Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 14:18     Subject: Why believe in god?
OP here. Jesus is not the first story of the son of a god, born on Dec 25th, of a virgin, and resurrected in the spring. Understanding these aspects of religious history, how is it possible to truly believe one story and not another? Do those of you who believe have any knowledge of religious history or do you prefer to blind yourself to these realities?
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 14:14     Subject: Why believe in god?
jsteele wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What happened to all the jpegs? 13:32 complained?


The images were disruptive to the discussion. In one of your posts, you stated that you were only having fun with the troll. Apparently, you do not understand that "only having fun" with another poster is itself trolling. So, please participate in the discussion in a serious manner, or opt-out.


The troll was not having a "discussion in a serious manner." So I guess I'm not understanding why trolls need to be protected instead of deleted. Maybe because they're atheist trolls. But whatever.
jsteele
Post 12/16/2014 14:04     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:What happened to all the jpegs? 13:32 complained?


The images were disruptive to the discussion. In one of your posts, you stated that you were only having fun with the troll. Apparently, you do not understand that "only having fun" with another poster is itself trolling. So, please participate in the discussion in a serious manner, or opt-out.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 14:01     Subject: Why believe in god?
What happened to all the jpegs? 13:32 complained?
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:59     Subject: Why believe in god?
13:22 are you still here?
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:40     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think people believe in God as part tradition and part hope. I would not want to be the one to tell someone that lost a child that their child is not waiting for them with Jesus. Religion is a coping mechanism that works pretty darn well for many people.

I'm not a joiner myself, so I don't really get the value of a religion specifically, and I don't mind taking responsibility for my life and my actions. I also don't need to believe that everyone will get their just desserts, because I am not a child anymore.

I don't understand why self-professed atheists sound so angry though. If it doesn't work for you, and it works for someone else, fine. As long as they don't try to indoctrinate my children, and don't force me to pretend to believe what they do, I just don't see the harm.


The harm is that the misinformation and misbelief continues into the next generation, and some of those people might force you to pretend to believe. also, a new generation of kids is indoctrinated into false and sometimes scary beliefs that cause them to suffer until they grow up and can discard the false beliefs given to them by their parents - the way some many people are doing now. Why actively perpetuate something like this? If some people are naturally drawn to faith and others are not, then all children should be taught that and then make a choice to believe or not, instead of being frightened (or comforted) by religion when they are little children, only to question what they learned once they are adults, capable of knowing their own minds.


I'd also like to point out that the PP that you are responding to has a very limited understanding of Christian theology (assuming that is the basis of his/her argument), which does not suggest that we don't have responsibility for our own life and actions - quite the opposite. And Christianity is not about karma or retribution, as the "just desserts" comment alludes to.


Really? You blasted PP#1, who is somewhat sympathetic to you? And instead of having one of your "constructive dialogues" with PP#2, who let's face it isn't making complete sense here, instead you joined with PP#2 to pile on PP#1?

Thanks for playing, PP#1.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:32     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think people believe in God as part tradition and part hope. I would not want to be the one to tell someone that lost a child that their child is not waiting for them with Jesus. Religion is a coping mechanism that works pretty darn well for many people.

I'm not a joiner myself, so I don't really get the value of a religion specifically, and I don't mind taking responsibility for my life and my actions. I also don't need to believe that everyone will get their just desserts, because I am not a child anymore.

I don't understand why self-professed atheists sound so angry though. If it doesn't work for you, and it works for someone else, fine. As long as they don't try to indoctrinate my children, and don't force me to pretend to believe what they do, I just don't see the harm.


The harm is that the misinformation and misbelief continues into the next generation, and some of those people might force you to pretend to believe. also, a new generation of kids is indoctrinated into false and sometimes scary beliefs that cause them to suffer until they grow up and can discard the false beliefs given to them by their parents - the way some many people are doing now. Why actively perpetuate something like this? If some people are naturally drawn to faith and others are not, then all children should be taught that and then make a choice to believe or not, instead of being frightened (or comforted) by religion when they are little children, only to question what they learned once they are adults, capable of knowing their own minds.


I'd also like to point out that the PP that you are responding to has a very limited understanding of Christian theology (assuming that is the basis of his/her argument), which does not suggest that we don't have responsibility for our own life and actions - quite the opposite. And Christianity is not about karma or retribution, as the "just desserts" comment alludes to.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:29     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think people believe in God as part tradition and part hope. I would not want to be the one to tell someone that lost a child that their child is not waiting for them with Jesus. Religion is a coping mechanism that works pretty darn well for many people.

I'm not a joiner myself, so I don't really get the value of a religion specifically, and I don't mind taking responsibility for my life and my actions. I also don't need to believe that everyone will get their just desserts, because I am not a child anymore.

I don't understand why self-professed atheists sound so angry though. If it doesn't work for you, and it works for someone else, fine. As long as they don't try to indoctrinate my children, and don't force me to pretend to believe what they do, I just don't see the harm.


The harm is that the misinformation and misbelief continues into the next generation, and some of those people might force you to pretend to believe. also, a new generation of kids is indoctrinated into false and sometimes scary beliefs that cause them to suffer until they grow up and can discard the false beliefs given to them by their parents - the way some many people are doing now. Why actively perpetuate something like this? If some people are naturally drawn to faith and others are not, then all children should be taught that and then make a choice to believe or not, instead of being frightened (or comforted) by religion when they are little children, only to question what they learned once they are adults, capable of knowing their own minds.


