/guilt you in to taking your parent.

I am sorry but this sounds horrible. We are talking about a parent here. What has gone so wrong that we are ready to toss our elderly and vulnerable parents out on the streets. This is sad.

Will the hospital toss her out on the street???

No, I found that out with my father-in-law. He wasnt a good father. He beat my husband with belts, electrical cords, etc. Also made him work under the table starting at age 11 on construction jobs and took all his wages. When my husband got into college he told my husband he was selfish for not working to give money to him. He had a stroke and moved in with my sweet sister in law who is a single mom who works two jobs. He was verbally abusive toward her. She would have to leave work when he would fall at their apartment or would call and say he had a toileting accident and she needed to come change him. One day he started feeling dizzy so my husband called 911 to take him to the hospital so she could have a break. We told her we would support her if she couldn't take him back. We met with the hospital social worker and they really pushed her hard to take him back. Luckily he was in th hospital for over 3 days so he got to rehab hospital for 30 days. Then from there to a nursing home that accepts Medicaid. He is in a room with two other men in a run down facility.

I'm 10 years younger than Op's mom. How old do my kids have to be before I can kick back and expect them to take care of me?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My husband had a crappy childhood. We took in his mom - why? We would want our child to do the same if we needed it and you need to set a good example. Even if you can afford care, there is still a lot of time/work involved in managing someone's life. I am the poster who took the MIL and got her into a nursing home. I easily spend 5-10 hours many (not all) weeks between visiting and managing her care/needs. I do it as my child watches everything I do and copies it. And, regardless of everything he deserves a relationship with his grandparents.

I suppose his mother is reasonably well behaved. But what if she drank, played loud music all the time, walked into your bedroom at all hours, stayed up all night, prevented your child from doing their homework and was generally extremely rude. What if, when you asked her not to do that, she started yelling, swearing, and kicking? Would you still take her in?

My MIL had moderate to severe dementia... It was an absolute nightmare for me. It was 24/7 care, from feeding, to bathing to cooking to supervising. Wars as she had a tv in her room and she insisted on watching Law and Order SVU in our living room with our young kids around (small house, only sitting area). She'd be pure mean to me (it was the dementia). There were constant accidents (not her fault but medication). I did it as long as I could till a nursing home took her. I would do it again if I had to. Her other son who lived closer abandoned her and wouldn't even check on her every few months.

You did a good thing and I'm glad it's worked out for your family. But what if your DH, because of years of dealing with dysfunction and a genetic predisposition to anxiety or other mental health disorders, had found himself floundering with his mother in your household? And was cranky, unhappy, stressed out, on edge, all the time? Would you still have kept her there, even if your DH's distress was having an emotional effect on your children?

Because if my parents came to live with me, I would be a mental health case and would need serious therapy. I'd be a terrible mother around my kids if I had to deal with them on a daily basis. They get under my skin and are affect my emontional stability. I moved across the country in part so as not to have to interact with them in person except for once or twice a year, and that has saved my sanity. My siblings who did not move away have all have problems functioning as adults.

So while I applaud what you've done and recognize it wasn't easy for you, please don't assume that your experience can be the model for everyone else's.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are 100% certain you won't take care of her, don't let her stay with you after a hospital stay or you will be stuck with her for a while. It sounds awful to say but hospitals need to discharge patients and will push/guilt you in to taking your parent.

I am sorry but this sounds horrible. We are talking about a parent here. What has gone so wrong that we are ready to toss our elderly and vulnerable parents out on the streets. This is sad.

+10000000. Seriously, this is so awful. I hope I raise my children to have a heart.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom, it's not going to work to think you're going to live with us. And we can't afford to support you. But let's make a game plan and figure out what kind of benefits you're entitled to and what the care options are.

Are you an only child?

No, I have a brother. (Op here). He's the golden child and I'm the other one. Anyone who has researched narcissism is familiar with that term? He lives in a one bedroom apartment so she couldn't move there.

Then you tell your mom that she should ask your brother how he is going to help her. If she says something about you being mean or selfish, tell her that's right, you are and really why break tradition now?

And then write a note and post it in a prominent place "Even if I get the best private care for my Mom and make sure I am at her beck and call, I will never be the golden child."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are 100% certain you won't take care of her, don't let her stay with you after a hospital stay or you will be stuck with her for a while. It sounds awful to say but hospitals need to discharge patients and will push/guilt you in to taking your parent.

I am sorry but this sounds horrible. We are talking about a parent here. What has gone so wrong that we are ready to toss our elderly and vulnerable parents out on the streets. This is sad.

Will the hospital toss her out on the street???

Anonymous wrote:If you are 100% certain you won't take care of her, don't let her stay with you after a hospital stay or you will be stuck with her for a while. It sounds awful to say but hospitals need to discharge patients and will push/guilt you in to taking your parent.

