Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- I just want to say hats off to you for being a loving, supportive husband. Your wife is very luck to have your support.

I've been in your wife's shoes for years now. The only difference is while moving past my own feeling of inadequacies is hard enough, my husband is not supportive at all. He's quite the opposite. I won't go in to details, but just reading your post about wanting to support your wife and help her feel good about herself again brings tears to my eyes. You're a good man.

PP, going back to work changed my marriage for the better--drastically. The OP is indeed a very supportive husband, but you don't need YOUR DH to take the lead on your job search. Just do it.

While noted, that is not the point of the post, at all. Of course she can and should take the lead on her job search. It would, however, be nice to have a supportive husband. Kudos to the OP although that is really the kind of support every partner in a marriage should receive.

Anonymous wrote:OP- I just want to say hats off to you for being a loving, supportive husband. Your wife is very luck to have your support.

I've been in your wife's shoes for years now. The only difference is while moving past my own feeling of inadequacies is hard enough, my husband is not supportive at all. He's quite the opposite. I won't go in to details, but just reading your post about wanting to support your wife and help her feel good about herself again brings tears to my eyes. You're a good man.

PP, going back to work changed my marriage for the better--drastically. The OP is indeed a very supportive husband, but you don't need YOUR DH to take the lead on your job search. Just do it.

OP- I just want to say hats off to you for being a loving, supportive husband. Your wife is very luck to have your support.

I've been in your wife's shoes for years now. The only difference is while moving past my own feeling of inadequacies is hard enough, my husband is not supportive at all. He's quite the opposite. I won't go in to details, but just reading your post about wanting to support your wife and help her feel good about herself again brings tears to my eyes. You're a good man.

This is an example of something that you should consider working on as far as taking things too personally. It is ok to experience PTAs as nonsense and it is ok that other people disagree and have different experiences. It is not a personal slam. It has nothing to do with you. I now WOH. If a SAHM said that she didn't want to have a lot to do with the empty rat race nonsense, that's not a slam at me. I don't find my job empty rat race nonsense. But it could have been her experience and that's okay too. It is not personal.

So much this. I am the special education teacher who didn't mean to offend. the PTO was nonsense for ME. It was not a good fit. Also not a good fit? Unstructured time, a lack of adult connection, a lack of learning new things and applying them in a meaningful way (I felt like being a SAHM was less a job and more a never ending weekend. Weekends are nice, but not a life for ME.

It was difficult because like that sad woman, my life was cake. I even had help! I just slowly felt myself turning into someone I didn't like, someone my husband shouldn't respect (because I didn't) and someone who was losing her life. It was all slipping away from me. And that turned me into the crying woman at morning yoga.

I made the hard changes and it was the best situation for ME. But privately, many, many women have confided in me that they wished they were strong enough, brave enough to start all over in a new career but it was just too hard. These were smart women, women who could do it but were paralyzed by pride. They are the unhappy ones and the ones suffering like that sad woman. And I don't know, but looking at my own life, I saw its demise if I didn't make a change. My DH was slowly checking out because I was a wreck who had absolutely no reason to be that way beyond my own choosing. He didn't make me SAHM. He contributed to the running of our home. We had help and I still was a mess. Looking back, he was a saint for putting up with me and being patient and providing for us because I wasn't able to be 100 present. And that is all we can ask of ourselves. Are we present? Because if we aren't, SAHM WOHM, then maybe a change is in order.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think the PP is a troll. She could have been me, if my current employer hadn't given me a chance. I, too, was humiliated by working moms during several interviews. I took 5 years off and they looked at me like I was a lazy ball of nothingness. It was hard. HARD. To keep looking for a job, but I was close to giving up because my ego could not take it anymore. I am triple Ivy educated. I worked in biglaw and made a ton of money in a prior life. Now, I am making a third of what I made out of law school and my boss is 10 years younger (!!!) than me. Every day, I struggle with my ego. Every day, I have to watch the tone in my voice when my supervisors talk to me. My ego is my biggest problem right now. I fully recognize that. So, PP, I know how it can be paralyzing. I've wanted to quit my job many times based on my ego being bruised - not actual "real world" slights. It has been tough.

But I stick it out because I am lucky to be doing good work. And there is SO MUCH for me to learn in this industry. My first step is recognizing that I *am* a newbie, I do not know much (the law significantly changed while I was at home).

