Anonymous wrote:

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

WOLVERINES!!!!

Sorry, carry on with this discussion.

You are awesome!

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

WOLVERINES!!!!

Sorry, carry on with this discussion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

+1,000,000

Nowhere in history did a couple dozen untrained, obese, right wing ridgerunners with guns ever prevent an invasion or prevent governmental tyranny or oppression.

If anything, libertarianism and your desire to be independent, armed loners is far more likely to be your undoing if anything bad were ever to come to be.

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Armed resistance is useless without social organization, networking, and control of institutions. In fact, they matter far more than weapons. Helen Fein in Accounting for Genocide argued that it was the nations with independent institutions that did not support the Holocaust that were less likely to cooperate with the Nazi efforts to send Jews to the camp.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would we arm people who scream death to America and who attacked us multiple times on our own land?

If you are referring to Muslims, why do you believe that all Muslims scream "death to America" and have attacked us multiple times? Isn't that the sort of stereotyping that contributed to the Holocaust? Do you support a "Muslim exception" to the 2nd Amendment?

If they are American citizens, nope. If they are not, yep.

Oh so the Bill of Rights is only for citizens? Non-citizens don't get freedom of speech or due process? Sorry, that's un-American. We don't pick and choose who gets protection based on citizenship. I'm sure there's a nice Gulf oil monarchy where you can find a government that supports your point of view. Oh wait, you won't be a citizen there so you won't get full protection under the law. Sucks to be you I guess.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Ask Operation Move or the Branch Davidians how much of a pause they gave the "tyrants".

Small potatoes. How many people can democrats burn alive without the people striking back?

Anonymous wrote:So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

Ask Operation Move or the Branch Davidians how much of a pause they gave the "tyrants".

So it's everyone's position that our government could get away with an internal holocaust and not meet with an armed resistance?

My position is knowing the amount of weaponry in the hands of the American people, it definitely would give a tyrant pause.

That's as it should be.

First of all, there were not many guns in the hands of civilians in Germany in the first place, since they had to surrender them under terms of WWI in the Treaty of Versailles; the 1938 law promoted by Hitler was in fact not to ban guns (as they were already banned) but to put guns in the hands of the select few, it is a very very different situation as compared to anything relevant to current US politics, or any proposal anyone has made in US politics.

Likewise, in Poland, it wasn't merely a simple matter of Jews simply picking up some guns and defending themselves - Polish civilians typically had very few guns available, as a result of multiple occupations by Prussia, Russia and Austria.

And either way, there's not much that some civilian with a pistol or rifle ever would have been able to do against the Luftwaffe and Panzer divisions that came into Poland. Likewise, any civilian who thinks their AR-15 would in any way be effective against a government that has mechanized infantry, artillery and aerial weaponry at their easy disposal is absolutely delusional. If they want you dead, you're going to end up dead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at all the 'heavily legislate or take all the guns before we all die' messages on this forum, and you can see plainly why it was critical for the Nazis to make sure Jews weren't armed in quantity.

It took the Nazis 6 weeks to finally kill the last Jew in Warsaw - resisting with the few weapons they did have, Imagine if they had not convinced Jews to disarm?

The entire country of Poland was blitzed and conquered in only 36 days. If you think that somehow the timeline of the warsaw uprising indicated that the concentrated effort of the German Army was being repelled, you are a fool. The actual fighting was seven days, April 22-29. Not six weeks.

Lesson to you: don't try to use history to make a point unless you understand your history.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10005188

"Between July 22 and September 12, 1942, the German authorities deported or murdered around 300,000 Jews in the Warsaw ghetto.

How long? Hmmm, July 22 to Aug 22 is about a month. Two more weeks from the 22nd to the 12th. I do believe that's about 6 weeks....

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would we arm people who scream death to America and who attacked us multiple times on our own land?

If you are referring to Muslims, why do you believe that all Muslims scream "death to America" and have attacked us multiple times? Isn't that the sort of stereotyping that contributed to the Holocaust? Do you support a "Muslim exception" to the 2nd Amendment?

If they are American citizens, nope. If they are not, yep.

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at all the 'heavily legislate or take all the guns before we all die' messages on this forum, and you can see plainly why it was critical for the Nazis to make sure Jews weren't armed in quantity.

It took the Nazis 6 weeks to finally kill the last Jew in Warsaw - resisting with the few weapons they did have, Imagine if they had not convinced Jews to disarm?

The entire country of Poland was blitzed and conquered in only 36 days. If you think that somehow the timeline of the warsaw uprising indicated that the concentrated effort of the German Army was being repelled, you are a fool. The actual fighting was seven days, April 22-29. Not six weeks.

Lesson to you: don't try to use history to make a point unless you understand your history.

Anonymous wrote:Why would we arm people who scream death to America and who attacked us multiple times on our own land?

If you are referring to Muslims, why do you believe that all Muslims scream "death to America" and have attacked us multiple times? Isn't that the sort of stereotyping that contributed to the Holocaust? Do you support a "Muslim exception" to the 2nd Amendment?

Anonymous wrote:
Take a look at all the 'heavily legislate or take all the guns before we all die' messages on this forum, and you can see plainly why it was critical for the Nazis to make sure Jews weren't armed in quantity.

It took the Nazis 6 weeks to finally kill the last Jew in Warsaw - resisting with the few weapons they did

Please learn history. You are regurgitating NRA talking points that are not based in fact.


How so? Jews were able to keep their arms?

Explain to me how it would work. So you give the Jews all the weapon they want. How does that change anything. Also are we talking just German Jews not French, Polish, Russian Jews etc right? What happens next? So all Germans Jews are armed and it 19??(what date would this happen, it's important)....where do they form up, where is their base of operations, what cities do they occupy, do they attack the German armed forced, do they attack the police, do they kill nazi who have just been elected to power, what is the role of the Jews who are unable to fight- under 12 years, some women and the old, how do they supply themselves, what is the reaction from the German general population, from the German police(remember the German police arrested Hilter when he tried to stage a coup), etc...give me your alternative history(remember Jews in pre-ww2 were less then 1% of the population, Hilter purged all political opposition including many armed member of the Sturmabteilung(being armed did them no good) in 1934 and it was the height of the Great Depression).

Anonymous wrote:Take a look at all the 'heavily legislate or take all the guns before we all die' messages on this forum, and you can see plainly why it was critical for the Nazis to make sure Jews weren't armed in quantity.

It took the Nazis 6 weeks to finally kill the last Jew in Warsaw - resisting with the few weapons they did have, Imagine if they had not convinced Jews to disarm?

You do realize that Warsaw is in Poland and, therefore, the Jews living in the Warsaw ghetto were Polish, not German citizens, right? You might find this helpful:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Ghetto

After the German Army overran Polish forces it was never a matter of "convinc[ing] Jews to disarm." There are also additional factors, not the least of which being the failure -- and quite likely the refusal -- of the Polish underground resistance to support the uprising. Of course, the Germans were able to mobilize the full range of their weaponry from tanks in down, and more than 2000 soldiers, to put down the uprising in about a month, with fewer than 20 KIAs. Ben Carson must be shocked that the Jews didn't fight deportation to the "labor camp" at Treblinka from the beginning, or point to the Gypsies or gays or disabled.