Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now that we've gone off topic, I have a question for Muslim poster, who wrote:

She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too.

I don't see how the plural used shows definitively that both men and women were being addressed. In Arabic, the same plural is used when it is men only being addressed or men and women being addressed. I don't know what grounds one would use to say one or other was meant. All that we know is that women only were not being addressed as that is a different plural.

So it's like French and Spanish, if only in the sense that you use the masculine plural for a group that could either consist of both men and women, or just more than one men.

Yes, except it is not just nouns and adjectives but also verbs that have masculine and feminine plurals, with the masculine plural being used where there is at least one man or masculine item. I didn't look up the passage Muslim PP referred to but it likely uses a masculine plural noun and verb.

There is also a dual in Arabic for referring to two people or things. There is a masculine dual and a feminine dual for nouns, adjectives and verbs, with the former used where a male and a female or a masculine and a feminine item are the subjects.

Anonymous wrote:Now that we've gone off topic, I have a question for Muslim poster, who wrote:

She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too.

I don't see how the plural used shows definitively that both men and women were being addressed. In Arabic, the same plural is used when it is men only being addressed or men and women being addressed. I don't know what grounds one would use to say one or other was meant. All that we know is that women only were not being addressed as that is a different plural.

So it's like French and Spanish, if only in the sense that you use the masculine plural for a group that could either consist of both men and women, or just more than one men.

[quote=Anonymous]Lets backtrack. Please post what I first wrote about Islam on this thread. I wrote that the finding of this Thomas gospel affirms my faith in Islam. How can this justify the accusation that followed? Start analyzing this thread from that.[/quote]

Once again.... Only one poster commented on your Thomas post. That was [b]not[/b] what got you into trouble. That was [b]not [/b][b]the reason people accused you of underestimating your audience and deliberately misleading us.

Here is your post that got you into trouble. As you can see, you once again repeated the "equality" statement, you once again neglected to say what the laws actually are, and once again you disparaged your nemesis for not understanding what you meant by "equality" and also for not agreeing with your definition of "equality." Bonus points for dragging the purity pledge for Muslim women into the convo.

This post, at 10/25 00:16, is the source of the accusations against you:

[quote=Anonymous]There was one poster who had some knowledge in the way of scholars and some islamic historical context. I already acknowledged this but also said a little knowledge is dangerous. It can give a person a false sense of security and prevent them from seeking additional knowledge. Such was the case with that poster. [b]This is why she was was completely befuddled when the other Muslim poster said women had equality in Islam. She did not think about the equality in terms of the value of rights, she thought of equality in strictly linear terms,[/b] the way a self taught westerner would think. She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too. She saw women were taking the oath of allegiance for the first time in history without a guardian, but alleged it was discriminatory since men didn't have to. Of course men took this oath regularly before, so it was less noteworthy. Still, it was mentioned men did when the Quran talked about the treaty under the tree. She didn't know about this verse either and she had no idea about the historical context, otherwise she would not have made the accusation that the oath was discriminatory. Then she saw where the Prophet asked about converting womens illegitimate children and alleged it discriminated women because the same questioning did not exist for men. There was no way to identify a man's illegitimate child since fornication and adultery were not uncommon. A man could not be held financially responsible for children without evidence he fathered them. If a woman admitted her children were illegitimate, however, the State would provide for them. The poster spun this into a discrimination argument because she did not understand islamic history.
So, its not that we refused to acknowledge her superior understanding of Islam, it is simply that there were some gaps, critical ones, in her understanding that contributed to her misjudgments.
[/quote]

Now that we've gone off topic, I have a question for Muslim poster, who wrote:

She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too.

I don't see how the plural used shows definitively that both men and women were being addressed. In Arabic, the same plural is used when it is men only being addressed or men and women being addressed. I don't know what grounds one would use to say one or other was meant. All that we know is that women only were not being addressed as that is a different plural.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Again, that wasn't what was being said. Nobody can possibly complain if somebody talks about their faith honestly and with full disclosure. On the other hand, if you talk about your faith using code words like "equality" that seem designed to mislead people, and endless recaps that don't quite follow what happened, then people will complain. [/quote]

And [b]yet all I did on THIS thread[/b] was simply say the finding of this Thomas gospel affirms my faith, and that was enough to provoke an immediate accusation of proselytizing by Muslims who make the same comment as I did here. So here I made one honest comment about my faith, yet look at the hostile reaction. So yes, people here do complain about honest comments about Islam, because they dislike reading anything positive about our religion. That is precisely what islamophobia is.[/quote]

That wasn't *all* you said. You did your usual things of (a) spinning old threads, and (b) tossing out words like "equality" without any qualifications then accusing that one poor poster of understanding the word "equality" in her own "western" way.

