Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 16:04     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.


Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.


Who has a better idea of what I am celebrating, me or you? I am celebrating the holiday called Christmas. It's an opportunity to spend time with the family, with activities, trips, gifts, etc. That's what I am celebrating. You may think I am missing the point by celebrating Christmas without any belief that Jesus was real, but I don't need Jesus to be real to enjoy Christmas. Just watch me.


I think Jesus would be totally okay with a nonbeliever enjoying his birthday celebration if it promoted family togetherness and goodwill to others. He was the Prince of Peace, after all!


I am an atheist who celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ, too. What an amazing person. I also don't think Jesus would cast a stone at me, my family, or my tree. I am happy my children learn about this incredible person who put his life on the line for the poor, downtrodden, underclass, outcasts, needy, sick, young, and disenfranchised.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 15:59     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
As an elementary student (Montessori, so not ruled by same restrictions wrt sharing cultural traditions), there were a lot of Siekh (sp?) students, a few Jewish students, and a couple of standard-issue suburban and urban quasi-Christian (ie, Santa, reindeer) students.

Anyway, in our school we learned about and participated in sort of secular versions of major holidays, including Diwali and Passover and Christmas. The kids who presented on their family traditions were so proud, and those of us who were new to whatever were excited, too. I remember asking my mom for a Menorah. She got me one, without question. Was I inappropriately borrowing from a culture that wasn't "mine"? I don't know. I didn't care. I was eight.

Personally, I think you can do with these things what you like. I don't think of anything as being sacred and inaccessible to people who aren't part of the "in-group."

But, you know, I'm all irreverent like that. On the other hand, I respect your humanity don't think you're going to hell, be reincarnated as a snake, or otherwise be smited.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:52     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.


Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.


Who has a better idea of what I am celebrating, me or you? I am celebrating the holiday called Christmas. It's an opportunity to spend time with the family, with activities, trips, gifts, etc. That's what I am celebrating. You may think I am missing the point by celebrating Christmas without any belief that Jesus was real, but I don't need Jesus to be real to enjoy Christmas. Just watch me.


i think Jesus would be totally okay with a nonbeliever enjoying his birthday celebration if it promoted family togetherness and goodwill to others. He was the Prince of Peace, after all!
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:51     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We are not Christian and have always had a tree.


I grew up in communist Russia, and we always had a tree for the New Year's Eve. (My family did not celebrate Christmas. My parents came from the Christian tradition, but they were atheists at the time. I guess.)

So... tree away!


+1. We put up a tree later than the rest of the neighbors, so it lasts us till "Old Russian New Year" (1/13). My GM is muslim (even in USSR) and it never occured to her not to have a tree because it is "Christian only".
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:44     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:Op here, again. I just realized there is a similar thread about Hanukkah, sorry if a lot of the same thoughts are being covered on this thread. But here is what makes it different - many of the Hindu festivals we celebrate (Ganesh Chathurthi, Krishna Jayanthi, Navrathri, Dusshera, Diwali) are not this time of year (they are late July to early Nov), unlike Xmas/Hanukkah/Kwanza, etc. And basically NONE of these holidays are about gifts, whatsoever. we get new clothes for Diwali, but otherwise the holidays are a time of faith, family, food...lots of food. and fireworks during Diwali. its fun. we're happy to celebrate them all.

Back to the Christmas tree. Whether or not it was coopted by the Christian faith some years ago is not relevant to me - now I view it as a symbol of Christianity. We have plenty of Christian friends, we go to their houses for Christmas parties, we make xmas parties with neighbors, we exchange gifts with friends, we usually find carolers to listen to, and sometimes we go to midnight mass even because we think its beautiful. I can appreciate the beauty of this faith without having a tree, wreath, or cross in my house. Same with Judaism; every year we are invited to our good friends' large gatherings for Passover, High holidays etc. we even know some of the songs now, and my older daughter knows how to make a latke. We think its beautiful but we're not going to have a Menorah in our house.

I hope this makes sense. We are not a very organized religion, and we tend to get overlooked by other 'stronger' faiths (i.e. monotheistic) which is why I DON'T want to do a xmas tree. I know my daughter will understand years from now, but right now its difficult.


Yes, this makes sense. You want your daughter to enjoy the variety of American life and traditions but you want to make it clear to her that you have a separate and coherent tradition that doesn't need a fancy new addition. That's completely reasonable.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:40     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
PP 14:24 and I'll add that I grew up as one of only a few Jews in my community and wanted a tree and santa and presents on Christmas all that because I really wanted to be "normal." I was so desperate to be normal that I would keep some Chanukkah presents secret to bring to school after Christmas and pretend I had just gotten them. I'm so glad my parents didn't capitulate. Looking back, it really built my own identity and was important to how I see myself. I think it's fine if you choose to have a tree because it makes sense to you, but don't do it just because your kids ask.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:35     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
My parents grew up as Buddhists (not practicing), but when we moved to the US, we got xmas trees. They're nice to look at. Do your kids know the religious connotations of Christmas? No need to tell them.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:31     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:Suggestions? We are Hindus. We've decided to play up the Hindu holidays a lot, decorated the house for Diwali, had a big party, etc. Do the same for a lot of the other holidays.
Kids have never even noticed Christmas till now. The older one is 6.


Are you kidding? All Hindus in this country that I know, have a Christmas tree, buy gifts for their family, friends, teachers etc., and either throw a party or go to one on 25th. Most of them also put up Christmas lights. The Hindu festivals you celebrate has a religious and spiritual meaning to it, and there is a component of prayers or some religious ceremony to it.

Celebrating Christmas for non-Christians is like having a big ol' party. It is a celebration and also a great time to get special deals in consumer goods.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:28     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:We are atheists and have a Christmas tree. Christmas is mostly a cultural holiday. I know the religious people have some special attachment to it, but it's okay to not have any attachment but still engage in the merry making that goes along with it.

