This is all so very odd. Why are we hiding history like this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would absolutely ask.

Was this terrible thing done TO your Mom? That might be the only reason to not ask her. If it had nothing to do with your Mom, I don't see why you wouldn't ask.

Because if she had wanted op to know she would have told sometime in the last 40 + years.

But it's a two way street. For example, I know that my mother had an affair with one of her best friend's husbands. I know because my older sister saw them together in bed. I was SHOCKED when I found out, because my mother is normally a very moral and honest person.

She has never mentioned this to me, probably because it is really none of my business, the couple eventually divorced and are now dead, and how does someone even bring that up after so many years? But I would feel 100 percent okay with asking her about it one day if I become insatiably curious, or if I find myself in a place where I might need her insight on infidelity. As adults who love and trust each other, I know that she and I could discuss this respectfully, even if she told me to MMOB.

I guess to me it's not really the be-all and end-all if somebody didn't mention it. They may also be not discussing painful topics because they don't want to burden YOU with unpleasant information about relatives.

+1
I think there are some things that just don't come up in normal conversation but that aren't so taboo that the person never wants to talk about it. My mother died many years ago and I had no idea that she had had an abortion after my sister was born. She told my sister about it when my sister had an abortion. My mom died at 56 of a very fast moving cancer, so I'm sure she thought she had plenty of time to tell me about things, including the abortion, as they would be relevant and helpful in my life.
OP, I would ask your mom, if I were you, in a gentle way and then let it go if it was obviously making her uncomfortable. How many of the older generation are still alive?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would absolutely ask.

Was this terrible thing done TO your Mom? That might be the only reason to not ask her. If it had nothing to do with your Mom, I don't see why you wouldn't ask.

Because if she had wanted op to know she would have told sometime in the last 40 + years.

But it's a two way street. For example, I know that my mother had an affair with one of her best friend's husbands. I know because my older sister saw them together in bed. I was SHOCKED when I found out, because my mother is normally a very moral and honest person.

She has never mentioned this to me, probably because it is really none of my business, the couple eventually divorced and are now dead, and how does someone even bring that up after so many years? But I would feel 100 percent okay with asking her about it one day if I become insatiably curious, or if I find myself in a place where I might need her insight on infidelity. As adults who love and trust each other, I know that she and I could discuss this respectfully, even if she told me to MMOB.

I guess to me it's not really the be-all and end-all if somebody didn't mention it. They may also be not discussing painful topics because they don't want to burden YOU with unpleasant information about relatives.

Oh come on.

Previous generations were the kind to always keep their secrets close and inside the family. The OP is inside the family. It's not ask if YOU are asking her Mother.

Unless you have a very distant relationship with her or the bad thing was done to her, I don't think it's a big deal to ask.

What's the worst thing that happens? Her Mom says, "I don't want to talk about it." Ok then.

My maternal grandmother was physically and sexually abused by her father for many years. He was a violent drunk who accidentally set their house on fire, but he was also well liked by their small community. My grandmother left home to go to university at 17, and aside from ensuring that her father had appropriate care in his old age (he lived to be 95), she was very distant - visited at best once a year, refused ever to stay at the house, etc.

Anonymous wrote:I would absolutely ask.

Was this terrible thing done TO your Mom? That might be the only reason to not ask her. If it had nothing to do with your Mom, I don't see why you wouldn't ask.

Because if she had wanted op to know she would have told sometime in the last 40 + years.

I would absolutely ask.

Was this terrible thing done TO your Mom? That might be the only reason to not ask her. If it had nothing to do with your Mom, I don't see why you wouldn't ask.

I feel like this thread is just a huge tease without the actual secret!

The nature of the secret also has an effect on the answers people are giving you- not every scenario is the same in the abstract!

There is a world of difference between say being a bootlegger (one of my great grandfather's actually went to jail for almost 2 years during prohibition) and someone who molested several family members, IMO, regarding how the secret might stir shit up.

OP, I think it's worth asking your mom some very open ended questions. Some older people really like to purge themselves of this stuff before they die, and she might be glad to talk of it. If it seems upsetting or if she's just in total denial about it, move on...

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the dark family history is the most interesting. My aunt always said that my great grandparents made their money by selling extra rations of gasoline during WW2 as they owned many gas stations. Grandma denies it fiercely. I think her generation never talked about the bad.

