Anonymous
11/09/2015 12:57
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
And every, single one including the coach stood fast. It really was impressive to see a photo of the entire team, black and white, locked arm in arm. That's how you get the job done (though the school would've lost $1 million if they hadn't played this coming weekend).Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:U of Missouri's president just resigned in what appears an awful atmosphere that was ignored by the university president. Some of the things the Greeks (frats) were doing were deplorable.Anonymous wrote:I'm glad my kid's not applying, but for different reasons. This seems like a campus where lots of non-white students feel marginalized and where their concerns aren't treated with respect until the situation gets out of control. Not an appealing environment.
In fairness to Yale's administration, the President now does seem to be listening. We'll see what happens next.
Yes, it's an amazing story. I have a lot of respect for the football players in that scenario.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 12:53
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
Anonymous wrote:U of Missouri's president just resigned in what appears an awful atmosphere that was ignored by the university president. Some of the things the Greeks (frats) were doing were deplorable.Anonymous wrote:I'm glad my kid's not applying, but for different reasons. This seems like a campus where lots of non-white students feel marginalized and where their concerns aren't treated with respect until the situation gets out of control. Not an appealing environment.
In fairness to Yale's administration, the President now does seem to be listening. We'll see what happens next.
Yes, it's an amazing story. I have a lot of respect for the football players in that scenario.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 12:48
Subject: Re:Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
Anonymous wrote:Most of the ivies are over-priced cesspools of leftist groupthink. Academic freedom doesn't exist there.
Grow up, FFS.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 12:12
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
U of Missouri's president just resigned in what appears an awful atmosphere that was ignored by the university president. Some of the things the Greeks (frats) were doing were deplorable.Anonymous wrote:I'm glad my kid's not applying, but for different reasons. This seems like a campus where lots of non-white students feel marginalized and where their concerns aren't treated with respect until the situation gets out of control. Not an appealing environment.
In fairness to Yale's administration, the President now does seem to be listening. We'll see what happens next.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 12:00
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
I'm glad my kid's not applying, but for different reasons. This seems like a campus where lots of non-white students feel marginalized and where their concerns aren't treated with respect until the situation gets out of control. Not an appealing environment.
In fairness to Yale's administration, the President now does seem to be listening. We'll see what happens next.
In fairness to Yale's administration, the President now does seem to be listening. We'll see what happens next.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 10:43
Subject: Re:Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
Sorry, does anyone else remember receiving directives WHILE IN UNIVERSITY about what your Halloween costume could/could not be? Are adult students in university (Yale University for crissakes) not capable of making adult decisions?
Yale has been PC central for a long time. I remember visiting in the mid-80s when college-shopping, and being completely turned off by how PC it was. Separate floors/housing for each conceivable ethnic/racial/sexual identity group. I wanted to go to college to be with a mix of people - the main purpose that colleges are residential in my opinion! To expose yourself to other points of view and experiences, not hunker down in groups of people who are the same as you are. 30 years later and Yale's PC policies seem to have achieved nothing - still segregated, still resorting to uncivil discourse.
Yale has been PC central for a long time. I remember visiting in the mid-80s when college-shopping, and being completely turned off by how PC it was. Separate floors/housing for each conceivable ethnic/racial/sexual identity group. I wanted to go to college to be with a mix of people - the main purpose that colleges are residential in my opinion! To expose yourself to other points of view and experiences, not hunker down in groups of people who are the same as you are. 30 years later and Yale's PC policies seem to have achieved nothing - still segregated, still resorting to uncivil discourse.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 10:15
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
1. Why not tell students to choose their costumes carefully? Blackface is offensive.
2. Email form Professor saying "be careful who you give your power to" was a good letter, I thought. Thought provoking. Obviously, some were provoked.
3. Young woman screaming in Master's face. Little tough to watch. If she had just yelled and used bad language I would not give one shit. But she took off her backpack and got right in his face. If a male had acted that way to a female, there would be quite the backlash. In fact something like this happened at another college last year.
So not cool.
