Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Picture this:

Teacher is teaching a class--whether it is direct instruction with feedback from students or supervising students while they work on a paper does not matter. Child at the end of the row decides to take out a fragrant lip balm and smear it all over his paper instead of listening or working as the other students. Said child then starts sniffing the paper. Child is not paying attention and is distracting other kids with his actions--he is essentially assaulting the rest of his class with the smell and his actions of sniffing the paper are also distracting.

Mom does not understand why the other kids do not understand that her son needs to be treated differently. She wants him accepted in their social interactions and, yet, does not understand that he is bothering the others. Basically, he is holding the rest of the class hostage to his behavior.
I understand that the child may have sensory issues--however, if he needs to be sniffing all the time and cannot function in the class, there is a problem. It sounds to me like the mom is mad at the teacher for trying to let the child know that the behavior is not acceptable.

"Assaulting?"
You know, most children past the age of 10 start to look plain and unattractive, let alone ugly. Odds are your kids fit in that very broad middle ground (read all about it, folks! By definition, 50% of the population is less attractive than average, and no amount of make-up can fix that). Should we let them know that their looks are an assault to other people's sense of sight and that having them in our field of view ( and more specifically, the field of view of this drop-dead gorgeous SN teen I know) is really distracting and unacceptable?

I volunteered in my child's classrooms for years. Here's what I observed of typical students with no challenges at all:

- "Johnny" used to smell so bad that I could scarcely stand to be seated next to him while I had to help edit his paper. It was clear that he hadn't showered in a couple of days. He smelled of body odor and dirty clothing. This was a recurring problem throughout the year.

- "James" was a typical student but was a sore loser with games at recess. When he saw a member of the opposing team at recess cheering their team's win, he approached him and calmly told him he would "beat him to a pulp" if he so much as said another word. And then he added, "And I think you know I can, don't you?"

Should schools ask all the Johnny's and James to find a private school? What about the otherwise well behaved students who have engaged in bullying by exclusion of children with special needs? Should we ask them to find other private schools too?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Picture this:

Teacher is teaching a class--whether it is direct instruction with feedback from students or supervising students while they work on a paper does not matter. Child at the end of the row decides to take out a fragrant lip balm and smear it all over his paper instead of listening or working as the other students. Said child then starts sniffing the paper. Child is not paying attention and is distracting other kids with his actions--he is essentially assaulting the rest of his class with the smell and his actions of sniffing the paper are also distracting.

Mom does not understand why the other kids do not understand that her son needs to be treated differently. She wants him accepted in their social interactions and, yet, does not understand that he is bothering the others. Basically, he is holding the rest of the class hostage to his behavior.
I understand that the child may have sensory issues--however, if he needs to be sniffing all the time and cannot function in the class, there is a problem. It sounds to me like the mom is mad at the teacher for trying to let the child know that the behavior is not acceptable.

You really do not understand anything about children in a classroom and come off as painfully intolerant and ignorant of children with special needs. Just because a behavior is not acceptable it doesn't you can make it go away, just like that. There are many neurotypical children with distracting behaviors in class. Sniffing a paper is not out of the norm at all - I know, I volunteer in a 4th grade classroom! However, it's the accumulation of information children have about OP's child, that makes him stand out as slightly off-putting. Children are incredibly sensitive to such things, and it takes active and continual inclusion tactics from the school (teachers, psychologist, paraeducators) to bring the kids to an accepting state of mind. So the burden is on the school, starting from the top.

Thank you, PP. I am the OP. That poster is the type of parent who may be the cause for my son's bullying and exclusion because it is likely they have failed to teach their own children how to be empathic toward children with special needs. He or she has a complete emotional disconnection with the needs of children with challenges and also does not understand that the laws of our country support our child's staying in a public school system. If he or she thinks smelling a piece of paper with lip balm on it is so utterly distracting to her neurotypical child, it is HER child who should consider transferring to a private school to avoid children with special needs. My child with special needs is protected by law to remain in public school.

The scented paper and lip balm were completely fine with the principal, vice principal, and the special education coordinator at the school also.

It seems to me that he or she would love to castaway all students with special needs with any behavior challenges. That poster should understand that how we treat different people, particularly people with special needs and even behavior challenges, is a reflection of our humanity. It is incumbent upon us as parents to reach our children empathy, sensitivity, and tolerance. The world is diverse and pluralistic. The only way our children can function in such a world is to learn tolerance.