My mother has told me a million times that the one lesson she wants me to learn and remember when she is gone is to learn to be humble. I struggle with it daily.

I am doing good work and find a lot of satisfaction in my work (my kid is in school fulltime now), so I have the time and education and willingness to do so much more with my life. I am just struggling with being on the bottom rung. It really bothers me and I just need to get over myself.

So, PP, long winded story short. I understand. I feel you. You are me in a different life. I hope (and pray) you find the strength to humble yourself to find your calling.

I know re-finding my professional self has been good for my marriage since my DH knows me well and knows how much pride I take in doing this work.

Good luck, PP. Many hugs.

Another vote for real person. This could have been me! I had a hell of a time getting back into working. I applied to so, so many jobs and got nothing. I kept going, but it was because my DH was supportive and I really wanted to do something with my life beyond PTA nonsense. I ended up going back to get a master's in special education and became a teacher (I worked in consulting with tons of travel before, which was the reason I quit.). I absolutely love my job and fulfilled and am lucky. But I took a big ego hit from going to being an efficiency expert basically to working in a population that by definition struggles to meet the baseline of development. But it has been a humbling lesson. I am awed by my co-workers, principal and parents/students. I learned a lot about myself and really pushed beyond being that woman at yoga at 10 with the kids in school and nothing to do (well, I was that woman. I was that woman crying after because she knew deep, deep down inside she wasn't making the right choice).

So, to OP. encourage your wife to expand her career options. And keep your ego in check. Breaking back in after being home may require taking a hit. It may require starting over. But if it is what you want, fight for it. Don't settle, like the PP.

I respect that being at home wasn't the right choice for you, but why the disdain for others who choose to SAH and are at peace with their choice? "PTA nonsense"??

This is an example of something that you should consider working on as far as taking things too personally. It is ok to experience PTAs as nonsense and it is ok that other people disagree and have different experiences. It is not a personal slam. It has nothing to do with you. I now WOH. If a SAHM said that she didn't want to have a lot to do with the empty rat race nonsense, that's not a slam at me. I don't find my job empty rat race nonsense. But it could have been her experience and that's okay too. It is not personal.

Getting back to OP: When I was a SAHM, I noticed that I was starting to take comments too personally (kind of like this PP above, but I don't think this is a universal SAHM characteristic). For me, one of the benefits of workplaces is that adults push back on you in a way that didn't happen the same way to me when I was SAH. My own SAHM struggled with this when I was a teenager; she had a tendency to cry and take things really personally in a way that as an adult I recognize was inappropriate and it was confusing and hard to deal with. I don't think this fragile emotional state is universal to SAH but something I probably had a tendency to given my family history.

It's uncomfortable getting used to pushback, rejection, and making mistakes. I don't think I'm excellent at it now, but I'm better than I was. This is going to stretch your wife's comfort zone, and I think it's something she'll have to proactively recognize and work on during the process. She can do it. For me, it was a positive development and I'm glad I worked on it - not just for work but so that my kids don't have the experience I did with my emotionally fragile mother. However, she might benefit from talking with a therapist who can specifically work on fears of rejection and mistakes and also how to handle direct disagreement. That ability to handle rejection and challenges won't just be good for work, it's also good for dealing with teenagers when they're trying to figure out who they are. I remember being so jealous of some of my friend's moms who just weren't so emotionally fragile the way my mom was. If she is emotionally fragile, perhaps you could point out that getting a bit more emotional strength and resilience isn't just good for the workplace, it's good for life in general.

Anonymous wrote:Let me clarify. My ego admittedly keeps me from taking something below what I think I'm worth and the few low level jobs I've failed to land despite my "impressive" CV. It's a failure when you try to volunteer and end up getting radio silence. But it's stings when you clearly have the skills (or had the skills).

Faced with this uphill battle, I chose the path of least resistance. We have money thanks to my DH's salary. So, it's just easier to move more slowly in the morning. Focus on the Children. Keeping my home lovely. Cooking. Working out. But it's banal and I realize how little I am truly achieving.

My mother is probably the only person in the world who sees through my act. She knows there's more to me. To avoid her disappointment, I have avoided her beyond a real superficial level. Because she would look at my lovely home, and nice kids, and gorgeous garden, and beautiful meal and just say...is that all there is here for you?