4. Nobody should be punished. Nobody should be let go. This is where free speech gets messy.
2. Email form Professor saying "be careful who you give your power to" was a good letter, I thought. Thought provoking. Obviously, some were provoked.
3. Young woman screaming in Master's face. Little tough to watch. If she had just yelled and used bad language I would not give one shit. But she took off her backpack and got right in his face. If a male had acted that way to a female, there would be quite the backlash. In fact something like this happened at another college last year.
So not cool.
4. Nobody should be punished. Nobody should be let go. This is where free speech gets messy.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 09:27
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
That's only a snap shot above.
Last week a free speech conference was disrupted by a protester who did not like a hyperbolic joke that the email response was an overreaction (he said something like by the email response "you would have thought someone had burned down an Indian village"). This prompted immediate social network organizing and a hundred students mobbed outside of the conference -- reportedly led by a native American student group. One white student entered and disrupted the conference -- he was eventually arrested. He is quoted as saying the police used appropriate force, but commented he thought that was only because he was a white student. Others outside yelled at attendees when they exited that they were racists and that they were making a joke out of genocide. Some students were spat upon by protesters. They demanded their speakers be included in the conference -- which was planned 6 months in advance and required preregistration (but had been open to anyone who registered) and was full to capacity.
This is intimidation aimed at not only squelching any speech that could be construed as offensive to anyone, but in weaving a consistent narrative of untold oppression and victimhood. While there is room for these perspectives on campus, our future is in a sorry state when it is the dominant theme on our campuses. Children are being killed in stray cross fires by gangs in our cities, ISIS may be blowing planes out of the sky, transgender people face assault and murder at alarming rates, homelessness abounds, etc. But the best and brightest minds of the ivy league clearly have more important things to worry about. If I was their parents paying tuition, I would think twice about sending them back.
Last week a free speech conference was disrupted by a protester who did not like a hyperbolic joke that the email response was an overreaction (he said something like by the email response "you would have thought someone had burned down an Indian village"). This prompted immediate social network organizing and a hundred students mobbed outside of the conference -- reportedly led by a native American student group. One white student entered and disrupted the conference -- he was eventually arrested. He is quoted as saying the police used appropriate force, but commented he thought that was only because he was a white student. Others outside yelled at attendees when they exited that they were racists and that they were making a joke out of genocide. Some students were spat upon by protesters. They demanded their speakers be included in the conference -- which was planned 6 months in advance and required preregistration (but had been open to anyone who registered) and was full to capacity.
This is intimidation aimed at not only squelching any speech that could be construed as offensive to anyone, but in weaving a consistent narrative of untold oppression and victimhood. While there is room for these perspectives on campus, our future is in a sorry state when it is the dominant theme on our campuses. Children are being killed in stray cross fires by gangs in our cities, ISIS may be blowing planes out of the sky, transgender people face assault and murder at alarming rates, homelessness abounds, etc. But the best and brightest minds of the ivy league clearly have more important things to worry about. If I was their parents paying tuition, I would think twice about sending them back.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 08:06
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
The message has been lost (outside of Yale, at least) because people don't want to talk about race.
There's no free speech issue here - everybody got to say what s/he wanted to say. The Dean, Chaplain et al. said think about the effect on others before you decide how you want to exercise your right to free expression on Halloween. The Co-Master said The Dean et al are overreaching, Halloween is for subversion and college is a place where kids should have a safe space to be obnoxious and offensive. The House Master/Yale faculty member said I agree with my wife's statement (which paraphrased him as saying people who are offended by a spectacle should either just "look away" or confront the offender and tell him/her what they think. The aggrieved students -- through various means (open letter, chalking on the quads, blog posts, formal and informal statements in public) -- told Yale what they thought -- the Masters of Silliman don't understand their role in the campus community, Yale's everyday racism (in various forms) makes this a hard and alienating place to be a person (and especially a woman) of color, and the Administration's response to this issue has been slow and inadequate.
