Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:23     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Okay, DCUM. Answer this question for me.

I would like to fly to Oregon to visit my family with my 5 year old child and my 45 year old husband. My mom lives in a town that is not served by Southwest but is served by other airlines (with a connection).

1) How far in advance should I book this vacation, in order to comply with DCUM's "far enough in advance" etiquette?
2) If I book on one of the 2 airlines that flies into the town where my mom lives and when booking, I am only given the option of paying $50-75 extra per seat per flight to sit together or selecting seats that are not close together, am I truly expected to pay $600-900 extra to upgrade our seats for this trip, or is it okay if I pick from the available seats and then try to change when I check in/at the gate/on the plane?
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:21     Subject: Re:airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:The worst story I've heard was from an friend in an online forum. She was flying with her teenage son, and her 5 year old triplets. One of whom was blind, nonverbal, and unable to sit unsupported. He needs to fly in a carseat due to positioning issues, which means that, by law, she needed a window seat for him. She called the airline every couple weeks to confirm that their seats were still together, but when she arrived to check in they had been split up all over the plane in middle seats. The check in people told her to talk to the gate, and the gate told her to talk to the person on the plane, who told her to solve it herself. Clearly an ADA violation, because the right to be seated next to a companion, and to use a special needs carseats, is absolutely protected for individuals with disabilities, but it's not like she brought her own lawyer, and at that point they'd already loaded the wheelchair into the hold, making it almost impossible to leave the airport.

On the plane she was able to find someone to trade so they got 2 seats together, where they put the teen and the child with a disability, and then 3 middle seats behind each other, so she could sit behind the other 2 5 year olds and know if they needed her (I think she told them to raise their hands).

Having said that, being 5 is not a legally protected designation, the way a disability is. In the situation above separating the child from a caregiver was illegal, because of ADA, which doesn't apply to OP. The mom had also done everything in her power to be able to sit together, including calling many times and noting the child's disability on the flight manifest.


And she is totally in the right. But that is not what happened to OP.

Look, airlines are shitty in a million ways, no doubt. There are a thousand stories which make all our blood boil about how they treat us passengers, our property, our time and our money. However, you can't knowingly sign up for a situation that doesn't work and then expect the airline or other people to solve the problem for you, and that is what OP is doing.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:21     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
I've had good luck and bad luck. The one time I really couldn't get anyone to switch I went and told the flight attendant and the pilot, who happened to be standing there, we needed to get off the plane and have our luggage taken off, as my 5-year old was petrified of sitting alone and I very calmly shared what my experience as a mother to this child told me would happen if we tried to force him to sit alone in a middle seat. The flight attendant, who up to that point had taken a "your problem, not mine" attitude, was quickly moved to action. It helped I think that the pilot was appalled to learn that a scared 5-year old was expected to sit alone (in between two large men, one of whom was already obviously drunk or high or both).
Now I simply won't take a plane if I can't book two seats together at the time of booking. This makes Southwest a no-go from the start. While my family is by no means rich, I am fortunate that I can opt to pay more for this.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:19     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Most of you are ridiculous. No, everyone can't just pay more or take another airline. Those options aren't always available. One month isn't last minute, and sometimes work schedules, family emergencies, etc make it difficult or impossible to plan further ahead. And yet, little kids should not have to sit alone. Airlines created this problem by holding out SO many seats for which passengers must pay extra, greatly limiting the availability of "regular" seats. Guess what? Almost no one wants those seats, so they sit unreserved, until the day of the flight when they are given to whoever doesn't have a seat, without having paid extra. Meanwhile, families can't book seats (either at all or without paying a lot more) together because of the airlines' BS attempts to mickle and dime us for every damn thing. It's the airlines' fault, but it doesn't kill people to be nice and trade seats. With a family of four like OP's, just 2 of 8 possible people need to change seats. It's unlikely they all have some condition making this difficult. DCUMers love to wag their tongues about "entitled" parents who should have just done this or that, but fortunately, most people in real life are nicer and more helpful.




