Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 12:58     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Most women here are wives. There is a lot of projection going on. It goes the other way too. Most men would be pissed off at the other guy more than at the cheating wife, because his property rights were infringed on. People are obsessed with possession, I guess.


Exactly. See: Red Ball on Playground example


The point of that is there are thousands of balls. Thousands. Why not move on?
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 12:51     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I do judge the OW when a man leaves his wife and children for her. Then she does have some accountability.

Why would a wife want a husband who wants to be with someone else? This is what I don't get. Some women have zero self-worth, then complain that their men don't want them.

I am not clear on OW's accountablity here. All three are adults capable of making their choices.


Except because it's done in secret, only DH and OW actually have free will choices. That's why it's so offensive to me. The wife doesn't get to choose. Yes, I get that the husband and wife have an obligation to treat each other well. This is obvious: if the husband doesn't feel treated well, it's in the OPEN. That is, it's not a secret. He has every right to negotiate better treatment. When is that courtesy extended to DW? It's extended to the OW who can decide and weigh in on getting involved. That's why the OW doesn't quite avoid full responsibility. She is at least afforded the option of choices, with access to the full view (I don't buy getting innocently deceived - if you don't know friends and family and haven't been to his place, you shouldn't be sleeping with him)
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 12:45     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh, the sad OW here can't take it when somebody calls them out for what they are and cries to Jeff, huh?

I think the sad fact is you can't face the truth of your moral bankruptcy. You are not victims, ladies - you are homewreckers.


The people you were screaming at are not homewreckers. At least I wasn't. I just thought you were being totally crazy.


This thread, painting women who sleep with married men as some kind of victims, is what's crazy. The illogical rationalizing of immoral and socially unacceptable behavior is crazy.

The answer to OP's original question is simple - because, if you knowingly sleep with a married man, you deserve all the hate that gets thrown your way.


I think the point was why the woman is more deserving of our contempt than the man, who is the only person in that situation who is breaking a specific vow. I don't think that either one of them is right, but your over the top BS about whores and hellfire was, in fact, over the top and crazy-sounding.

I was thinking about it more from a human behavior perspective - what motivates people to behave the way they do. If that's not your bag, feel free to be angry. It is actually possible for people to think about things differently without it being illogical rationalization.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 12:39     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oh, the sad OW here can't take it when somebody calls them out for what they are and cries to Jeff, huh?

I think the sad fact is you can't face the truth of your moral bankruptcy. You are not victims, ladies - you are homewreckers.


The people you were screaming at are not homewreckers. At least I wasn't. I just thought you were being totally crazy.


This thread, painting women who sleep with married men as some kind of victims, is what's crazy. The illogical rationalizing of immoral and socially unacceptable behavior is crazy.

The answer to OP's original question is simple - because, if you knowingly sleep with a married man, you deserve all the hate that gets thrown your way.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 12:30     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:Oh, the sad OW here can't take it when somebody calls them out for what they are and cries to Jeff, huh?

I think the sad fact is you can't face the truth of your moral bankruptcy. You are not victims, ladies - you are homewreckers.


The people you were screaming at are not homewreckers. At least I wasn't. I just thought you were being totally crazy.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 12:29     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Oh, the sad OW here can't take it when somebody calls them out for what they are and cries to Jeff, huh?

I think the sad fact is you can't face the truth of your moral bankruptcy. You are not victims, ladies - you are homewreckers.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 11:55     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^ PP here. The cheating spouse is never absolved of responsibility. I just think it's tougher to cheat without a willing participant.


Sure, but cheaters also lie. They say they're separated or divorced. I know people (male and female) who have discovered that their boyfriend/girlfriend was married well after the fact.


I would call the supposed ex to verify.


Okay, so you, as a single person, meet a person who asks you on a date. On the basis of that interaction, you agree and you have long conversations with the person about various things. In conversation, they mention that they were married previously but are not married now. You say, oh, that's unfortunate, how long ago was that, what is the name of your ex, I need to call them to make sure you're REALLY divorced.

That's really what you'd do, in that situation?


I would get to know him and his friends first- before any intimacy. If he is dodgy about including me in his life, then that would be a HUGE red flag.


