Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Also, why is it ok to have elite schools overwhelmingly white? Because currently most are.

Arguably, that's the real question.

The obvious answer to why that might be okay would be the frank admission that, in the U.S., access to college is more about money and power than about intellectual achievement or promise. That's the logic of capitalism and of private education.

To the extent that it's not okay, it's because we think schools should be more racially representative of the populations they serve. In which case policies design to ensure the admission of underrepresented minorities make sense.

Meritocracy is a third option, but it's probably the least descriptive of our educational system or its goals.


B

. Look at the racial makeup of America. Currently, whites are the racial majority. It stands to reason, by shear numbers (77% white vs 13% black) that there would be more whites represented. There is nothing nefarious about a this.

Anonymous wrote:
Also, why is it ok to have elite schools overwhelmingly white? Because currently most are.

Arguably, that's the real question.

The obvious answer to why that might be okay would be the frank admission that, in the U.S., access to college is more about money and power than about intellectual achievement or promise. That's the logic of capitalism and of private education.

To the extent that it's not okay, it's because we think schools should be more racially representative of the populations they serve. In which case policies design to ensure the admission of underrepresented minorities make sense.

Meritocracy is a third option, but it's probably the least descriptive of our educational system or its goals.

Please don't confuse Asians with Asian Americans.

Asians have a weird obsession with Harvard. Do you know any current Harvard students or recent grads? If so, ask them about it.

Anonymous wrote:OP, no one is entitled to a spot at an Ivy even if they have perfect scores, ECs, grades, etc. Cry me a river. People can do well going anywhere. No one wants a school composed of only Asians...unless you are in an Asian country.

I think you are missing the point. Asian Americans are not saying they are entitled to spots at Ivy League Schools. They only want to be treated equally as in "equal protection under the law" in college admission process. They do not want to be treated differently merely because of race.

Anonymous wrote:OP, no one is entitled to a spot at an Ivy even if they have perfect scores, ECs, grades, etc. Cry me a river. People can do well going anywhere. No one wants a school composed of only Asians...unless you are in an Asian country.

So you're telling me, in a hypothetical world where Black/Latinos made up majorities at any given elite school, you would be in favor of admissions policies designed to keep their numbers down?

Also, why is it ok to have elite schools overwhelmingly white? Because currently most are.

Even if you buy the mismatch hypothesis, then the solution isn't to get rid of affirmative action but to create more (and perhaps more targeted) resources to address pre-collegiate educational inequalities. That can mean summer and supplemental programs (specifically in STEM fields, if that's where lack of preparation tends to push kids off their preferred path) for students the college has already admitted. It can also mean earlier outreach to/partnerships with local middle and high schools to provide kids access to quality math and science instruction.

OP, no one is entitled to a spot at an Ivy even if they have perfect scores, ECs, grades, etc. Cry me a river. People can do well going anywhere. No one wants a school composed of only Asians...unless you are in an Asian country.

Anonymous wrote:But it's not the only standard for academic preparedness -- transcripts, GPAs, letters of recommendation, SAT IIs, and a writing sample are all in the file as well.

Back in the day (in my case, around the time of the Bakke decision), Harvard collected data about how students from each HS did once they got to Harvard. So there was a kind of institutional track record wrt adequacy of preparation as well as data on the individual applicant.

I recommend any serious thinker of this important social issue to read recent works by a Duke economist Peter Arcidiacono. I linked one above that is still a working paper. The one below is published. And he has more publications in this area as well. I think his work is really fair and balanced. And mostly he discusses the idea of mis-fit. He found in various different selective schools that the affirmative action beneficiaries at times were mismatched in terms of academic preparedness and demand. A main phenomenon he noticed is that they switched out of tough majors and express less satisfaction with the school in question. Something to think about.

http://www.qeconomics.org/ojs/index.php/qe/article/view/25

But it's not the only standard for academic preparedness -- transcripts, GPAs, letters of recommendation, SAT IIs, and a writing sample are all in the file as well.

Back in the day (in my case, around the time of the Bakke decision), Harvard collected data about how students from each HS did once they got to Harvard. So there was a kind of institutional track record wrt adequacy of preparation as well as data on the individual applicant.

http://public.econ.duke.edu/~psarcidi/stem.pdf

This is a very interesting study. It basically said the less prepared students are better off in lower ranked school where they are more likely to major in a lucrative field rather than be sociology major and had worse career outcomes.

It is debatable whether SAT 2100 is indeed an adequate mark for academic preparedness.

Black/Hispanic scores are lower, as a group, than Asian scores. After the first cut, where everyone deemed "not academically qualified" are rejected, SAT scores are not considered in making admissions decisions. For the purposes of this discussion, let's just say that anyone whose SAT is below 2100 is rejected at this point, but the determination of academic qualification is probably more complicated and less clear cut.

Now the distribution of scores for everyone who is left looks quite different. For the Asians, the scores likely skew higher than the scores for Blacks, simply because a 2100 is a 99th percentile score for Blacks as a whole. For Asians, a 2100 is only around the 90th percentile, with 2400 being the 99th percentile score.

Selection after this point appears random with respect to SAT scores because they are based on non-quantifiable factors, but, as expected, the accepted Asians have a much higher SAT score than the accepted Blacks. It has nothing to do with Black applicants being given a boost.

Anonymous wrote:Cannot read it. It is behind pay wall. Can you summarize a little?

"The complaint announced on Friday, echoing a lawsuit filed by another group in November, accuses Harvard and other elite institutions of holding Asian-Americans to far higher standards than other applicants, a practice used to limit the number of Jewish students at Ivy League schools in the first half of the 20th century.

Citing several academic studies, the complaint notes that Asians have some of the highest academic credentials but the lowest acceptance rates at the nation’s top schools, a result that the coalition attributes to “just-for-Asians admissions standards that impose unfair and illegal burdens on Asian-American college applicants.” " ---

"Schools use “holistic” criteria as a way to apply different standards to different applicant groups—e.g., play down objective test scores for Asians, play up subjective recommendation letters for blacks and Hispanics." ---

"In practice, however, there is strong evidence that racial balance is the highest priority at schools like Harvard, and holistic admissions are used to obscure the racial bean-counting necessary to obtain the desired racial mix." ---

Cannot read it. It is behind pay wall. Can you summarize a little?

The New Jews of Harvard Admissions

Asian-Americans are rebelling over evidence that they are held to a much higher standard, but elite colleges deny using quotas.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-jews-of-harvard-admissions-1432077157