I agree with this. This thread is crazy.

I do like the idea of offering money. Heck, there was a time in my life I would have switched for $20.


So you are, no questions asked, going to switch out of your aisle/window seat into a middle seat for a 5-hour cross country flight?


NP here -- I would if the airline offered me a free ticket or even some $$ toward my next flight with them. Absolutely.


Another NP here - I would without compensation because I've been in a similar position as OP (due to the airline switching equipment, and it's happened several times, but you never know what another family's circumstances are). I'm also from the west coast and fly there a lot, so I personally don't feel like a five hour flight is that big a deal. Unless it's a red eye and I need a window seat to lean against and sleep, I honestly don't get the problem.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:19     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Most of you are ridiculous. No, everyone can't just pay more or take another airline. Those options aren't always available. One month isn't last minute, and sometimes work schedules, family emergencies, etc make it difficult or impossible to plan further ahead. And yet, little kids should not have to sit alone. Airlines created this problem by holding out SO many seats for which passengers must pay extra, greatly limiting the availability of "regular" seats. Guess what? Almost no one wants those seats, so they sit unreserved, until the day of the flight when they are given to whoever doesn't have a seat, without having paid extra. Meanwhile, families can't book seats (either at all or without paying a lot more) together because of the airlines' BS attempts to mickle and dime us for every damn thing. It's the airlines' fault, but it doesn't kill people to be nice and trade seats. With a family of four like OP's, just 2 of 8 possible people need to change seats. It's unlikely they all have some condition making this difficult. DCUMers love to wag their tongues about "entitled" parents who should have just done this or that, but fortunately, most people in real life are nicer and more helpful.


First, this is a vacation, not a family emergency. Second, this isn't just as simple as "be nice and trade seats." OP knowingly booked 4 separate middle seats--which are universally considered the least desirable--for a 5 hour flight across the country. Most people are "nice" and are willing to trade seats for a comparable seat (aisle for aisle, window for window, middle for middle).

But stop trying to make it so black and white. If someone asks you to trade your window/aisle seat for a middle seat on a long flight across the country, I think the person has every right to turn down that request without being deemed mean or unhelpful.


If someone says to you, "Would you be willing to trade seats with me/my 5 year old so that we can sit together?" and you are unwilling to do that, I don't see anything wrong with thinking that you are unhelpful, given that you did not in fact help. As for considering you mean, that would depend entirely on the manner of your refusal. If you refuse the way that a lot of people on this thread are ("selfish and entitled!" "not my fault that you didn't plan!" "blame the airline!"), then I don't see anything wrong with thinking you're mean. You have the right to refuse. I have the right to think that you're mean and unhelpful. You have the right to think that I'm selfish and entitled. How nice that we all have rights.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:17     Subject: Re:airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
I do have sympathy for the OP. I guess because I had a flight to Mexico years ago with my 4 y.o. seated away from me and no other flights worked for our vacation. We booked through Orbitz or something and we didn't get to pick our seats. The gate agents were absolute prigs.

Then there was the time that I did book 2 middle/window combinations for my family of four, and the airline deleted our seat assignments. I caught it and it got fixed, but not in as good of a combination as I had had.

I fly a lot, but don't have enough status to get a good seat from the get go. I just booked a three leg journey to California and back and the only seats were middle. I just kept checking back every day to see if seats windows or aisles opened up, and the did. The hard part is that the seats were all singles.