I watched a young woman friend of mine get completely snowed by a guy. We were all snowed, actually. He was new in town and didn't have many friends, according to him. Just colleagues. They met for dates after work. According to him, he lived pretty far out from downtown (Gaithersburg or something, while working on the Hill) and as a result, they didn't go back to his place. He'd come meet her on the weekend downtown. We (her friends) met the guy, who we thought was nice, funny, friendly and really into our friend. Given that he was actively dating our friend, it really didn't occur to us to ask if he was married. After all, why would a married guy be dating a woman, meeting her friends, etc. They became intimate after maybe 4 or 5 dates (I don't know exactly). Happened at her place.

It turned out that he was married, with a new baby. Wife was home on maternity leave. He wasn't new to town at all, but he was new to his job. His schedule got a lot more complicated when maternity leave was over and my friend got suspicious, started prying, and found out that he was married. She was embarrassed and heartbroken because she really didn't know and really cared about him. No idea what happened to the guy.


Google is your friend.


I'm married, but nothing on Google would indicate as such. People also provide fake nanes. Don't oversimplify. That is an awful situation.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 11:53     Subject: Re:Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:People with good character don't sleep with married men.

Justify it all you want. The other woman lacks integrity and is disrespecting the family just like the husband is.


This is it. It isn't either/or - both shoulder blame. Remember the golden rule.

The Golden Rule is flawed.

There is no question of integrity when no promises have been made. OW doesn't owe you any respect. It is pointless to expect it.


This is incorrect. Marriage is not simply a private institution, it is also a public/civic one. That is why the government recognizes it legally. Indeed, being the OW or OM was traditionally actionable at common law, although that action is largely not viable anymore in the age of no-fault divorce. Still, I think most would agree that people have some level of civic duty not to damage the marriages of others.

I don't understand why it is controversial that both parties in this situation have done something wrong.


Very well said!
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 11:30     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:Susie is on the playground. She asks the teacher for a red ball and skips happily playing with it. The teacher has thousands of balls for the children to play, all shapes and colors, but Debbie sees Susie and takes her red ball. Susie is now crying. Debbie could have seen Teacher to get any ball she wished, even a red one like Susie's, but she took Susie's anyway, without Susie's agreement (agreement = sharing = non-exclusivity)

The lessons we have had since childhood: don't take someone else's ball, get your own ball, and play nice.

Debbie is a b!tch. I hate Debbie.


I like you.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 09:38     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^ PP here. The cheating spouse is never absolved of responsibility. I just think it's tougher to cheat without a willing participant.


Sure, but cheaters also lie. They say they're separated or divorced. I know people (male and female) who have discovered that their boyfriend/girlfriend was married well after the fact.


I would call the supposed ex to verify.


Okay, so you, as a single person, meet a person who asks you on a date. On the basis of that interaction, you agree and you have long conversations with the person about various things. In conversation, they mention that they were married previously but are not married now. You say, oh, that's unfortunate, how long ago was that, what is the name of your ex, I need to call them to make sure you're REALLY divorced.

That's really what you'd do, in that situation?


I would get to know him and his friends first- before any intimacy. If he is dodgy about including me in his life, then that would be a HUGE red flag.


I watched a young woman friend of mine get completely snowed by a guy. We were all snowed, actually. He was new in town and didn't have many friends, according to him. Just colleagues. They met for dates after work. According to him, he lived pretty far out from downtown (Gaithersburg or something, while working on the Hill) and as a result, they didn't go back to his place. He'd come meet her on the weekend downtown. We (her friends) met the guy, who we thought was nice, funny, friendly and really into our friend. Given that he was actively dating our friend, it really didn't occur to us to ask if he was married. After all, why would a married guy be dating a woman, meeting her friends, etc. They became intimate after maybe 4 or 5 dates (I don't know exactly). Happened at her place.

It turned out that he was married, with a new baby. Wife was home on maternity leave. He wasn't new to town at all, but he was new to his job. His schedule got a lot more complicated when maternity leave was over and my friend got suspicious, started prying, and found out that he was married. She was embarrassed and heartbroken because she really didn't know and really cared about him. No idea what happened to the guy.


