Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did she see a penis? I am trying to understand her outrage.

So again, what is the point of dividing locker rooms and rest rooms into male/female if there is no problem with seeing someone else's opposite sex private parts? If everyone is minding their own business and not looking with no ill intent, no sexual intent (that would mean gay people would have to use opposite sex locker room) and any emotion at seeing an opposite sex genital is to be ridiculed, then why are we not all changing together?

No one has been able to explain that, and I think that is the core of this controversy

A few things. I'm not sure locker rooms are divided by sex, and not gender. I suppose it depends on the establishment. But I think they're more commonly divided by gender, since I've never been asked about my genitalia before touring any gym (and locker room) before.

Second, your bolded statements contradict each other. Nobody should be looking at anyone, period. If you're offended by what you see (as opposed to what someone is *doing* to you), then the problem is yours to deal with, on your own. Your emotions are yours to deal with. If someone is actively doing something uncomfortable to you, that's different.

I'm a private person, and rarely change in locker rooms. I'm self conscious, and I know that there are other women that stare. It's gross, regardless of whether it's coming from a man or a woman. I don't care what chromosomes they have.

But I use locker rooms to use the bathroom, maybe fix myself up a bit, weigh myself, disrobe my mass amounts of winter gear (but not get naked completely). Because my hangups are mine to deal with, and I don't expect to place the burden on someone else. I know trasngender persons aren't the problem in gyms. Transgender persons are MUCH more likely to be the victim, that to cause harm to someone else.

I try and judge people based on the individuals they are, rather than their genitals, sex, or gender.

But then we are onto a slippery slope where women can't walk around completely naked (another DCUM favorite) in a locker room because it makes someone else uncomfortable? By your logic no one should be doing that. The older lady, for argument sake, has no sexual intent and is in the "correct" locker room. So a transgender male in a women's locker room shouldn't be able to do that?
I actually don't know the answer to this, or the entire debate.

This whole discussion is going too far. This entire political correctness problem the US has is getting out of control. Men's locker rooms are for people of male sex. Women's locker rooms are for people of female sex. A person with a penis does not belong in a women's changing area. I can not believe how this new political correctness all of a sudden trumps everybody elses rights. There need to be neutral/family changing rooms to address this issue. Until then transgender people can at least cover their genitals in opposite sex changing areas. That is not too much to ask. Women will welcome them and at the same time those women will not be confronted with something they should be safe from in women's locker rooms.

The argument of "Why do you look?" is invalid. Males do not belong in female changing rooms. There is nothing more to it than that. I am female. I go to the women's changing rooms because I do not want to change together with men. For what reason does not even matter. The solution to this is not for all women of the world to get used to having to see naked men in their changing rooms. The solution is for EVERYONE to stick to their rights which must lead to sex/gender neutral changing areas which will allow EVERYONE to chose. The only thing you people telling everyone to just not look and deal are doing is giving companies a reason not to accommodate the growing minority of transgender people...

I love it when liberalism cannibalizes womens bathrooms!
Now we really need to focus on the most urgent and pressing inequality of American life. We need to equalize mens lifespans to womens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Lord. What is this world coming to?
We need to be sure that people FEEL good. We need to help people FEEL included. We need to acknowledge the FEELINGS of others.
Damn the FEELINGS of the woman who was shocked to see a man, YES, A MAN, in the woman’s locker room.
Planet Fitness will change its policy when some woman is raped in the locker room by a man posing as a transgender person.

I'm shocked to see someone wear crocs - doesn't give me the right to dictate where they can and cannot go.

If the person isn't harming you (and simply by existing, a transgender person isn't harming you), then you need to get over your weird hangups or make your own changes.

And no, the person was not a man, but a transgender woman. Most educated people know that gender resides in the brain; but dinosaurs generally aren't very bright.

You cannot read someone's mind to know they are transgender. People go by sight especially if a transgender is visually male. Most educated and non-educated people perceive visually. That's a fact.

Who is this "people" you're talking about?

Thankfully, humanity is evolving regarding antiquated ideas about gender and sexuality.

Oh, please. Most women are going to high tail it out of a restroom or changing room if they see a 'man' in there. I would tell my teen girls to get out as quickly as possible as you can't be sure. What? Are they supposed to stop and have a conversation about the evolution of antiquated ideas about gender and sexuality with a strange man in the bathroom?

No. But maybe you could be a parent and talk to them about having greater empathy and understanding.

I think most women - including myself - can distinguish between someone minding their own business, and a creep. And that includes other women in the locker room getting obsessed with the genitals of the people in there.