Anonymous wrote:Picture this:

Teacher is teaching a class--whether it is direct instruction with feedback from students or supervising students while they work on a paper does not matter. Child at the end of the row decides to take out a fragrant lip balm and smear it all over his paper instead of listening or working as the other students. Said child then starts sniffing the paper. Child is not paying attention and is distracting other kids with his actions--he is essentially assaulting the rest of his class with the smell and his actions of sniffing the paper are also distracting.

Mom does not understand why the other kids do not understand that her son needs to be treated differently. She wants him accepted in their social interactions and, yet, does not understand that he is bothering the others. Basically, he is holding the rest of the class hostage to his behavior.
I understand that the child may have sensory issues--however, if he needs to be sniffing all the time and cannot function in the class, there is a problem. It sounds to me like the mom is mad at the teacher for trying to let the child know that the behavior is not acceptable.

"Assaulting?"
You know, most children past the age of 10 start to look plain and unattractive, let alone ugly. Odds are your kids fit in that very broad middle ground (read all about it, folks! By definition, 50% of the population is less attractive than average, and no amount of make-up can fix that). Should we let them know that their looks are an assault to other people's sense of sight and that having them in our field of view ( and more specifically, the field of view of this drop-dead gorgeous SN teen I know) is really distracting and unacceptable?

Anonymous wrote:Picture this:

Teacher is teaching a class--whether it is direct instruction with feedback from students or supervising students while they work on a paper does not matter. Child at the end of the row decides to take out a fragrant lip balm and smear it all over his paper instead of listening or working as the other students. Said child then starts sniffing the paper. Child is not paying attention and is distracting other kids with his actions--he is essentially assaulting the rest of his class with the smell and his actions of sniffing the paper are also distracting.

Mom does not understand why the other kids do not understand that her son needs to be treated differently. She wants him accepted in their social interactions and, yet, does not understand that he is bothering the others. Basically, he is holding the rest of the class hostage to his behavior.
I understand that the child may have sensory issues--however, if he needs to be sniffing all the time and cannot function in the class, there is a problem. It sounds to me like the mom is mad at the teacher for trying to let the child know that the behavior is not acceptable.

You really do not understand anything about children in a classroom and come off as painfully intolerant and ignorant of children with special needs. Just because a behavior is not acceptable it doesn't you can make it go away, just like that. There are many neurotypical children with distracting behaviors in class. Sniffing a paper is not out of the norm at all - I know, I volunteer in a 4th grade classroom! However, it's the accumulation of information children have about OP's child, that makes him stand out as slightly off-putting. Children are incredibly sensitive to such things, and it takes active and continual inclusion tactics from the school (teachers, psychologist, paraeducators) to bring the kids to an accepting state of mind. So the burden is on the school, starting from the top.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

...and still, so many comments about the lip balm, but not much mention of the exclusion and disrespect and bullying that OP's child has gone through. I find bullying and teasing more objectionable than the smell of lip balm.

Are we really sure there has been bullying and teasing--or just exclusion?

And, OP needs to accept the fact that smearing lip balm and smelling it is going to make her son difficult to fit in.......

Psychologically, exclusion and ostracization is a rather severe form of bullying.

not pp but I read it as unintentional exclusion, more like choosing certain friends to play with rather than seeking out a child who seems to be alone.

Picture this:

Teacher is teaching a class--whether it is direct instruction with feedback from students or supervising students while they work on a paper does not matter. Child at the end of the row decides to take out a fragrant lip balm and smear it all over his paper instead of listening or working as the other students. Said child then starts sniffing the paper. Child is not paying attention and is distracting other kids with his actions--he is essentially assaulting the rest of his class with the smell and his actions of sniffing the paper are also distracting.

Mom does not understand why the other kids do not understand that her son needs to be treated differently. She wants him accepted in their social interactions and, yet, does not understand that he is bothering the others. Basically, he is holding the rest of the class hostage to his behavior.
I understand that the child may have sensory issues--however, if he needs to be sniffing all the time and cannot function in the class, there is a problem. It sounds to me like the mom is mad at the teacher for trying to let the child know that the behavior is not acceptable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the parent of a NT kid who is a bit of a follower (and who has some friends who have mean girl tendencies), I worry about this. She's about the kindest, most understanding kid in the world (no, I'm not biased!) but I think she could be susceptible to groupthink. It's not that others are leading her astray - she's responsible for her own behavior. I for one would be mortified if she excluded anyone, and would want it brought to my attention. We teach her to be kind and understanding, but at some point, you have to trust that she's doing the right thing.

That said, she has several kids in her class who have some serious issues, and she avoids them. As kids get older, and physical differences are accentuated, I'm not going to tell her that she has to play with boys who can stop roughhousing, or won't stop when she tells them to. Making her responsible for her own safety and body means she gets to decide not to be around people who don't treat her right. It's tough for kids to draw these fine distinctions.