All righty, once again, here's what you said at 00:16:

[quote=Anonymous]There was one poster who had some knowledge in the way of scholars and some islamic historical context. I already acknowledged this but also said a little knowledge is dangerous. It can give a person a false sense of security and prevent them from seeking additional knowledge. Such was the case with that poster. [b]This is why she was was completely befuddled when the other Muslim poster said women had equality in Islam. She did not think about the equality in terms of the value of rights, she thought of equality in strictly linear terms,[/b] the way a self taught westerner would think. She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too. She saw women were taking the oath of allegiance for the first time in history without a guardian, but alleged it was discriminatory since men didn't have to. Of course men took this oath regularly before, so it was less noteworthy. Still, it was mentioned men did when the Quran talked about the treaty under the tree. She didn't know about this verse either and she had no idea about the historical context, otherwise she would not have made the accusation that the oath was discriminatory. Then she saw where the Prophet asked about converting womens illegitimate children and alleged it discriminated women because the same questioning did not exist for men. There was no way to identify a man's illegitimate child since fornication and adultery were not uncommon. A man could not be held financially responsible for children without evidence he fathered them. If a woman admitted her children were illegitimate, however, the State would provide for them. The poster spun this into a discrimination argument because she did not understand islamic history.
So, its not that we refused to acknowledge her superior understanding of Islam, it is simply that there were some gaps, critical ones, in her understanding that contributed to her misjudgments.[/quote]

THAT'S what provoked the real hostility. THAT'S what got people really mad at you.
[/quote]

Lets backtrack. Please post what I first wrote about Islam on this thread. I wrote that the finding of this Thomas gospel affirms my faith in Islam. How can this justify the accusation that followed? Start analyzing this thread from that.

This pretty much shows the insane level some Muslims will take their religion. If we were discussing this in person it would not surprise me if physical violence occurred.

Ugh.

Dear Muslim poster: you also said this.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry to hijack this threads topic. Last I am saying about it.

I hope you will take it to heart. You reignite the flames every time you try to put a favorable spin an old thread, or repeat hot button words like "equality" that got hashed out on old threads.

Reposting for formating.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Again, that wasn't what was being said. Nobody can possibly complain if somebody talks about their faith honestly and with full disclosure. On the other hand, if you talk about your faith using code words like "equality" that seem designed to mislead people, and endless recaps that don't quite follow what happened, then people will complain. [/quote]

And [b]yet all I did on THIS thread[/b] was simply say the finding of this Thomas gospel affirms my faith, and that was enough to provoke an immediate accusation of proselytizing by Muslims who make the same comment as I did here. So here I made one honest comment about my faith, yet look at the hostile reaction. So yes, people here do complain about honest comments about Islam, because they dislike reading anything positive about our religion. That is precisely what islamophobia is.[/quote]

[b]That wasn't *all* you said. You did your usual things of (a) spinning old threads, and (b) tossing out words like "equality" without any qualifications then accusing that one poor poster of understanding the word "equality" in her own "western" way.

All righty, once again, here's what you said at 00:16:

[quote=Anonymous]There was one poster who had some knowledge in the way of scholars and some islamic historical context. I already acknowledged this but also said a little knowledge is dangerous. It can give a person a false sense of security and prevent them from seeking additional knowledge. Such was the case with that poster. [b]This is why she was was completely befuddled when the other Muslim poster said women had equality in Islam. She did not think about the equality in terms of the value of rights, she thought of equality in strictly linear terms,[/b] the way a self taught westerner would think. She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too. She saw women were taking the oath of allegiance for the first time in history without a guardian, but alleged it was discriminatory since men didn't have to. Of course men took this oath regularly before, so it was less noteworthy. Still, it was mentioned men did when the Quran talked about the treaty under the tree. She didn't know about this verse either and she had no idea about the historical context, otherwise she would not have made the accusation that the oath was discriminatory. Then she saw where the Prophet asked about converting womens illegitimate children and alleged it discriminated women because the same questioning did not exist for men. There was no way to identify a man's illegitimate child since fornication and adultery were not uncommon. A man could not be held financially responsible for children without evidence he fathered them. If a woman admitted her children were illegitimate, however, the State would provide for them. The poster spun this into a discrimination argument because she did not understand islamic history.
So, its not that we refused to acknowledge her superior understanding of Islam, it is simply that there were some gaps, critical ones, in her understanding that contributed to her misjudgments.[/quote]