So we have a 9-ft tall tree, an ungodly amount of lights, ribbons, ornaments, and etc.

I take pride on having the best tree in the entire street.


Actually, it is not. You're an atheist celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ.


Was He born in a tree?

Hadn't heard!
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:24     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:"A Christmas tree is something people who celebrate Christmas sometimes have, and our family doesn't so we don't have a tree." Then acknowledge Christmas trees are pretty and looking at ornaments can be fun. Enjoy seeing your friends' and neighbors' trees.

I'm Jewish and don;t like the approach of making Hanukkah a substitute for Christmas or equating them. I wouldn't suggest playing up a Hindu holiday to "make up for" not celebrating another religion's holiday, but pointing out there are some things your family does that others don't is just fine.


Agreed. I usually tell my kids that as Jews, we have more than enough holidays already! I don't think you need to find another winter one that equates to Christmas, but I think it's helpful to remind them of a few of their faves. I think a Diwali party is great. We do put out lights, but we do it in October to decorate our Sukkah, and the kids love it but they've been back in the basement for quite a while by the time December comes around. I think it's all part of maintaining your identity as a minority, you do need there to be things you do and things you don't do, rather than blurring the distinctions.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:15     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
An associate professor of theology at Catholic University weighs in on Christmas symbols. An interesting read--


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/is-this-starbucks-cup-christmasy-enough-a-guide-to-the-secret-meaning-of-holiday-symbols/2015/11/11/a37e41e4-8884-11e5-be8b-1ae2e4f50f76_story.html
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 14:02     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
I'm not going to read all the pages. We are Jewish and we have a Christmas tree and presents. I love Christmas. And other than the word "christ" there is not one christian element in our Christmas. Christmas trees, lights, decoration and gifts are all pre-Christian traditions that have zero relationship to Jesus Christ, whose birthday was declared to be on Dec 25 by a group of early church leaders who simply wanted to appropriate another religion's holiday (and another god's birthday) in order to ease their conversion efforts.

I say, go out and do Christmas - and go ahead and style if Hindu-style, with your own cultural decorations or whatever you want to put on your tree. Ours has some dreidels Jewish stars. We just make it our own and do it however we want.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 13:19     Subject: Re:Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:Op here. Thanks for the suggestions. I also had a Xmas tree growing up (as did my spouse), because our parents did the Xmas tree as part of adopting some aspects of American culture. I remember liking it, but it always felt in some way not enough....like we were faking it. Even as a child I realized I was doing a small part of the Christmas experience, and it made me feel....left out.

Things are different now than when I grew up - there's no need to adopt others' traditions where we live - there are a lot of Indians in my town. My kids are WAAAY more in touch with their Indian heritage than I was growing up, and that is in large part due the changes in demographics, but also what the population has chose to emphasize - religion, language, arts, etc. At any rate, my husband and I really want our kids to be able to turn to the tenets of our faith for guidance through their lives. And we think a big part of that is knowing who we aren't, and who we aren't. And we aren't Christian.

We put lights up outside our house for Diwali and leave them on until Jan 2, so we do have lights during Xmas too. I just think its going to be a slippery slope if I get them a tree. Then it will be presents next (when most Hindu holidays are NOT about gift-giving) and Santa, etc. etc. Where does it end? But I also don't want them to feel sad or left out.



Since you grew up with a Christmas tree in your house, do you think that hurt your ability to "know who you are" and practice/turn to your faith for guidance through your life?
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2015 10:42     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:Suggestions? We are Hindus. We've decided to play up the Hindu holidays a lot, decorated the house for Diwali, had a big party, etc. Do the same for a lot of the other holidays.
Kids have never even noticed Christmas till now. The older one is 6.


We are not Christian, we are UU and our tradition is to have a tree. Our family calls it a Yule tree. One of the first people to bring trees inside for Christmas was a Unitarian minister named Follen. The church he founded in Lexington still sells then every year. http://www.uuworld.org/articles/follen-christmas-tree

Bringing greens into the house in mid-winter predates Christinaity in northenr Europe. It is an old tradition.


Anonymous
Post 12/16/2015 23:24     Subject: Kids want a Christmas tree; we are not Christian
Anonymous wrote:I don't think monotheistic faiths are "stronger." Hinduism is an extremely strong religion, which is one of the reasons why it has existed for such a long time. Honestly, OP, it sounds like you might be a bit insecure regarding your own understanding of it.


Wrong use of the word stronger. What I meant is that other religious traditions dominate the culture here, and our beliefs are not well known. We are not a large enough group still to have huge cultural impact. And Hindus have, by and large, chosen to take Christmas as a secular holiday in this country. I know plenty of Hindu children for whom Christmas is bigger and more exciting than Diwali. I personally do not agree with this. Beyond the fact that India has a sordid history of being colonized by British christians for centuries (some of whom saw our traditions as 'uncivilized', pls read some Rudyard Kipling if you want a taste) and even now there are many forced conversions happening in some parts of the country, we just have too much to lose by not holding on to our traditions. We haven't been in this country long enough to already lose everything - our language, our traditions, our beliefs. Really, I appreciate how many Jewish families consciously make their cultural traditions central to the way they live.

'Hinduism' hasn't existed for a long time, though Vedanta has. It's the British that called us Hindus, and our beliefs are extremely heterogenous without a singular central text. Yes, some of these texts are older than the Torah. I have a fairly confident understanding of Hinduism, thank you; that's actually why I will tell my child about Jesus who sounded like a great person/saint, but I still will not have a tree or a pile of presents or Santa.

At any rate, i was more just looking for advice who have gone down this path, and to those who gave me suggestions, i thank you, esp 22:28.