OP - keep checking the sites. Don't just focus on getting together, focus on getting a "tradeable" seat - aisles are best, and window are second. No one wants a middle. Try to get at least two aisles, one aisle and a window or 2 windows (not necessarily together). Then you can trade apples for apples for the folks sitting next to your kids in middle seats. Or middle seat to middle seat to move your kids.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:17     Subject: Re:airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
The worst story I've heard was from an friend in an online forum. She was flying with her teenage son, and her 5 year old triplets. One of whom was blind, nonverbal, and unable to sit unsupported. He needs to fly in a carseat due to positioning issues, which means that, by law, she needed a window seat for him. She called the airline every couple weeks to confirm that their seats were still together, but when she arrived to check in they had been split up all over the plane in middle seats. The check in people told her to talk to the gate, and the gate told her to talk to the person on the plane, who told her to solve it herself. Clearly an ADA violation, because the right to be seated next to a companion, and to use a special needs carseats, is absolutely protected for individuals with disabilities, but it's not like she brought her own lawyer, and at that point they'd already loaded the wheelchair into the hold, making it almost impossible to leave the airport.

On the plane she was able to find someone to trade so they got 2 seats together, where they put the teen and the child with a disability, and then 3 middle seats behind each other, so she could sit behind the other 2 5 year olds and know if they needed her (I think she told them to raise their hands).

Having said that, being 5 is not a legally protected designation, the way a disability is. In the situation above separating the child from a caregiver was illegal, because of ADA, which doesn't apply to OP. The mom had also done everything in her power to be able to sit together, including calling many times and noting the child's disability on the flight manifest.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:14     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Most of you are ridiculous. No, everyone can't just pay more or take another airline. Those options aren't always available. One month isn't last minute, and sometimes work schedules, family emergencies, etc make it difficult or impossible to plan further ahead. And yet, little kids should not have to sit alone. Airlines created this problem by holding out SO many seats for which passengers must pay extra, greatly limiting the availability of "regular" seats. Guess what? Almost no one wants those seats, so they sit unreserved, until the day of the flight when they are given to whoever doesn't have a seat, without having paid extra. Meanwhile, families can't book seats (either at all or without paying a lot more) together because of the airlines' BS attempts to mickle and dime us for every damn thing. It's the airlines' fault, but it doesn't kill people to be nice and trade seats. With a family of four like OP's, just 2 of 8 possible people need to change seats. It's unlikely they all have some condition making this difficult. DCUMers love to wag their tongues about "entitled" parents who should have just done this or that, but fortunately, most people in real life are nicer and more helpful.




I agree with this. This thread is crazy.

I do like the idea of offering money. Heck, there was a time in my life I would have switched for $20.


So you are, no questions asked, going to switch out of your aisle/window seat into a middle seat for a 5-hour cross country flight?


NP here -- I would if the airline offered me a free ticket or even some $$ toward my next flight with them. Absolutely.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:13     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately if you only have middle seats you will have a hard road ahead of you. Keep trying to rebook your seats to get two windows or aisles. That way you can do a middle-middle trade, which people will be willing to do. I hate to say it, but it's the wild west on planes these days. People won't help you if it means switching their window or aisle (which as PPs said they may have paid significantly more for) for your middle seat. You should have not have picked a flight with this problem, and yes you did know before you purchased.

Sorry. (Signed, a frequent flyer who has small children and tries to fly southwest for this reason).


Southwest has family boarding but if the plane is coming from another location first and is full, its a problem. We had that happen once.


PP here -- wow, I've never seen this but will keep it in mind, because I agree that would be a pain.

Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:11     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:

I did that too with my 8 month old. We asked the people in all the rows to switch, everyone said no. Flight attendant would not help so I installed the seat, put the bottle in the car seat, told the people next to him that there was food, diapers/wipes, toys, extra clothing which they will need along with a burp cloth on the car seat and told them he had bad reflux so here is a burp cloth to catch it as it sometimes projects pretty far. We had to go to an medical appointment (and its easy to say do not fly, but often we are flying to out of state medical appointments).



No you did not. You're straight-up lying. An 8 month old can be a lap child on flights, what parent would leave an 8 month old rows away in that situation?