No one has been punished for any of these expressions. Free speech is alive and well at Yale. And, frankly, if you want to talk about respect for authority and how this might play out in a corporate setting, then the Co-Master might well and deservedly have been fired or demoted. She exercised poor judgment and undermined an institutional effort to ease racial tensions on campus that was initiated by university officials with higher status and more responsibility for the project than she had. Imagine a department head who, in response to a corporate-wide missive from HR about how office decor should avoid creating a hostile work environment for women, sent a memo to all her subordinates saying as far as she's concerned your cube is your own space and you should be able to decorate it anyway you want to and anyone who tells you differently is overstepping his or her authority.
Personally, I think universities should have higher/different standards than corporations and that, in reality, there's generally less accountability for the real decision-makers in corporate settings than other domains, but, hey, if that's your standard, the Co-Master would probably have been censured before it came to a point where you had subordinates so angry they were screaming obscenities. That's a damage control model.
By contrast, Yale's showing what free speech actually looks like when people talk about controversial issues in a context where there are real disparities of power and where those who lack power feel they aren't being heard or taken seriously.
There's no free speech issue here - everybody got to say what s/he wanted to say. The Dean, Chaplain et al. said think about the effect on others before you decide how you want to exercise your right to free expression on Halloween. The Co-Master said The Dean et al are overreaching, Halloween is for subversion and college is a place where kids should have a safe space to be obnoxious and offensive. The House Master/Yale faculty member said I agree with my wife's statement (which paraphrased him as saying people who are offended by a spectacle should either just "look away" or confront the offender and tell him/her what they think. The aggrieved students -- through various means (open letter, chalking on the quads, blog posts, formal and informal statements in public) -- told Yale what they thought -- the Masters of Silliman don't understand their role in the campus community, Yale's everyday racism (in various forms) makes this a hard and alienating place to be a person (and especially a woman) of color, and the Administration's response to this issue has been slow and inadequate.
No one has been punished for any of these expressions. Free speech is alive and well at Yale. And, frankly, if you want to talk about respect for authority and how this might play out in a corporate setting, then the Co-Master might well and deservedly have been fired or demoted. She exercised poor judgment and undermined an institutional effort to ease racial tensions on campus that was initiated by university officials with higher status and more responsibility for the project than she had. Imagine a department head who, in response to a corporate-wide missive from HR about how office decor should avoid creating a hostile work environment for women, sent a memo to all her subordinates saying as far as she's concerned your cube is your own space and you should be able to decorate it anyway you want to and anyone who tells you differently is overstepping his or her authority.
Personally, I think universities should have higher/different standards than corporations and that, in reality, there's generally less accountability for the real decision-makers in corporate settings than other domains, but, hey, if that's your standard, the Co-Master would probably have been censured before it came to a point where you had subordinates so angry they were screaming obscenities. That's a damage control model.
By contrast, Yale's showing what free speech actually looks like when people talk about controversial issues in a context where there are real disparities of power and where those who lack power feel they aren't being heard or taken seriously.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 05:19
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
PP here. The student explains why he went off. I still maintain even in his 'unrest', most colleges would take him. Right or wrong, it's about the message which, sadly, has been lost because of Yale student's outburst. On the other hand, the white kid is being hailed a 'hero.'Anonymous wrote:Do you consider this kid stupid and a punk?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So you think college students should show moral outrage whenever another college student tells someone s/he disagrees with to shut the fuck up? Or is it just when they tell authority figures to STFU?
If I'm going to Yale for an education, I want to learn from professors who are free to speak their mind without having to toe some ideological line or risking verbal and/or physical assault from some punk student. Make no mistake about it, this silly, stupid black girl needs to be given a time-out before she is allowed to return to classes. Her conduct crossed the bounds of civility at a college campus and she should be suspended.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=12ZRuM8UtDA
The difference?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LG_0P7YN1vg
Anonymous
11/09/2015 05:13
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
I like this kid. Sometimes it just has to be said. The Yale student said what was in her heart also. She said 'fuck.'. The student in the video said 'bitchin.'. Do you think Yale would welcome him? I think so.Anonymous wrote:Do you consider this kid stupid and a punk?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So you think college students should show moral outrage whenever another college student tells someone s/he disagrees with to shut the fuck up? Or is it just when they tell authority figures to STFU?