PP, you are depressed and have low self-esteem. Working would change that. Please just take any decent job, even if it's below your level.
Also, think of this: what happens if your husband divorces you? What are you going to live off? You may get little or no alimony due to your qualifications.

Cheer up and get out there!

OP, I'll be blunt. Your wife is going to have to lose the fragile-flower attitude if she wants to make it in today's workplace.

Since you aren't hurting financially, she has the luxury of being rejected and moving on to the next opportunity. That alone should give her some peace of mind.

Anonymous wrote:My wife has reached a point where she doesn't believe being a SAHM spouse is a good fit for her or our family. I totally agree with this, but the issue is how to I support my wife's efforts to get back to work?

She is totally unsure of what she wants, has a PhD but doesn't want to do academia (it's a social sciencey degree) and basically freaks out when I try to encourage her to get out there. She assumes every silence after an application means she will never, ever find work, gets disenchanted and gives up. Only to come around and realize that being a SAHM is not fulfilling enough and begins to make baby steps.

Our personalities are really different, here. I am a bit more aggressive and hustle. I'm not brilliant by any means, but have done well for myself by working hard and not taking no for an answer. My wife is brilliant. Literally. But she has a hard time with failure, and has never had to push past a wall to achieve anything. I find the things that motivate me (like a swift kick in the rear) are the absolute worst approaches to take here. So, I am dealing with kid gloves.

I want to be supportive, but I'm not sure exactly what the right tack to take is. Does anyone recommend a career coach or book that might be helpful?

You certainly married a winner.

not helpful, I know . . . But it's the truth.

She needs to stay home. What employer would deal with that type of personality?

OP it's awesome you are working to be supportive. I think you've gotten some great tips, but you said your wife "has never had to push past a wall to achieve anything." That's the part that you won't be able to help her with. You have to struggle to some extent to grow. It's just how it is. So maybe this is your wife's struggle, if other things have come easy.

As we all know, sometimes you have to suck it up and accept some trade offs. Everyone wants the fulfilling, flexible, great fit job with great balance doing what we love. It takes some trade offs and patience to get there. It sounds like your wife is afraid of being uncomfortable, which is totally normal and human. It's going to be a big change to commit to a job. For me, the biggest way my husband helps/supports me now and before returning to the workforce, was committing to being a partner in child-raising and house management. If she returns to work you will have to make sacrifices too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think the PP is a troll. She could have been me, if my current employer hadn't given me a chance. I, too, was humiliated by working moms during several interviews. I took 5 years off and they looked at me like I was a lazy ball of nothingness. It was hard. HARD. To keep looking for a job, but I was close to giving up because my ego could not take it anymore. I am triple Ivy educated. I worked in biglaw and made a ton of money in a prior life. Now, I am making a third of what I made out of law school and my boss is 10 years younger (!!!) than me. Every day, I struggle with my ego. Every day, I have to watch the tone in my voice when my supervisors talk to me. My ego is my biggest problem right now. I fully recognize that. So, PP, I know how it can be paralyzing. I've wanted to quit my job many times based on my ego being bruised - not actual "real world" slights. It has been tough.

But I stick it out because I am lucky to be doing good work. And there is SO MUCH for me to learn in this industry. My first step is recognizing that I *am* a newbie, I do not know much (the law significantly changed while I was at home).

My mother has told me a million times that the one lesson she wants me to learn and remember when she is gone is to learn to be humble. I struggle with it daily.

I am doing good work and find a lot of satisfaction in my work (my kid is in school fulltime now), so I have the time and education and willingness to do so much more with my life. I am just struggling with being on the bottom rung. It really bothers me and I just need to get over myself.

So, PP, long winded story short. I understand. I feel you. You are me in a different life. I hope (and pray) you find the strength to humble yourself to find your calling.

I know re-finding my professional self has been good for my marriage since my DH knows me well and knows how much pride I take in doing this work.

Good luck, PP. Many hugs.

Another vote for real person. This could have been me! I had a hell of a time getting back into working. I applied to so, so many jobs and got nothing. I kept going, but it was because my DH was supportive and I really wanted to do something with my life beyond PTA nonsense. I ended up going back to get a master's in special education and became a teacher (I worked in consulting with tons of travel before, which was the reason I quit.). I absolutely love my job and fulfilled and am lucky. But I took a big ego hit from going to being an efficiency expert basically to working in a population that by definition struggles to meet the baseline of development. But it has been a humbling lesson. I am awed by my co-workers, principal and parents/students. I learned a lot about myself and really pushed beyond being that woman at yoga at 10 with the kids in school and nothing to do (well, I was that woman. I was that woman crying after because she knew deep, deep down inside she wasn't making the right choice).