Actually, this was not at all a bad thing. I had family members on both sides of this black market. One side had a mother in another state dying of cancer. He regularly bought extra rations so that they could go visit her. Otherwise, they would not have been able to see her for many years. (She died right after the war.) Another side of the family ran a gas station. My dad pumped the gas, and said that the ration system was set up to account for the fact that there would be spillage and evaporation waste. If you were very careful (which my dad was), you did not have that waste, and would end up with extra gas that was not on the ration system. They then sold that extra gas for cash, not rations. (What were they supposed to do with it? Throw it in the river? Drive around town themselves?). They used to save it for people that they knew really needed the extra gas, either because of difficult family circumstances, or because they were trying to make a living that required a certain amount of gas usage.
I've always considered it heroic on both sides -- one side scrapping to get a little extra so they could help care for a very sick relative; and the other side being super careful so that they could have a little extra to help out a neighbor (and make a little cash, which, frankly they really needed, coming off the depression).
This kind of arbitrage was very common under the WWII rationing system, and in any system that has rationing. My great-uncle had a ton of kids, so used to get a ton of meat rations -- due to efficiencies of scale within his own family, he really didn't need that much meat, but really needed money for other stuff (like shoes for the kids). He would sell them to his brother, who had only 2 kids and got very few meat rations, but had a pretty decent job. Both were happy with the situation.
This is a good example where you need to understand history before judging someone.

I'm guessing OP's story is more clear-cut, though.

Ask!!!

There is something to be said for letting the past die, OP.

This question about your grandfather seems to haunt you a little. And, from what I gather, there aren't many family members left who know about it.

If you do ask your mother and she confirms the crime, you really just take her place -- becoming mother to children who may someday ask you about their great-grandfather, and feel their own shame and guilt (to whatever extent) for what he did.

Maybe it's best to let the memory fade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. Thank you for all of these interesting perspectives.

In thinking about why I want to know more -- I guess to fill in gaps in the family story line. If this is all true, it does explain a few gaps in the big picture. It would also, in some weird way, make my grandfather more real to me. All I've ever heard is how wonderful, smart, kind, generous etc he was. It does display the good side/ bad side of human nature. Also, my father died last year and I'm becoming increasingly aware of how these stories -- bad and good -- will not always be available to us.

However, I also think there is no reason to upset my mother by bringing this up again at this stage in her life. I don't know if she ever made peace with it, but my rehashing it now will not help that.

I think I can assume that it is true and as posters have suggested, I could always research more on my own if I ever really want to know. And there is nothing to prevent me from making my own form of restitution in a quiet way, perhaps by making a donation of money and/or volunteer time that would help the larger issue. No, it will not change what happened all those years ago but could close the circle among these generations of my family.

I think this is a wise move. There are some painful things from my own childhood involving long dead individuals which have no impact whatsoever on my children and which would be painful for me to relive. It is my story to share or not to share and I would resent like hell anyone believing that they had an absolute right to dig into the past for curiosity's sake. Op's mother and other relatives should have that same right to put the past behind them.

NP here- really interesting perspective from the other side. Thanks for sharing!

Anonymous wrote:This man died before you were born. Nothing he did or didn't do impacts your life, yet you are willing to potentially hurt your mother to satisfy your curiosity. How selfish and self-absorbed. Seriously, op, he died before you were born. Give it a rest.

Agreed. You need to come to terms with the fact that you don't always get your way and somethings are left open-ended...

Anonymous wrote:What an odd thread. I come from a family of storytellers, and there certainly hasn't been any attempt to whitewash pretty awful behavior in our family's past. I can't imagine not feeling comfortable asking my mother. "Hey mom, I've been meaning to ask you something. Cousin Velma told me this crazy story that Paw Paw was a grand wizard in the KKK. That seems outrageous to me. Do you know anything about that?"

Then take cues from mom about whether to leave it alone or not. I agree that as we get older we often are more interested in the memories and experiences that our older relatives had, both good and bad. I also don't think that it's a bad thing to be curious or ask questions if it's done respectfully.

This is great and you are lucky, but don't assume that every family is this way. Some (many) families are very good at denial, covering up in interest of the "family name" and casting aside the black sheep.