I am sorry but this sounds horrible. We are talking about a parent here. What has gone so wrong that we are ready to toss our elderly and vulnerable parents out on the streets. This is sad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes we can be more giving and loving to other people even if they were not able to give us the same thing in exchange. You could ignore her; you can help her navigate bureaucracy, or you could accept that she failed as a mother but she is still your mother and you are a stronger and bigger person who is able to help her out. Most people would do one of the first two, but you do have the option of doing the third. Who else is going to take care of her? Leave a bureaucrat to do it?

Why does your response to her have to be perfectly reciprocal? I take care of my child the right way, even if I think 40 years from now she might abandon me as an old woman. I do it because it's my duty as a mother. It's called moral responsibility.

But what if the person you are bringing into your home is toxic? What if they break things, stay up all night making noise, constantly criticize you, leave food laying all around, prevent your child from studying? What if, when you ask them to stop these things, they yell, scream, cry, and generally act up? What if they seem incapable of understanding common manners?

I wasn't suggesting that OP let herself get abused; just that she could do more than simply point her mother in the direction of medicaid. for example, do some paperwork, send her a small check every now and then, check in on her. not suggesting she let someone toxic wreck her life.

Op's mom is a 60 year old nurse. She probably knows more about medicare/medicaid than Op does. Op has not said that her mom has dementia or any other health problem. She already lives in an apartment and she is within 5 years of retirement. Would social security and her monthly pension be enough for her to live off of?

I don't understand why there is so much talk about moving across the country to live with Op...sounds like the woman is fending for herself now. Let her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes we can be more giving and loving to other people even if they were not able to give us the same thing in exchange. You could ignore her; you can help her navigate bureaucracy, or you could accept that she failed as a mother but she is still your mother and you are a stronger and bigger person who is able to help her out. Most people would do one of the first two, but you do have the option of doing the third. Who else is going to take care of her? Leave a bureaucrat to do it?

Why does your response to her have to be perfectly reciprocal? I take care of my child the right way, even if I think 40 years from now she might abandon me as an old woman. I do it because it's my duty as a mother. It's called moral responsibility.

But what if the person you are bringing into your home is toxic? What if they break things, stay up all night making noise, constantly criticize you, leave food laying all around, prevent your child from studying? What if, when you ask them to stop these things, they yell, scream, cry, and generally act up? What if they seem incapable of understanding common manners?

I wasn't suggesting that OP let herself get abused; just that she could do more than simply point her mother in the direction of medicaid. for example, do some paperwork, send her a small check every now and then, check in on her. not suggesting she let someone toxic wreck her life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think you owe her the assistance of navigating bureaucracy. I would start now.

+1

What if you know nothing about navigating bureaucracy?

It's not that hard. Honestly.
I posted before about working in this area. Medicaid SSI are made to be user friendly due to the population they overwhelmingly serve. Think about the millions of people who have little to no education who benefit from these services.
OP can definitely do it.

I'm sure that it's "not that hard". But if you don't work in that industry or have never used services like that before yourself it is foreign territory.

How do you think millions of high school drop outs who are illiterate manage to get food stamps and free housing? I'm not trying to be derogatory, but the system is set up to serve people that actually cannot take care of themselves in the most basic of ways: food, clothing and shelter. It is NOT like trying to figure out a mortgage. It is literally (and I hate to use that word) made for people with less than a 3rd grade reading level.

Have you ever applied for services? It is not easy. Its actually worse than applying for a mortgage as the workers often sit on things and it takes forever to get approved. I handed my husband the long term medicaid paperwork after I had it....he gave it back after an hour and could not figure out many things. I did it in about 20-30 minutes but that's because I understand the system. It took me months of back and forth to get the long term medicaid. I go back and forth monthly with the workers on what is covered, finances with the nursing home and it takes lots of follow up calls to the worker and supervisor to get anything done (there is one good worker out of three we've had). You have to submit paperwork and then they claim they did not get it or it is the wrong stuff. I usually sent it fax, regular and certified mail and sometimes dropped it off too... It was a full time job trying to get an id, social security and medicare transferred, finding new doctors and appointments, food stamps, medicaid, long term medicaid, finding a nursing home, buying her everything she needed that was stolen from her... not to mention 24/7 care. I had to bring in another relative to care for my kids for a month to just get things settled. Now I spend a lot of time managing the nursing home, doctors, finances and benefits.

You are to be highly commended, pp. I was the poster who said you were a caring DIL. We are going through this process now for DH's father and it takes a lot of time, patience and money to do it right.

Anonymous wrote:Have you considered whether you could afford getting her a long-term care insurance policy and taking charge of paying for it yourself? It might be worth it if you can afford it, to have the peace of mind to know that if she needs help with the activities of daily living down the road, that she can get some or most of that covered. She may end up needing that, but not nursing home care. A friend of mine eventually was able to get financial power-of-attorney (long story) as her mother developed dementia. She was able, eventually, to activate the policy. Her mother was a homeowner, so she did effectively have some savings. She had gotten scammed out of a lot, unfortunately, because she has fronto-temporal dementia. Evidently, with that form of dementia you can often present very well, but be vulnerable to financial scams.