Honest question - where do you think lesbians should change or go to the bathroom?

This is not about lesbians. It is about a physically appearing man in a women's restroom/changing room. Good for you that you can distinguish between a transgendered male and a man who's intent might be dubious. You are well above the rest of us and have truly evolved. Most women can't. Congratulations for being heads and tails above the rest of us. We bow to you.

Sorry, I'm not understanding you and your obsession with physical appearances. I've known some feminine looking males, and masculine looking females. I'm simply not in the business of checking out people in the locker room - but maybe you are? As long as people are minding their own business, I don't understand the problem. You sound hysterical and paranoid.

New poster here. It's not a paranoia , it is a common sense. If you can quickly distinct transgender from a creep, good for you. I am not so sure if my 16 y.o. Daughter who is changing along in the gym's locker room can make that judgement. And I don't want her to simply ignore a man walking in a women's changing room out of a fear that she can heart his/her feelings.

Anonymous wrote:I have trouble reconciling everyone being ok with a transgender person in the locker room but being pissed if my five year old boy is there with me. There is equal lack of sexual intent. And there have been epic threads on the subject of how terrible it is for moms to bring their young sons with them.
People are ridiculous.

I get what you're saying. Personally, I don't want anyone looking at me in a locker room. Whether it's a transgender woman, or any woman or female, or a 5 year old boy. The difficulty is that most adults or older kids are conditioned to not look at people changing. It's not necessarily about sexual intent, but politeness. And yes, I get that a 5 year old is a kid and they're still figuring out social norms and things. Totally normal. But it's still uncomfortable to have anyone (or any stranger) look at you while you're changing. And I get that most people think "well my kinds don't look." But really, they do. Because kids by nature are very lookylooky curious beings.

Personally, I change at home. But I live 3 blocks from my gym, so it's an easy preference.

I have trouble reconciling everyone being ok with a transgender person in the locker room but being pissed if my five year old boy is there with me. There is equal lack of sexual intent. And there have been epic threads on the subject of how terrible it is for moms to bring their young sons with them.
People are ridiculous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did she see a penis? I am trying to understand her outrage.

So again, what is the point of dividing locker rooms and rest rooms into male/female if there is no problem with seeing someone else's opposite sex private parts? If everyone is minding their own business and not looking with no ill intent, no sexual intent (that would mean gay people would have to use opposite sex locker room) and any emotion at seeing an opposite sex genital is to be ridiculed, then why are we not all changing together?

No one has been able to explain that, and I think that is the core of this controversy

A few things. I'm not sure locker rooms are divided by sex, and not gender. I suppose it depends on the establishment. But I think they're more commonly divided by gender, since I've never been asked about my genitalia before touring any gym (and locker room) before.

Second, your bolded statements contradict each other. Nobody should be looking at anyone, period. If you're offended by what you see (as opposed to what someone is *doing* to you), then the problem is yours to deal with, on your own. Your emotions are yours to deal with. If someone is actively doing something uncomfortable to you, that's different.

I'm a private person, and rarely change in locker rooms. I'm self conscious, and I know that there are other women that stare. It's gross, regardless of whether it's coming from a man or a woman. I don't care what chromosomes they have.

But I use locker rooms to use the bathroom, maybe fix myself up a bit, weigh myself, disrobe my mass amounts of winter gear (but not get naked completely). Because my hangups are mine to deal with, and I don't expect to place the burden on someone else. I know trasngender persons aren't the problem in gyms. Transgender persons are MUCH more likely to be the victim, that to cause harm to someone else.

I try and judge people based on the individuals they are, rather than their genitals, sex, or gender.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did she see a penis? I am trying to understand her outrage.

So again, what is the point of dividing locker rooms and rest rooms into male/female if there is no problem with seeing someone else's opposite sex private parts? If everyone is minding their own business and not looking with no ill intent, no sexual intent (that would mean gay people would have to use opposite sex locker room) and any emotion at seeing an opposite sex genital is to be ridiculed, then why are we not all changing together?

No one has been able to explain that, and I think that is the core of this controversy

Anonymous wrote:Just canceled my Planet Fitness membership. Feels good.

I felt the same way when I left the church

Just canceled my Planet Fitness membership. Feels good.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't about a person's right to be transgender but the right for Planet Fitness to notify its guests that you might share a locker room with a male (or female) who self identifies as a woman/man. I would've been frightened if a man (regardless if he identifies as female) had walked into the locker room while I was undressing.

I would've been frightened too if I had seen a man in the womens locker room. Even a prominent member of the transgender community said "...any facility looking to support the transgender community must have the proper facility so that supporting LGBT rights does not impose upon those who may not have a full understanding of her community. Private showers and changing rooms would go a long way in resolving these issues....."