Then she didn't get to know him before getting intimate and serious with him. As she found out, after she got to know him better- there were red flags. I hope she learned her lesson.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 09:04     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:Wait until it happens to you. No one is letting DH off the hook, but you are delusional if you think the OW gets a free pass.

I think people would like to say this only happens in bad marriages, to the long suffering sex deprived husband. that's not true. In the case of my close friend, the husband was so aroused by his affair partner, they (the married couple) had sex MORE. I've heard other spouses say that having sex with their own spouse felt like cheating on the OW, so intimacy decreased.

If your marriage had problems (all do) an affair will trump those - if you were circling the drain before the affair, the affair will likely be a non-recoverable event.

It's sad. Finish your business before you get involved. It's not that hard.


I think this happens in all kinds of marriages. I personally think that when it happens in marriages that are otherwise healthy (rather than sexless, emotionally closed off ones that are often described on this site), it's more indicative of a personality defect in the cheating spouse. When it's the long suffering sexless marriage, I think it's more likely to be the result of the cheating spouse being deeply unhappy, rather than a sociopath. I also think there is a difference between one emotional/physical affair and a series of one night stands.

But that's just me. I know that others will say "a cheater is a cheater" and respect their feelings. I just think that there are always levels of nuance and it's pretty naive to just label everyone who has ever cheated a sociopath without getting any other details.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 09:02     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
I've known people on all sides of this situation - cheating spouse, non-cheating spouse, kids, OW.

I still put 95-100% of the blame on the cheating spouse.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 08:55     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Wait until it happens to you. No one is letting DH off the hook, but you are delusional if you think the OW gets a free pass.

I think people would like to say this only happens in bad marriages, to the long suffering sex deprived husband. that's not true. In the case of my close friend, the husband was so aroused by his affair partner, they (the married couple) had sex MORE. I've heard other spouses say that having sex with their own spouse felt like cheating on the OW, so intimacy decreased.

If your marriage had problems (all do) an affair will trump those - if you were circling the drain before the affair, the affair will likely be a non-recoverable event.

It's sad. Finish your business before you get involved. It's not that hard.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 06:47     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^ PP here. The cheating spouse is never absolved of responsibility. I just think it's tougher to cheat without a willing participant.


Sure, but cheaters also lie. They say they're separated or divorced. I know people (male and female) who have discovered that their boyfriend/girlfriend was married well after the fact.


I would call the supposed ex to verify.


Or ask for proof. Legal separation or divorce is easy to prove.
Anonymous
Post 03/25/2015 06:43     Subject: Why so much hate for the OW?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:^^ PP here. The cheating spouse is never absolved of responsibility. I just think it's tougher to cheat without a willing participant.


Sure, but cheaters also lie. They say they're separated or divorced. I know people (male and female) who have discovered that their boyfriend/girlfriend was married well after the fact.


I would call the supposed ex to verify.


Okay, so you, as a single person, meet a person who asks you on a date. On the basis of that interaction, you agree and you have long conversations with the person about various things. In conversation, they mention that they were married previously but are not married now. You say, oh, that's unfortunate, how long ago was that, what is the name of your ex, I need to call them to make sure you're REALLY divorced.

That's really what you'd do, in that situation?


I would get to know him and his friends first- before any intimacy. If he is dodgy about including me in his life, then that would be a HUGE red flag.


I watched a young woman friend of mine get completely snowed by a guy. We were all snowed, actually. He was new in town and didn't have many friends, according to him. Just colleagues. They met for dates after work. According to him, he lived pretty far out from downtown (Gaithersburg or something, while working on the Hill) and as a result, they didn't go back to his place. He'd come meet her on the weekend downtown. We (her friends) met the guy, who we thought was nice, funny, friendly and really into our friend. Given that he was actively dating our friend, it really didn't occur to us to ask if he was married. After all, why would a married guy be dating a woman, meeting her friends, etc. They became intimate after maybe 4 or 5 dates (I don't know exactly). Happened at her place.

It turned out that he was married, with a new baby. Wife was home on maternity leave. He wasn't new to town at all, but he was new to his job. His schedule got a lot more complicated when maternity leave was over and my friend got suspicious, started prying, and found out that he was married. She was embarrassed and heartbroken because she really didn't know and really cared about him. No idea what happened to the guy.


Google is your friend.