Not OP but thanks for this thoughtful post. Of course you csnt police your daughter's behavior and she has to make her own calls about children she feels unsafe around. I just thank you as the parent of a child w special needs for teaching her that it's important to be kind to people who are different including when they look or act in ways that seem strange to her. This goes for kids who use a walker, have Down Syndrome, flap their arms, smell their lip balm a lot, etc.

OP here. True! Roughhousing crosses the line. Lip balms are benign. As are speech impediments. As are developmental delays or issues with social skills. They do not usually do not harm anyone.

There is a big difference between a speech delay and your child smearing lip balm and being inappropriate in class. For a speech issue, kids get speech therapy and typically are fine in their behavior. It sounds like your child needs to be in a more specialized setting and its time for a new IEP or for you to pay for a private school that is better able to meet his needs. You are complaining but are clearly not part of the solution. We have our child in a small private and after school he has several day a week therapies. Your child clearly cannot handle being mainstreamed in a very large classroom with a teacher trying to meet 20-30 kids needs. It is up to you to come up with a solution as many of us have when the public schools have failed our children. Nor is comparing a child with downs or a walker similar to a child with autism or other disorders that impact their behavior. Instead of complaining, take the time to do something as your child needs to learn to function on his own in the real world.

Private school is a choice for the rich.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the parent of a NT kid who is a bit of a follower (and who has some friends who have mean girl tendencies), I worry about this. She's about the kindest, most understanding kid in the world (no, I'm not biased!) but I think she could be susceptible to groupthink. It's not that others are leading her astray - she's responsible for her own behavior. I for one would be mortified if she excluded anyone, and would want it brought to my attention. We teach her to be kind and understanding, but at some point, you have to trust that she's doing the right thing.

That said, she has several kids in her class who have some serious issues, and she avoids them. As kids get older, and physical differences are accentuated, I'm not going to tell her that she has to play with boys who can stop roughhousing, or won't stop when she tells them to. Making her responsible for her own safety and body means she gets to decide not to be around people who don't treat her right. It's tough for kids to draw these fine distinctions.

Not OP but thanks for this thoughtful post. Of course you csnt police your daughter's behavior and she has to make her own calls about children she feels unsafe around. I just thank you as the parent of a child w special needs for teaching her that it's important to be kind to people who are different including when they look or act in ways that seem strange to her. This goes for kids who use a walker, have Down Syndrome, flap their arms, smell their lip balm a lot, etc.

OP here. True! Roughhousing crosses the line. Lip balms are benign. As are speech impediments. As are developmental delays or issues with social skills. They do not usually do not harm anyone.

There is a big difference between a speech delay and your child smearing lip balm and being inappropriate in class. For a speech issue, kids get speech therapy and typically are fine in their behavior. It sounds like your child needs to be in a more specialized setting and its time for a new IEP or for you to pay for a private school that is better able to meet his needs. You are complaining but are clearly not part of the solution. We have our child in a small private and after school he has several day a week therapies. Your child clearly cannot handle being mainstreamed in a very large classroom with a teacher trying to meet 20-30 kids needs. It is up to you to come up with a solution as many of us have when the public schools have failed our children. Nor is comparing a child with downs or a walker similar to a child with autism or other disorders that impact their behavior. Instead of complaining, take the time to do something as your child needs to learn to function on his own in the real world.

Anonymous wrote:

...and still, so many comments about the lip balm, but not much mention of the exclusion and disrespect and bullying that OP's child has gone through. I find bullying and teasing more objectionable than the smell of lip balm.

Are we really sure there has been bullying and teasing--or just exclusion?

And, OP needs to accept the fact that smearing lip balm and smelling it is going to make her son difficult to fit in.......

Psychologically, exclusion and ostracization is a rather severe form of bullying.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my kids' ES, kids often volunteer during lunch to work with PEP and SCB. So it's actually part of the culture, which is lovely. My daughter tried, but she was beaten to it!

OP here. PP, this is the kind of school and the kind of students I would like my SN child to be around. May I ask - what school this is? I honestly would consider even moving to a district like this in the future. I have other children and would want them to be in this kind of school too.

As for the PP who said her daughter prefers smart, well behaved children and would likely not go out of her way to show friendliness toward SN kids, I'm happy that your daughter is neurotypical to enjoy such friendships. However, I would ask how you would want your daughter to be treated if she were born with CP, DS, ASD, any special needs that clearly distinguishes her from classmates. If she sat alone on a bench while 80 children her age played at recess daily, would you want others to go up to her and encourage her to join them? Or would you prefer she sat alone daily?