I agree wholeheartedly. The woman who was dropped from Planet Fitness has rights too.

http://www.wnem.com/story/28278233/planet-fitness-drops-member-after-gender-identity-complaint

I don't think she does. It's a private enterprise, being transgendered isn't a protected class, and businesses only have to make "reasonable" accommodations for protected classes, anyway.

FYI the transgender woman wasn't the one who had her membership terminated - it was the woman who was complaining and constantly gossiping to other members. Which, was the right thing.

There was a better way to deal with this. Instead of complaining to other guests, the 'complaining' woman should have insisted she be provided facilities to protect her rights. Fairness for everyone is the right thing to do.

Or, the complaining, gossiping woman could realize that being ignorant is not a protected class.

Or, the complaining woman should realize that free speech isn't a protected right anymore. Well, at least when you aren't being PC.

You don't understand what free speech is. Or what it's actually free from.

Please enlighten us about free speech.

Not PP, but here goes:


Your right to free speech is a right to freedom from GOVERNMENT interference with your speech. The government can't punish you for speaking and can't pre-approve what you say. You can say what you want when you are in public space, (ie. not on private property) within limits. (Threats, cring "fire" when there is no fire, fighting words, putting someone in fear)

Her freedom of speech wasn't infringed. "Freedom of speech" doesn't mean that a private entity or person has to listen to your speech or allow to speak on their premises. Planet Fitness is a private company. They do not have to accept her as a member or allow her to use their facilities. They are free to decide that they don't like her and terminate their business relationship with her. She is free to take her complaint to the internet or to the public sidewalk or any venue that ISN'T their private property.

Her freedom of speech doesn't trump the company's right to freedom of association.

Good explanation.
How then, can the government compel a flower shop or bakery to provide services for a gay wedding?
Isn’t this a company’s right to a freedom of association?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't about a person's right to be transgender but the right for Planet Fitness to notify its guests that you might share a locker room with a male (or female) who self identifies as a woman/man. I would've been frightened if a man (regardless if he identifies as female) had walked into the locker room while I was undressing.

I would've been frightened too if I had seen a man in the womens locker room. Even a prominent member of the transgender community said "...any facility looking to support the transgender community must have the proper facility so that supporting LGBT rights does not impose upon those who may not have a full understanding of her community. Private showers and changing rooms would go a long way in resolving these issues....."

I agree wholeheartedly. The woman who was dropped from Planet Fitness has rights too.

http://www.wnem.com/story/28278233/planet-fitness-drops-member-after-gender-identity-complaint

I don't think she does. It's a private enterprise, being transgendered isn't a protected class, and businesses only have to make "reasonable" accommodations for protected classes, anyway.

FYI the transgender woman wasn't the one who had her membership terminated - it was the woman who was complaining and constantly gossiping to other members. Which, was the right thing.

There was a better way to deal with this. Instead of complaining to other guests, the 'complaining' woman should have insisted she be provided facilities to protect her rights. Fairness for everyone is the right thing to do.

Or, the complaining, gossiping woman could realize that being ignorant is not a protected class.

Or, the complaining woman should realize that free speech isn't a protected right anymore. Well, at least when you aren't being PC.

You don't understand what free speech is. Or what it's actually free from.

Please enlighten us about free speech.

Not PP, but here goes:


Your right to free speech is a right to freedom from GOVERNMENT interference with your speech. The government can't punish you for speaking and can't pre-approve what you say. You can say what you want when you are in public space, (ie. not on private property) within limits. (Threats, cring "fire" when there is no fire, fighting words, putting someone in fear)

Her freedom of speech wasn't infringed. "Freedom of speech" doesn't mean that a private entity or person has to listen to your speech or allow to speak on their premises. Planet Fitness is a private company. They do not have to accept her as a member or allow her to use their facilities. They are free to decide that they don't like her and terminate their business relationship with her. She is free to take her complaint to the internet or to the public sidewalk or any venue that ISN'T their private property.

Her freedom of speech doesn't trump the company's right to freedom of association.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't about a person's right to be transgender but the right for Planet Fitness to notify its guests that you might share a locker room with a male (or female) who self identifies as a woman/man. I would've been frightened if a man (regardless if he identifies as female) had walked into the locker room while I was undressing.

I would've been frightened too if I had seen a man in the womens locker room. Even a prominent member of the transgender community said "...any facility looking to support the transgender community must have the proper facility so that supporting LGBT rights does not impose upon those who may not have a full understanding of her community. Private showers and changing rooms would go a long way in resolving these issues....."