So, to OP. encourage your wife to expand her career options. And keep your ego in check. Breaking back in after being home may require taking a hit. It may require starting over. But if it is what you want, fight for it. Don't settle, like the PP.

I respect that being at home wasn't the right choice for you, but why the disdain for others who choose to SAH and are at peace with their choice? "PTA nonsense"??

She's talking about how she felt. Stop being so defensive.

Anonymous wrote:

I don't think the PP is a troll. She could have been me, if my current employer hadn't given me a chance. I, too, was humiliated by working moms during several interviews. I took 5 years off and they looked at me like I was a lazy ball of nothingness. It was hard. HARD. To keep looking for a job, but I was close to giving up because my ego could not take it anymore. I am triple Ivy educated. I worked in biglaw and made a ton of money in a prior life. Now, I am making a third of what I made out of law school and my boss is 10 years younger (!!!) than me. Every day, I struggle with my ego. Every day, I have to watch the tone in my voice when my supervisors talk to me. My ego is my biggest problem right now. I fully recognize that. So, PP, I know how it can be paralyzing. I've wanted to quit my job many times based on my ego being bruised - not actual "real world" slights. It has been tough.

But I stick it out because I am lucky to be doing good work. And there is SO MUCH for me to learn in this industry. My first step is recognizing that I *am* a newbie, I do not know much (the law significantly changed while I was at home).

My mother has told me a million times that the one lesson she wants me to learn and remember when she is gone is to learn to be humble. I struggle with it daily.

I am doing good work and find a lot of satisfaction in my work (my kid is in school fulltime now), so I have the time and education and willingness to do so much more with my life. I am just struggling with being on the bottom rung. It really bothers me and I just need to get over myself.

So, PP, long winded story short. I understand. I feel you. You are me in a different life. I hope (and pray) you find the strength to humble yourself to find your calling.

I know re-finding my professional self has been good for my marriage since my DH knows me well and knows how much pride I take in doing this work.

Good luck, PP. Many hugs.

Another vote for real person. This could have been me! I had a hell of a time getting back into working. I applied to so, so many jobs and got nothing. I kept going, but it was because my DH was supportive and I really wanted to do something with my life beyond PTA nonsense. I ended up going back to get a master's in special education and became a teacher (I worked in consulting with tons of travel before, which was the reason I quit.). I absolutely love my job and fulfilled and am lucky. But I took a big ego hit from going to being an efficiency expert basically to working in a population that by definition struggles to meet the baseline of development. But it has been a humbling lesson. I am awed by my co-workers, principal and parents/students. I learned a lot about myself and really pushed beyond being that woman at yoga at 10 with the kids in school and nothing to do (well, I was that woman. I was that woman crying after because she knew deep, deep down inside she wasn't making the right choice).

So, to OP. encourage your wife to expand her career options. And keep your ego in check. Breaking back in after being home may require taking a hit. It may require starting over. But if it is what you want, fight for it. Don't settle, like the PP.

I respect that being at home wasn't the right choice for you, but why the disdain for others who choose to SAH and are at peace with their choice? "PTA nonsense"??

Anonymous wrote:Let me clarify. My ego admittedly keeps me from taking something below what I think I'm worth and the few low level jobs I've failed to land despite my "impressive" CV. It's a failure when you try to volunteer and end up getting radio silence. But it's stings when you clearly have the skills (or had the skills).

Faced with this uphill battle, I chose the path of least resistance. We have money thanks to my DH's salary. So, it's just easier to move more slowly in the morning. Focus on the Children. Keeping my home lovely. Cooking. Working out. But it's banal and I realize how little I am truly achieving.

My mother is probably the only person in the world who sees through my act. She knows there's more to me. To avoid her disappointment, I have avoided her beyond a real superficial level. Because she would look at my lovely home, and nice kids, and gorgeous garden, and beautiful meal and just say...is that all there is here for you?

You make your life so much more angst-ridden than it needs to be. Perhaps you are carrying your mother's critical voice within you at all times but you really need to take it easy on yourself, sheesh.