I am raising my child as a Roman Catholic and he is attending Catholic school. He is being taught that God is the Father of all creation, that Jesus was sent to love and help us, that qualities like patience, kindness and obedience are virtues. He is encouraged to ask questions. He knows that other people believe differently and that some people do not believe in God at all. He is free to question in our home. We are open about our own doubts and our own failings. We do not talk about sin, the devil, or hell with our five year old, nor do they do so at school. What, exactly, is scary about any of this? I feel like your notions about this issue are based on the extreme fringes of Christian practice, or of practices long gone by, not on the mainstream reality of religious education in 21st century America.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:22     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:I think people believe in God as part tradition and part hope. I would not want to be the one to tell someone that lost a child that their child is not waiting for them with Jesus. Religion is a coping mechanism that works pretty darn well for many people.

I'm not a joiner myself, so I don't really get the value of a religion specifically, and I don't mind taking responsibility for my life and my actions. I also don't need to believe that everyone will get their just desserts, because I am not a child anymore.

I don't understand why self-professed atheists sound so angry though. If it doesn't work for you, and it works for someone else, fine. As long as they don't try to indoctrinate my children, and don't force me to pretend to believe what they do, I just don't see the harm.


The harm is that the misinformation and misbelief continues into the next generation, and some of those people might force you to pretend to believe. also, a new generation of kids is indoctrinated into false and sometimes scary beliefs that cause them to suffer until they grow up and can discard the false beliefs given to them by their parents - the way some many people are doing now. Why actively perpetuate something like this? If some people are naturally drawn to faith and others are not, then all children should be taught that and then make a choice to believe or not, instead of being frightened (or comforted) by religion when they are little children, only to question what they learned once they are adults, capable of knowing their own minds.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:15     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes no sense that life exists. It makes no sense that rocks exist for that matter. We all got here somehow. And that is why even very logical people believe in God. But it's just something that ypu know us true in your heart.


Why does it make any more sense for God to exist ex nihilio than anything else?


It doesn't. The fact is that none of us can begin to understand exactly how we came to be here. I believe in God because I cannot believe that this universe, this earth, and everything that inhabits in and has been created is the result of a random accident. Nothing else that I can understand and physically experience in this world was created randomly. Every useful thing I encounter was created through intelligence and with purpose. And I am a Christian because as a philosophy, it has worked wonders on my own soul and it makes sense to me. I would never presume to tell someone else what they should believe - I am not a proselytizer. I have my own beliefs based on intensely personal experience. Do I have doubts? Of course. Most intelligent people do. But they are not enough any longer to make me doubt the existence of a God.


Is your God part of a religious narrative -- e.g. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc -- or did it simply create the universe?


I said above that I am Christian - Roman Catholic to be precise.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:09     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes no sense that life exists. It makes no sense that rocks exist for that matter. We all got here somehow. And that is why even very logical people believe in God. But it's just something that ypu know us true in your heart.


Why does it make any more sense for God to exist ex nihilio than anything else?


It doesn't. The fact is that none of us can begin to understand exactly how we came to be here. I believe in God because I cannot believe that this universe, this earth, and everything that inhabits in and has been created is the result of a random accident. Nothing else that I can understand and physically experience in this world was created randomly. Every useful thing I encounter was created through intelligence and with purpose. And I am a Christian because as a philosophy, it has worked wonders on my own soul and it makes sense to me. I would never presume to tell someone else what they should believe - I am not a proselytizer. I have my own beliefs based on intensely personal experience. Do I have doubts? Of course. Most intelligent people do. But they are not enough any longer to make me doubt the existence of a God.


Is your God part of a religious narrative -- e.g. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc -- or did it simply create the universe?
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 13:05     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes no sense that life exists. It makes no sense that rocks exist for that matter. We all got here somehow. And that is why even very logical people believe in God. But it's just something that ypu know us true in your heart.


Why does it make any more sense for God to exist ex nihilio than anything else?





It doesn't , but that is also a religion and Christianity has historical evidence and the inexplicable , astounding shroud of Turin . If you believe , as I do , that time itself is a creation and God exists beyond time, it makes more sense. Where God is , time doesn't exist.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 12:54     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It makes no sense that life exists. It makes no sense that rocks exist for that matter. We all got here somehow. And that is why even very logical people believe in God. But it's just something that ypu know us true in your heart.


Why does it make any more sense for God to exist ex nihilio than anything else?


It doesn't. The fact is that none of us can begin to understand exactly how we came to be here. I believe in God because I cannot believe that this universe, this earth, and everything that inhabits in and has been created is the result of a random accident. Nothing else that I can understand and physically experience in this world was created randomly. Every useful thing I encounter was created through intelligence and with purpose. And I am a Christian because as a philosophy, it has worked wonders on my own soul and it makes sense to me. I would never presume to tell someone else what they should believe - I am not a proselytizer. I have my own beliefs based on intensely personal experience. Do I have doubts? Of course. Most intelligent people do. But they are not enough any longer to make me doubt the existence of a God.
Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 12:50     Subject: Re:Why believe in god?
OP, I started the line of thinking that absolute truth exists and I call that truth God. Although I made it up, I do think this rationale meets the criteria you set out in your original question. You and your fellow atheists have rejected this rationale out of hand with unsubstantive arguments (eg, weak thinking) without ever admitting that you do not believe absolute truth exists.

So, let me ask, do you believe it exists or not? Are you afraid if you concede the existence of absolute truth, you are trapped into believing in God or what? I find it very difficult to believe that someone who purports to strongly support scientific inquiry does not believe absolute truth exists.

Anonymous
Post 12/16/2014 12:36     Subject: Why believe in god?
Anonymous wrote:It makes no sense that life exists. It makes no sense that rocks exist for that matter. We all got here somehow. And that is why even very logical people believe in God. But it's just something that ypu know us true in your heart.


Why does it make any more sense for God to exist ex nihilio than anything else?