I agree wholeheartedly. The woman who was dropped from Planet Fitness has rights too.

http://www.wnem.com/story/28278233/planet-fitness-drops-member-after-gender-identity-complaint

I don't think she does. It's a private enterprise, being transgendered isn't a protected class, and businesses only have to make "reasonable" accommodations for protected classes, anyway.

FYI the transgender woman wasn't the one who had her membership terminated - it was the woman who was complaining and constantly gossiping to other members. Which, was the right thing.

There was a better way to deal with this. Instead of complaining to other guests, the 'complaining' woman should have insisted she be provided facilities to protect her rights. Fairness for everyone is the right thing to do.

Or, the complaining, gossiping woman could realize that being ignorant is not a protected class.

Or, the complaining woman should realize that free speech isn't a protected right anymore. Well, at least when you aren't being PC.

I'm not sure you understand what "free speech" is. There has never been a right to unrestricted freedom of speech in America, let alone freedom from consequence. I feel sad for how ignorant many Americans are.

And yes, Planet Fitness did the right thing. If there were one near me, I'd switch memberships right away. I'm female, I go to them pretty much every single day. I don't stare at people in the locker rooms, and thankfully people generally mind their own business. Where are the throngs of transgender persons doing dangerous things in locker rooms?

There is reasonable fear, and then there is the "fear of fear" - which is what's driving any weird, unsubstantiated concern about transgender persons in bathrooms/locker rooms.

You have the right to your fear, however irrational. You do not have the right to make others adapt to your irrational fears.

But by all means, find another gym.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't about a person's right to be transgender but the right for Planet Fitness to notify its guests that you might share a locker room with a male (or female) who self identifies as a woman/man. I would've been frightened if a man (regardless if he identifies as female) had walked into the locker room while I was undressing.

I would've been frightened too if I had seen a man in the womens locker room. Even a prominent member of the transgender community said "...any facility looking to support the transgender community must have the proper facility so that supporting LGBT rights does not impose upon those who may not have a full understanding of her community. Private showers and changing rooms would go a long way in resolving these issues....."

I agree wholeheartedly. The woman who was dropped from Planet Fitness has rights too.

http://www.wnem.com/story/28278233/planet-fitness-drops-member-after-gender-identity-complaint

I don't think she does. It's a private enterprise, being transgendered isn't a protected class, and businesses only have to make "reasonable" accommodations for protected classes, anyway.

FYI the transgender woman wasn't the one who had her membership terminated - it was the woman who was complaining and constantly gossiping to other members. Which, was the right thing.

There was a better way to deal with this. Instead of complaining to other guests, the 'complaining' woman should have insisted she be provided facilities to protect her rights. Fairness for everyone is the right thing to do.

Or, the complaining, gossiping woman could realize that being ignorant is not a protected class.

Or, the complaining woman should realize that free speech isn't a protected right anymore. Well, at least when you aren't being PC.

You don't understand what free speech is. Or what it's actually free from.

Please enlighten us about free speech.

The government does not restrict her right to say as she pleases. She's not going to jail for her opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This isn't about a person's right to be transgender but the right for Planet Fitness to notify its guests that you might share a locker room with a male (or female) who self identifies as a woman/man. I would've been frightened if a man (regardless if he identifies as female) had walked into the locker room while I was undressing.

I would've been frightened too if I had seen a man in the womens locker room. Even a prominent member of the transgender community said "...any facility looking to support the transgender community must have the proper facility so that supporting LGBT rights does not impose upon those who may not have a full understanding of her community. Private showers and changing rooms would go a long way in resolving these issues....."

I agree wholeheartedly. The woman who was dropped from Planet Fitness has rights too.

http://www.wnem.com/story/28278233/planet-fitness-drops-member-after-gender-identity-complaint

I don't think she does. It's a private enterprise, being transgendered isn't a protected class, and businesses only have to make "reasonable" accommodations for protected classes, anyway.

FYI the transgender woman wasn't the one who had her membership terminated - it was the woman who was complaining and constantly gossiping to other members. Which, was the right thing.

There was a better way to deal with this. Instead of complaining to other guests, the 'complaining' woman should have insisted she be provided facilities to protect her rights. Fairness for everyone is the right thing to do.

Or, the complaining, gossiping woman could realize that being ignorant is not a protected class.

Or, the complaining woman should realize that free speech isn't a protected right anymore. Well, at least when you aren't being PC.

You don't understand what free speech is. Or what it's actually free from.

Please enlighten us about free speech.