Sherwood Elementary (MCPS)

wow thank you. what a terrible place to be kid witnessing/participating in the exclusion of an odd one and what a terrible place to be a kid who is an odd one. I think bullying is hurtful for the kids witnessing it (who then feel unsafe - "I could be next") and for the kids perpertaing it (who are experiencing a gross power over weaker person)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the parent of a NT kid who is a bit of a follower (and who has some friends who have mean girl tendencies), I worry about this. She's about the kindest, most understanding kid in the world (no, I'm not biased!) but I think she could be susceptible to groupthink. It's not that others are leading her astray - she's responsible for her own behavior. I for one would be mortified if she excluded anyone, and would want it brought to my attention. We teach her to be kind and understanding, but at some point, you have to trust that she's doing the right thing.

That said, she has several kids in her class who have some serious issues, and she avoids them. As kids get older, and physical differences are accentuated, I'm not going to tell her that she has to play with boys who can stop roughhousing, or won't stop when she tells them to. Making her responsible for her own safety and body means she gets to decide not to be around people who don't treat her right. It's tough for kids to draw these fine distinctions.

Not OP but thanks for this thoughtful post. Of course you csnt police your daughter's behavior and she has to make her own calls about children she feels unsafe around. I just thank you as the parent of a child w special needs for teaching her that it's important to be kind to people who are different including when they look or act in ways that seem strange to her. This goes for kids who use a walker, have Down Syndrome, flap their arms, smell their lip balm a lot, etc.

OP here. True! Roughhousing crosses the line. Lip balms are benign. As are speech impediments. As are developmental delays or issues with social skills. They do not usually do not harm anyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my kids' ES, kids often volunteer during lunch to work with PEP and SCB. So it's actually part of the culture, which is lovely. My daughter tried, but she was beaten to it!

OP here. PP, this is the kind of school and the kind of students I would like my SN child to be around. May I ask - what school this is? I honestly would consider even moving to a district like this in the future. I have other children and would want them to be in this kind of school too.

As for the PP who said her daughter prefers smart, well behaved children and would likely not go out of her way to show friendliness toward SN kids, I'm happy that your daughter is neurotypical to enjoy such friendships. However, I would ask how you would want your daughter to be treated if she were born with CP, DS, ASD, any special needs that clearly distinguishes her from classmates. If she sat alone on a bench while 80 children her age played at recess daily, would you want others to go up to her and encourage her to join them? Or would you prefer she sat alone daily?

Sherwood Elementary (MCPS)

Anonymous wrote:

...and still, so many comments about the lip balm, but not much mention of the exclusion and disrespect and bullying that OP's child has gone through. I find bullying and teasing more objectionable than the smell of lip balm.

Are we really sure there has been bullying and teasing--or just exclusion?

And, OP needs to accept the fact that smearing lip balm and smelling it is going to make her son difficult to fit in.......

PP here...Bullied by exclusion, shoved in the hall, discouraged from speaking, etc. Sounds like bullying. Exclusion can be bullying if it's intentional.

I think OP thinks the teacher overreacted to the lip balm, since we're back on the subject. I tend to agree.

...and still, so many comments about the lip balm, but not much mention of the exclusion and disrespect and bullying that OP's child has gone through. I find bullying and teasing more objectionable than the smell of lip balm.

Are we really sure there has been bullying and teasing--or just exclusion?

And, OP needs to accept the fact that smearing lip balm and smelling it is going to make her son difficult to fit in.......

Anonymous wrote:OP, I certainly want my kids to be nice to everyone and I wish you the best but you need to recognize that your child's behavior affects his ability to form relationships. Yes the teachers and kids should all be sensitive but you need to encourage, bribe, cajole (whatever it takes) into not doing tasks that make him stand out particularly if he continues to do them into adulthood. So no smearing lip balm on paper, no taking it out and sniffing it. I have a 5 year old who sometimes picks his boogers and eats them. It is disgusting. I tell him that no one will be his friend in kindergarten if he does that then I make him wash his hands. I used to teach first grade and I know this behavior would get him teased. Instead of me insisting that everyone should be sensitive to his needs, it is up to me to make sure he stops this behavior. If an adult at work or on an airplane seat next to you were smearing something scented on an object and smelling it you would want to move your seat or not work with the person.

...and still, so many comments about the lip balm, but not much mention of the exclusion and disrespect and bullying that OP's child has gone through. I find bullying and teasing more objectionable than the smell of lip balm.