Let me guess... you installed the seat, held the baby as a lap child most of the flight, and put the baby down for 3 minutes in the seat with the car seat while you went to the bathroom, and now you're telling a tall tale.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:10     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:They once sat my 18 month alone, and the gate agent wouldn't move her. So I skipped onto the plane, buckled her in, kissed her goodbye and skipped off to my seat. Within ten seconds she was screaming and within 20 seconds they magically found a way to seat her next to me.


18 month olds are the best age for this trick, no doubt.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:10     Subject: Re:airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At five, both of our kids sat alone on direct flights to California. No problem. I'm guessing it won't be a big deal for the kids or other passengers if your kids wind up seated separately (though I'm guessing someone will offer to switch seats). The OP's kids are five, not three, so I don't think there's much to worry about, especially if she prepares them beforehand. They may see if as a big kid adventure!


Good for your kids. You're lucky. My kids are exceptionally shy, with one having a diagnosed anxiety disorder, and would have been terrified to fly at age 5 seated next to strangers with mommy/daddy far away.

We always fly Southwest whenever we can to try to avoid these situations.


And that is precisely what should happen, and confirms that you are a caring parent and a decent person.

Contrast that with OP - her husband had a work trip scheduled a month out, she thought, "Great, we can make this into a vacation!", went to book tickets, discovered that the flight she wanted (likely the one her husband was on/needed to be on) only had middle seats, and went ahead and booked anyway. Now, not one but two people are expected to switch to one of her middle seats so her kids will be able to sit next to someone. She could have booked Southwest and avoided this problem - but she didn't. That likely would have been inconvenient for her, and we can't have that - let's just inconvenience other people instead.

I dislike calling people names, even on DCUM, but OP is a jerk.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:09     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
They once sat my 18 month alone, and the gate agent wouldn't move her. So I skipped onto the plane, buckled her in, kissed her goodbye and skipped off to my seat. Within ten seconds she was screaming and within 20 seconds they magically found a way to seat her next to me.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:07     Subject: Re:airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:At five, both of our kids sat alone on direct flights to California. No problem. I'm guessing it won't be a big deal for the kids or other passengers if your kids wind up seated separately (though I'm guessing someone will offer to switch seats). The OP's kids are five, not three, so I don't think there's much to worry about, especially if she prepares them beforehand. They may see if as a big kid adventure!


Good for your kids. You're lucky. My kids are exceptionally shy, with one having a diagnosed anxiety disorder, and would have been terrified to fly at age 5 seated next to strangers with mommy/daddy far away.

We always fly Southwest whenever we can to try to avoid these situations.


Kudos to you for recognizing your specific situation, and doing all that you can on the front end to mitigate the chances of being separated from your child.
Anonymous
Post 06/09/2015 13:06     Subject: airplane -- seats not together with 5 year olds
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Most of you are ridiculous. No, everyone can't just pay more or take another airline. Those options aren't always available. One month isn't last minute, and sometimes work schedules, family emergencies, etc make it difficult or impossible to plan further ahead. And yet, little kids should not have to sit alone. Airlines created this problem by holding out SO many seats for which passengers must pay extra, greatly limiting the availability of "regular" seats. Guess what? Almost no one wants those seats, so they sit unreserved, until the day of the flight when they are given to whoever doesn't have a seat, without having paid extra. Meanwhile, families can't book seats (either at all or without paying a lot more) together because of the airlines' BS attempts to mickle and dime us for every damn thing. It's the airlines' fault, but it doesn't kill people to be nice and trade seats. With a family of four like OP's, just 2 of 8 possible people need to change seats. It's unlikely they all have some condition making this difficult. DCUMers love to wag their tongues about "entitled" parents who should have just done this or that, but fortunately, most people in real life are nicer and more helpful.




I agree with this. This thread is crazy.

I do like the idea of offering money. Heck, there was a time in my life I would have switched for $20.


So you are, no questions asked, going to switch out of your aisle/window seat into a middle seat for a 5-hour cross country flight?