THAT'S what provoked the real hostility. THAT'S what got people really mad at you.
[/quote][/b]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Again, that wasn't what was being said. Nobody can possibly complain if somebody talks about their faith honestly and with full disclosure. On the other hand, if you talk about your faith using code words like "equality" that seem designed to mislead people, and endless recaps that don't quite follow what happened, then people will complain. [/quote]

And [b]yet all I did on THIS thread[/b] was simply say the finding of this Thomas gospel affirms my faith, and that was enough to provoke an immediate accusation of proselytizing by Muslims who make the same comment as I did here. So here I made one honest comment about my faith, yet look at the hostile reaction. So yes, people here do complain about honest comments about Islam, because they dislike reading anything positive about our religion. That is precisely what islamophobia is.[/quote]

That wasn't *all* you said. You did your usual things of (a) spinning old threads, and (b) tossing out words like "equality" without any qualifications then accusing that one poor poster of understanding the word "equality" in her own "western" way.

All righty, once again, here's what you said at 00:16:

[quote=Anonymous]There was one poster who had some knowledge in the way of scholars and some islamic historical context. I already acknowledged this but also said a little knowledge is dangerous. It can give a person a false sense of security and prevent them from seeking additional knowledge. Such was the case with that poster. [b]This is why she was was completely befuddled when the other Muslim poster said women had equality in Islam. She did not think about the equality in terms of the value of rights, she thought of equality in strictly linear terms,[/b] the way a self taught westerner would think. She had no idea about sura Ash Shurra and the verse that addressed men AND women on how to resolve (political) matters that required collective opinions. She could not read Arabic so she had no idea the language used in that verse was plural, addressing women too. She saw women were taking the oath of allegiance for the first time in history without a guardian, but alleged it was discriminatory since men didn't have to. Of course men took this oath regularly before, so it was less noteworthy. Still, it was mentioned men did when the Quran talked about the treaty under the tree. She didn't know about this verse either and she had no idea about the historical context, otherwise she would not have made the accusation that the oath was discriminatory. Then she saw where the Prophet asked about converting womens illegitimate children and alleged it discriminated women because the same questioning did not exist for men. There was no way to identify a man's illegitimate child since fornication and adultery were not uncommon. A man could not be held financially responsible for children without evidence he fathered them. If a woman admitted her children were illegitimate, however, the State would provide for them. The poster spun this into a discrimination argument because she did not understand islamic history.
So, its not that we refused to acknowledge her superior understanding of Islam, it is simply that there were some gaps, critical ones, in her understanding that contributed to her misjudgments.[/quote]

THAT'S what provoked the real hostility. THAT'S what got people really mad at you.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Where is post 00:06 in this thread?????? Did you mean 00:16???

Look at what I was accused of in 11:45 first. I was first accused of proselytizing. Then another poster accused muslims of lying. I didn't just start posting about voting rights out of the blue. It was preceded with unfair accusations. Naturally Im going to defend Islam.[/quote]

Yes, post 00:16 on page three of this thread. Nobody accused Muslims in general of lying. It was suggested, however, that you yourself have a very selective memory.

And yes, on this thread, you did start posting about voting rights "out of the blue." Nobody mentioned it here until you brought it up. Unless you can explain how the accusations about proselytizing necessitated a response that involved voting rights.[/quote]

- I posted that Muslims don't believe in the divinity of Jesus and so my faith in Islam is affirmed by the archeological finding of Thomas.
- Suddenly I was accused of proselytizing.
- I asked why I am not permitted to speak without being assigned sinister motives.
- Then another poster said we muslims did not acknowledge the islamophobe's superior knowledge and if we had done that, all would have been well.
- I replied and said she had some knowledge but huge holes in her understanding the way a self taught westerner might have. The confusion about voting rights was cited by me as an example.

Muslims must be able to post favorable comments about their religion the way Christians post favorably about their religion, without accusations of proselytizing.

