Once I tested a girl from Finland (English proficiency test). She was 13 years old (this was about 2 years ago). I had a conversation with her before we started. I asked her how her grades were in her previous school. She gave me sort of a weird look and said, "I don't know. That is for my parents and my teachers to discuss. The teachers write about us (I assume something like an analysis in the form of a narrative) and then the parents go to a discussion with the teacher. There are no grades as we know them.

I certainly don't know anything about Finland, but this sounds VERY different from our system and it does not sound very "centralized".

Anonymous wrote:

Don't think they have standards aligned with Common Core K standards, though. Looks like they save learning to read and do serious math for school.


No, I don't think that's accurate. You can find the current core curriculum for pre-school education here:

http://www.oph.fi/download/153504_national_core_cu...pre-primary_education_2010.pdf

They're supposed to have a new core curriculum in 2016.

(Hooray for the Finns, for translating all this into English.)

Did you read it? It is nothing like Common Core. Instead of cookie cutter standards, the emphasis appears to be on individual child development. Lots of social issues brought up as well--including the home/school relationship.

The question wasn't whether their preschool core curriculum is like the Common Core standards. The question was whether their preschool curriculum includes learning to read and "serious" math. Which I think it seems to.

Don't think they have standards aligned with Common Core K standards, though. Looks like they save learning to read and do serious math for school.


No, I don't think that's accurate. You can find the current core curriculum for pre-school education here:

http://www.oph.fi/download/153504_national_core_cu...pre-primary_education_2010.pdf

They're supposed to have a new core curriculum in 2016.

(Hooray for the Finns, for translating all this into English.)

Did you read it? It is nothing like Common Core. Instead of cookie cutter standards, the emphasis appears to be on individual child development. Lots of social issues brought up as well--including the home/school relationship.

Anonymous wrote:

The "don't start until 7" part is misleading, though. Finland has a universal preschool program; over 97% of 3-to-6-year-olds attend; and the preschool curriculum is aligned with the school curriculum.

Don't think they have standards aligned with Common Core K standards, though. Looks like they save learning to read and do serious math for school.

No, I don't think that's accurate. You can find the current core curriculum for pre-school education here:

http://www.oph.fi/download/153504_national_core_curriculum_for_pre-primary_education_2010.pdf

They're supposed to have a new core curriculum in 2016.

(Hooray for the Finns, for translating all this into English.)

The "don't start until 7" part is misleading, though. Finland has a universal preschool program; over 97% of 3-to-6-year-olds attend; and the preschool curriculum is aligned with the school curriculum.

Don't think they have standards aligned with Common Core K standards, though. Looks like they save learning to read and do serious math for school.

Anonymous wrote:http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/?no-ist=&no-cache=&fb_locale=zh_tw&page=1

Interesting article. Kids don't start until 7. Few standardized tests. Teachers are free to be creative. And, actually, there is LESS centralized control.

The "don't start until 7" part is misleading, though. Finland has a universal preschool program; over 97% of 3-to-6-year-olds attend; and the preschool curriculum is aligned with the school curriculum.

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/08/287255411/what-the-u-s-can-learn-from-finland-where-school-starts-at-age-7

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/why-are-finlands-schools-successful-49859555/?no-ist=&no-cache=&fb_locale=zh_tw&page=1

Interesting article. Kids don't start until 7. Few standardized tests. Teachers are free to be creative. And, actually, there is LESS centralized control.

Aren't places like Finland much more centralized than ours?

Finland has a much smaller population than Virginia. I imagine it is about the same as NOVA.

Anonymous wrote:

But my parents were teachers, and I know a lot of administrators at the district office, and let me tell you local control is worthless. It's fine if you are in a rich county like MCPS where you have educated parents holding the system to account. But the rampant nepotism, the coaches/principals that are rampant, the favoritism, and old boy network is rampant as part of local schools. I don't see anything close to that level of incompetence and corruption at the Fed level.

You think this doesn't go on in federal government? It does. And, I'm not just talking about the appointment of ambassadors who know nothing about the country to which they are sent.

Obviously the answer is to get the government out of our public schools.

But my parents were teachers, and I know a lot of administrators at the district office, and let me tell you local control is worthless. It's fine if you are in a rich county like MCPS where you have educated parents holding the system to account. But the rampant nepotism, the coaches/principals that are rampant, the favoritism, and old boy network is rampant as part of local schools. I don't see anything close to that level of incompetence and corruption at the Fed level.

You think this doesn't go on in federal government? It does. And, I'm not just talking about the appointment of ambassadors who know nothing about the country to which they are sent.

Anonymous wrote:

they are certainly part of the solution.

No. They are part of the problem. It's making it worse and causing schools/administrators/teachers/parents to game the system.

Yes tests and standards create incentives which can lead to unproductive programs.

But my parents were teachers, and I know a lot of administrators at the district office, and let me tell you local control is worthless. It's fine if you are in a rich county like MCPS where you have educated parents holding the system to account. But the rampant nepotism, the coaches/principals that are rampant, the favoritism, and old boy network is rampant as part of local schools. I don't see anything close to that level of incompetence and corruption at the Fed level.

I will say that nationalized Federal education might have better results. Aren't places like Finland much more centralized than ours?

This passage from the article is telling:


John Ewing, who served as the executive director of the American Mathematical Society for fifteen years, told me that he is perplexed by educators’ ”infatuation with data,” their faith that it is more authoritative than using their own judgment. He explains the problem in terms of Campbell’s law, a principle that describes the risks of using a single indicator to measure complex social phenomena: the greater the value placed on a quantitative measure, like test scores, the more likely it is that the people using it and the process it measures will be corrupted. “The end goal of education isn’t to get students to answer the right number of questions,” he said. “The goal is to have curious and creative students who can function in life.” In a 2011 paper in Notices of the American Mathematical Society, he warned that policymakers were using mathematics “to intimidate—to preëmpt debate about the goals of education and measures of success.”

This article in the New Yorker this summer was a classic case study in where the NCLB system of consequences leads: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/07/21/wrong-answer

Sad. Back in the day, I knew a teacher who lied about test scores and helped the kids just for her ego sake. Cannot imagine what it is like today.

This article in the New Yorker this summer was a classic case study in where the NCLB system of consequences leads: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/07/21/wrong-answer

^ I can see how that is part of gaming the system.