Anyway, my friend's mother is now in Assisted Living, and is happy there (she's in her 80's). The difference between the quality of life there vs. a nursing home can be significant. I helped out a bachelor uncle who qualified for Assisted Living, and naturally had a strong preference for that over the nursing home. He lived almost another 5 years after moving up here from Florida (in Assisted Living). The latter is expensive, though, so having that long-term care insurance could be very critical.

Good suggestion but LTC is very expensive and if it does not cover the entire cost of care, its going to be hard as then one does not qualify for Long Term Medicaid. There are lots of problems with POA and not everyone, like the nursing home we are dealing with accepts the POA. It helps in some situations but not all. Far better to get legal guardianship via the court. You can file yourself - easy and its a 5 minute court hearing. We didn't know my MIL had dementia given her age and thought it was depression. Its important to get involved early in the finances and other stuff. I wish we did it sooner.

Have you considered whether you could afford getting her a long-term care insurance policy and taking charge of paying for it yourself? It might be worth it if you can afford it, to have the peace of mind to know that if she needs help with the activities of daily living down the road, that she can get some or most of that covered. She may end up needing that, but not nursing home care. A friend of mine eventually was able to get financial power-of-attorney (long story) as her mother developed dementia. She was able, eventually, to activate the policy. Her mother was a homeowner, so she did effectively have some savings. She had gotten scammed out of a lot, unfortunately, because she has fronto-temporal dementia. Evidently, with that form of dementia you can often present very well, but be vulnerable to financial scams.

Anyway, my friend's mother is now in Assisted Living, and is happy there (she's in her 80's). The difference between the quality of life there vs. a nursing home can be significant. I helped out a bachelor uncle who qualified for Assisted Living, and naturally had a strong preference for that over the nursing home. He lived almost another 5 years after moving up here from Florida (in Assisted Living). The latter is expensive, though, so having that long-term care insurance could be very critical.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think a parent is owed anything. I do not understand this mindset. If my parent was an asshole I would not help even a little.

Many states legally disagree with you and will hold you responsible, allowing health care providers, hospitals and nursing homes to sue you directly to pay your parents' bills.

Not true. When you enroll your parent in a nursing home, you sign a form stating you will be financially responsible or not. We had this happen where the nursing home did some really shady financial stuff and tried to go after us. We went for legal guardianship (you do do this when your parent is not of sound mind -very easy to do) and became social security rep. payee and now they have to allow us to make all decision but we are not financially responsible. Usually you have to agree for them to hold you accountable. If your parent is on medicaid, they cannot ask for more than the parent's social security check. Its more of an issue private pay and OP mom cannot private pay.

It really depends on which state you are in. If OP is in PA, watch out!

what if op's mother is in PA but she is several states away? any insight there?

My MIL was cross-country. We flew out a few times to determine it was time to move her. You either have to go in person as a lot of benefits have to be face-to-face or hire someone to manage some things. You can easily do bill pay and other stuff online. Its very hard to do it long distance so we moved my MIL as she was declining but while it was still possible to move her. We could not manage it long distance and she got taken advantage of.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do think you owe her the assistance of navigating bureaucracy. I would start now.

+1

What if you know nothing about navigating bureaucracy?

It's not that hard. Honestly.
I posted before about working in this area. Medicaid SSI are made to be user friendly due to the population they overwhelmingly serve. Think about the millions of people who have little to no education who benefit from these services.
OP can definitely do it.

I'm sure that it's "not that hard". But if you don't work in that industry or have never used services like that before yourself it is foreign territory.

How do you think millions of high school drop outs who are illiterate manage to get food stamps and free housing? I'm not trying to be derogatory, but the system is set up to serve people that actually cannot take care of themselves in the most basic of ways: food, clothing and shelter. It is NOT like trying to figure out a mortgage. It is literally (and I hate to use that word) made for people with less than a 3rd grade reading level.

Have you ever applied for services? It is not easy. Its actually worse than applying for a mortgage as the workers often sit on things and it takes forever to get approved. I handed my husband the long term medicaid paperwork after I had it....he gave it back after an hour and could not figure out many things. I did it in about 20-30 minutes but that's because I understand the system. It took me months of back and forth to get the long term medicaid. I go back and forth monthly with the workers on what is covered, finances with the nursing home and it takes lots of follow up calls to the worker and supervisor to get anything done (there is one good worker out of three we've had). You have to submit paperwork and then they claim they did not get it or it is the wrong stuff. I usually sent it fax, regular and certified mail and sometimes dropped it off too... It was a full time job trying to get an id, social security and medicare transferred, finding new doctors and appointments, food stamps, medicaid, long term medicaid, finding a nursing home, buying her everything she needed that was stolen from her... not to mention 24/7 care. I had to bring in another relative to care for my kids for a month to just get things settled. Now I spend a lot of time managing the nursing home, doctors, finances and benefits.