Muslims must be permitted to compare and contrast religions without accusations of proselytizing.

If you don't permit Muslims to do what Christians do here on DCUM every day, it is islamophobic behavior.[/quote]

- People are accusing [i]you[/i] of these things. They aren't accusing Muslims in general.

- Nobody ever told you to acknowledge the superior knowledge of the person you're calling an islamophobe. That wasn't my post. But that poster said that you greatly underestimated your audience's knowledge. Period. Here's her post from 10/24/2014 17:22 , in full:

[quote=Anonymous]I am okay with Muslim PP mentioning that Islam shows reverence for Jesus. I would say this is probably not known by 98% of the US population, and that in these days of ISIS, it is positive for all to find points of commonality that can foster better dialogue. I think it is fine to make this point several times as different posters read different threads.

I have noticed, however, on other Muslim threads--have no idea of Muslim PP on this thread is one of them or not--that a couple of Muslim posters write things that treat other (nonMuslim) DCUM posters as though they are as ignorant of Islam as this 98% even when their posts show a [b]high level of familiarity with, and even expertise in, Islam. [/b]Once this knowledge becomes apparent through the posts, these Muslim posters would be well advised to respond in a manner that acknowledges this to avoid getting trapped in unproductive arguments that arise owing to [b]their underestimation of the audience. [/b][/quote]

- There was no need for you to bring up women's equality or women's voting rights. [/quote]

But think about this. If only two practicing Muslim women write on the subject of Islam and you accuse both of proselytizing and lying and/or misleading, what motivation does that provide for other silent DCUM muslim readers to speak up? To them it looks like any Muslim who defends their faith here will be bashed. If anything, they will avoid expressing their views.[/quote]

Again, that wasn't what was being said. Nobody can possibly complain if somebody talks about their faith honestly and with full disclosure. On the other hand, if you talk about your faith using code words like "equality" that seem designed to mislead people, and endless recaps that don't quite follow what happened, then people will complain. [/quote]

And yet all I did on THIS thread was simply say the finding of this Thomas gospel affirms my faith, and that was enough to provoke an immediate accusation of proselytizing by Muslims who make the same comment as I did here. So here I made one honest comment about my faith, yet look at the hostile reaction. So yes, people here do complain about honest comments about Islam, because they dislike reading anything positive about our religion. That is precisely what islamophobia is.

[quote=Anonymous]

Where is post 00:06 in this thread?????? Did you mean 00:16???

Look at what I was accused of in 11:45 first. I was first accused of proselytizing. Then another poster accused muslims of lying. I didn't just start posting about voting rights out of the blue. It was preceded with unfair accusations. Naturally Im going to defend Islam.

Yes, post 00:16 on page three of this thread. Nobody accused Muslims in general of lying. It was suggested, however, that you yourself have a very selective memory.

And yes, on this thread, you did start posting about voting rights "out of the blue." Nobody mentioned it here until you brought it up. Unless you can explain how the accusations about proselytizing necessitated a response that involved voting rights.

- I posted that Muslims don't believe in the divinity of Jesus and so my faith in Islam is affirmed by the archeological finding of Thomas.
- Suddenly I was accused of proselytizing.
- I asked why I am not permitted to speak without being assigned sinister motives.
- Then another poster said we muslims did not acknowledge the islamophobe's superior knowledge and if we had done that, all would have been well.
- I replied and said she had some knowledge but huge holes in her understanding the way a self taught westerner might have. The confusion about voting rights was cited by me as an example.

Muslims must be able to post favorable comments about their religion the way Christians post favorably about their religion, without accusations of proselytizing.

Muslims must be permitted to compare and contrast religions without accusations of proselytizing.

If you don't permit Muslims to do what Christians do here on DCUM every day, it is islamophobic behavior.

- People are accusing [i]you[/i] of these things. They aren't accusing Muslims in general.

- Nobody ever told you to acknowledge the superior knowledge of the person you're calling an islamophobe. That wasn't my post. But that poster said that you greatly underestimated your audience's knowledge. Period. Here's her post from 10/24/2014 17:22 , in full:

[quote=Anonymous]I am okay with Muslim PP mentioning that Islam shows reverence for Jesus. I would say this is probably not known by 98% of the US population, and that in these days of ISIS, it is positive for all to find points of commonality that can foster better dialogue. I think it is fine to make this point several times as different posters read different threads.