If I'm going to Yale for an education, I want to learn from professors who are free to speak their mind without having to toe some ideological line or risking verbal and/or physical assault from some punk student. Make no mistake about it, this silly, stupid black girl needs to be given a time-out before she is allowed to return to classes. Her conduct crossed the bounds of civility at a college campus and she should be suspended.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=12ZRuM8UtDA
Anonymous
11/09/2015 05:02
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
Do you consider this kid stupid and a punk?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So you think college students should show moral outrage whenever another college student tells someone s/he disagrees with to shut the fuck up? Or is it just when they tell authority figures to STFU?
If I'm going to Yale for an education, I want to learn from professors who are free to speak their mind without having to toe some ideological line or risking verbal and/or physical assault from some punk student. Make no mistake about it, this silly, stupid black girl needs to be given a time-out before she is allowed to return to classes. Her conduct crossed the bounds of civility at a college campus and she should be suspended.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=12ZRuM8UtDA
Anonymous
11/09/2015 04:23
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
And some silly, stupid punk white girl who crosses the boundaries of civility should suffer the same fate.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So you think college students should show moral outrage whenever another college student tells someone s/he disagrees with to shut the fuck up? Or is it just when they tell authority figures to STFU?
If I'm going to Yale for an education, I want to learn from professors who are free to speak their mind without having to toe some ideological line or risking verbal and/or physical assault from some punk student. Make no mistake about it, this silly, stupid black girl needs to be given a time-out before she is allowed to return to classes. Her conduct crossed the bounds of civility at a college campus and she should be suspended.
Anonymous
11/09/2015 04:19
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
You better believe it.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The fact that you even have to tell someone to exercise respect when choosing a costume says volumes about a broken moral compass.Anonymous wrote:So you think college students should show moral outrage whenever another college student tells someone s/he disagrees with to shut the fuck up? Or is it just when they tell authority figures to STFU?
Why anyone would purposely wear something fully knowing that it's offensive and hurtful has deeper issues regardless of your right for free expression.
Like a Redskins jersey?
Anonymous
11/09/2015 00:20
Subject: Has Yale Become a PC Joke?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Another POV: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2015/11/01/van-alst-coddling-white-privilege-silencing-people-color-162287
additionally: https://medium.com/@aaronzlewis/what-s-really-going-on-at-yale-6bdbbeeb57a6
Sorry. The above article still does not justify the overbearing reaction to a school advisor that just wrote suggesting that people can police their own costumes. I read that e-mail and still do not find anything offensive about it. It does not justify yelling or getting aggressive or getting all up in an administrator's space. It does not justify saying that college is not an intellectual space but a safe space.
there are ways of showing resistance that does not show the facist tendencies, intolerance and bullying these college students have demonstrated. I for one would not be hiring any of the students that signed their names in the petition if their resumes ever came by my desk.
You don't think your own statement shows fascist tendencies, intolerance and bullying? One woman screams an obscenity at a faculty member in the course of a heated discussion about the role of house masters and therefore anyone who signed an open letter to his wife/co-master explaining why her email re Halloween costumes was so problematic should be blackballed from future employment?
Apples to oranges.
The professor's wife wrote an e-mail asking for students to self police themselves during Halloween. Anyhow I read it the e-mail was reasonable and not disrespectful. The reaction has been screaming, bullying, aggressive behavior, whining, spitting, calling for the professor to resign.
I see this behavior and I think twice about employing such a person that could display this kind of disrespectful behavior. There are consequences to actions and it works both ways.
Yet the people who signed the petition didn't scream at the professor, but those are the names PP claims to be looking for on resumes.
If these people support disrespectful behavior and the shutting down of discussion in the name of victim hood and safe spaces then yes, I don't want them working for me.