PP, that is so spot on. I don't think that woman was a troll. I wish she was because it is just so, so sad to think.

PP isn't a troll. You can find similar sentiments expressed by people who aren't anonymous, I just saw this Quora answer but there are others:

http://www.quora.com/How-can-I-convince-my-wife-to-leave-her-job-to-raise-our-child/answer/Agnes-Martinez?srid=pTIz&share=1

It's insulting to PP's valid feelings to call her a troll. Why would you assume such a thing? Do you assume SAHMs who are really genuinely happy at home are also trolls? SAHMs and WOHMs aren't monoliths, people's feelings can vary. It does nobody any good to assume that we all feel exactly the same way in the same circumstances.

There have been a ton of good advice, but one thing I didn't see is to suggest to her that she actively work on assuming positive or neutral intent from other people as she goes through this process, since she is so rejection-adverse. For instance, when she goes to talk to somebody, she should work on telling herself ahead of time that if she hears something she doesn't like, it's not personal. Most rejections in life aren't personal even if they feel personal. Interviewers have to ask about resume gaps and while some might be unkind, most are probably just trying to get the facts out as soon as possible. There's no sense in assuming that interviewers are actively trying to belittle people. And people sometimes don't know what to say, and say awkward things -- give them the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, it will be hard if not impossible to go forward, because you'll take every rejection just so personally, even if it's not meant that way (and it almost certainly isn't). Most people are just trying to get through their day and sometimes they're not going to say the right thing at just the right time. If she hears something she wants to take personally, she should think about a) whether there is any good advice in there even if it's hard to hear and b) actively work to understand that people don't always say the right thing at the right time and c) if it hurts, forgive it and move on.

OP, you seem like a very good person.

I don't think the PP is a troll. She could have been me, if my current employer hadn't given me a chance. I, too, was humiliated by working moms during several interviews. I took 5 years off and they looked at me like I was a lazy ball of nothingness. It was hard. HARD. To keep looking for a job, but I was close to giving up because my ego could not take it anymore. I am triple Ivy educated. I worked in biglaw and made a ton of money in a prior life. Now, I am making a third of what I made out of law school and my boss is 10 years younger (!!!) than me. Every day, I struggle with my ego. Every day, I have to watch the tone in my voice when my supervisors talk to me. My ego is my biggest problem right now. I fully recognize that. So, PP, I know how it can be paralyzing. I've wanted to quit my job many times based on my ego being bruised - not actual "real world" slights. It has been tough.

But I stick it out because I am lucky to be doing good work. And there is SO MUCH for me to learn in this industry. My first step is recognizing that I *am* a newbie, I do not know much (the law significantly changed while I was at home).

My mother has told me a million times that the one lesson she wants me to learn and remember when she is gone is to learn to be humble. I struggle with it daily.

I am doing good work and find a lot of satisfaction in my work (my kid is in school fulltime now), so I have the time and education and willingness to do so much more with my life. I am just struggling with being on the bottom rung. It really bothers me and I just need to get over myself.

So, PP, long winded story short. I understand. I feel you. You are me in a different life. I hope (and pray) you find the strength to humble yourself to find your calling.

I know re-finding my professional self has been good for my marriage since my DH knows me well and knows how much pride I take in doing this work.

Good luck, PP. Many hugs.

Another vote for real person. This could have been me! I had a hell of a time getting back into working. I applied to so, so many jobs and got nothing. I kept going, but it was because my DH was supportive and I really wanted to do something with my life beyond PTA nonsense. I ended up going back to get a master's in special education and became a teacher (I worked in consulting with tons of travel before, which was the reason I quit.). I absolutely love my job and fulfilled and am lucky. But I took a big ego hit from going to being an efficiency expert basically to working in a population that by definition struggles to meet the baseline of development. But it has been a humbling lesson. I am awed by my co-workers, principal and parents/students. I learned a lot about myself and really pushed beyond being that woman at yoga at 10 with the kids in school and nothing to do (well, I was that woman. I was that woman crying after because she knew deep, deep down inside she wasn't making the right choice).

So, to OP. encourage your wife to expand her career options. And keep your ego in check. Breaking back in after being home may require taking a hit. It may require starting over. But if it is what you want, fight for it. Don't settle, like the PP.