I have noticed, however, on other Muslim threads--have no idea of Muslim PP on this thread is one of them or not--that a couple of Muslim posters write things that treat other (nonMuslim) DCUM posters as though they are as ignorant of Islam as this 98% even when their posts show a [b]high level of familiarity with, and even expertise in, Islam. [/b]Once this knowledge becomes apparent through the posts, these Muslim posters would be well advised to respond in a manner that acknowledges this to avoid getting trapped in unproductive arguments that arise owing to [b]their underestimation of the audience. [/b]

- There was no need for you to bring up women's equality or women's voting rights.

But think about this. If only two practicing Muslim women write on the subject of Islam and you accuse both of proselytizing and lying and/or misleading, what motivation does that provide for other silent DCUM muslim readers to speak up? To them it looks like any Muslim who defends their faith here will be bashed. If anything, they will avoid expressing their views.

Again, that wasn't what was being said. Nobody can possibly complain if somebody talks about their faith honestly and with full disclosure. On the other hand, if you talk about your faith using code words like "equality" that seem designed to mislead people, and endless recaps that don't quite follow what happened, then people will complain. [/quote]

Yikes. Reposting so it's legible.

Again, that wasn't what was being said. Nobody can possibly complain if somebody talks about their faith honestly and with full disclosure. On the other hand, if you talk about your faith using code words like "equality" that seem designed to mislead people, and endless recaps that don't quite follow what happened, then people will complain.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Where is post 00:06 in this thread?????? Did you mean 00:16???

Look at what I was accused of in 11:45 first. I was first accused of proselytizing. Then another poster accused muslims of lying. I didn't just start posting about voting rights out of the blue. It was preceded with unfair accusations. Naturally Im going to defend Islam.[/quote]

Yes, post 00:16 on page three of this thread. Nobody accused Muslims in general of lying. It was suggested, however, that you yourself have a very selective memory.

And yes, on this thread, you did start posting about voting rights "out of the blue." Nobody mentioned it here until you brought it up. Unless you can explain how the accusations about proselytizing necessitated a response that involved voting rights.[/quote]

- I posted that Muslims don't believe in the divinity of Jesus and so my faith in Islam is affirmed by the archeological finding of Thomas.
- Suddenly I was accused of proselytizing.
- I asked why I am not permitted to speak without being assigned sinister motives.
- Then another poster said we muslims did not acknowledge the islamophobe's superior knowledge and if we had done that, all would have been well.
- I replied and said she had some knowledge but huge holes in her understanding the way a self taught westerner might have. The confusion about voting rights was cited by me as an example.

Muslims must be able to post favorable comments about their religion the way Christians post favorably about their religion, without accusations of proselytizing.

Muslims must be permitted to compare and contrast religions without accusations of proselytizing.

If you don't permit Muslims to do what Christians do here on DCUM every day, it is islamophobic behavior.[/quote]

- People are accusing [i]you[/i] of these things. They aren't accusing Muslims in general.

- Nobody ever told you to acknowledge the superior knowledge of the person you're calling an islamophobe. That wasn't my post. But that poster said that you greatly underestimated your audience's knowledge. Period. Here's her post from 10/24/2014 17:22 , in full:

[quote=Anonymous]I am okay with Muslim PP mentioning that Islam shows reverence for Jesus. I would say this is probably not known by 98% of the US population, and that in these days of ISIS, it is positive for all to find points of commonality that can foster better dialogue. I think it is fine to make this point several times as different posters read different threads.

I have noticed, however, on other Muslim threads--have no idea of Muslim PP on this thread is one of them or not--that a couple of Muslim posters write things that treat other (nonMuslim) DCUM posters as though they are as ignorant of Islam as this 98% even when their posts show a [b]high level of familiarity with, and even expertise in, Islam. [/b]Once this knowledge becomes apparent through the posts, these Muslim posters would be well advised to respond in a manner that acknowledges this to avoid getting trapped in unproductive arguments that arise owing to [b]their underestimation of the audience. [/b][/quote]

- There was no need for you to bring up women's equality or women's voting rights. [/quote]

But think about this. If only two practicing Muslim women write on the subject of Islam and you accuse both of proselytizing and lying and/or misleading, what motivation does that provide for other silent DCUM muslim readers to speak up? To them it looks like any Muslim who defends their faith here will be bashed. If anything, they will avoid expressing their views.[/quote]

And to add, of course if I am accused of not recognizing that islamophobe's advanced knowledge, but I do not think her knowledge is complete and accurate, I am going to bring up the most recent glaring example of her overlooking and not understanding the Arabic language used in sura Ash Shurra on the voting issue. If I had simply refuted the point of her having advanced knowledge without providing an example of proof, you might simply have discounted my point as being baseless.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Where is post 00:06 in this thread?????? Did you mean 00:16???

Look at what I was accused of in 11:45 first. I was first accused of proselytizing. Then another poster accused muslims of lying. I didn't just start posting about voting rights out of the blue. It was preceded with unfair accusations. Naturally Im going to defend Islam.[/quote]

Yes, post 00:16 on page three of this thread. Nobody accused Muslims in general of lying. It was suggested, however, that you yourself have a very selective memory.

And yes, on this thread, you did start posting about voting rights "out of the blue." Nobody mentioned it here until you brought it up. Unless you can explain how the accusations about proselytizing necessitated a response that involved voting rights.[/quote]

- I posted that Muslims don't believe in the divinity of Jesus and so my faith in Islam is affirmed by the archeological finding of Thomas.
- Suddenly I was accused of proselytizing.
- I asked why I am not permitted to speak without being assigned sinister motives.
- Then another poster said we muslims did not acknowledge the islamophobe's superior knowledge and if we had done that, all would have been well.
- I replied and said she had some knowledge but huge holes in her understanding the way a self taught westerner might have. The confusion about voting rights was cited by me as an example.

Muslims must be able to post favorable comments about their religion the way Christians post favorably about their religion, without accusations of proselytizing.

Muslims must be permitted to compare and contrast religions without accusations of proselytizing.

If you don't permit Muslims to do what Christians do here on DCUM every day, it is islamophobic behavior.[/quote]

- People are accusing [i]you[/i] of these things. They aren't accusing Muslims in general.

- Nobody ever told you to acknowledge the superior knowledge of the person you're calling an islamophobe. That wasn't my post. But that poster said that you greatly underestimated your audience's knowledge. Period. Here's her post from 10/24/2014 17:22 , in full:

[quote=Anonymous]I am okay with Muslim PP mentioning that Islam shows reverence for Jesus. I would say this is probably not known by 98% of the US population, and that in these days of ISIS, it is positive for all to find points of commonality that can foster better dialogue. I think it is fine to make this point several times as different posters read different threads.

I have noticed, however, on other Muslim threads--have no idea of Muslim PP on this thread is one of them or not--that a couple of Muslim posters write things that treat other (nonMuslim) DCUM posters as though they are as ignorant of Islam as this 98% even when their posts show a [b]high level of familiarity with, and even expertise in, Islam. [/b]Once this knowledge becomes apparent through the posts, these Muslim posters would be well advised to respond in a manner that acknowledges this to avoid getting trapped in unproductive arguments that arise owing to [b]their underestimation of the audience. [/b][/quote]

- There was no need for you to bring up women's equality or women's voting rights. [/quote]

But think about this. If only two practicing Muslim women write on the subject of Islam and you accuse both of proselytizing and lying and/or misleading, what motivation does that provide for other silent DCUM muslim readers to speak up? To them it looks like any Muslim who defends their faith here will be bashed. If anything, they will avoid expressing their views.[/quote]

Again, that wasn't what was being said. Nobody can possibly complain if somebody talks about their faith honestly and with full disclosure. On the other hand, if you talk about your faith using code words like "equality" that seem designed to mislead people, and endless recaps that don't quite follow what happened, then people will complain.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Where is post 00:06 in this thread?????? Did you mean 00:16???

Look at what I was accused of in 11:45 first. I was first accused of proselytizing. Then another poster accused muslims of lying. I didn't just start posting about voting rights out of the blue. It was preceded with unfair accusations. Naturally Im going to defend Islam.[/quote]

Yes, post 00:16 on page three of this thread. Nobody accused Muslims in general of lying. It was suggested, however, that you yourself have a very selective memory.

And yes, on this thread, you did start posting about voting rights "out of the blue." Nobody mentioned it here until you brought it up. Unless you can explain how the accusations about proselytizing necessitated a response that involved voting rights.[/quote]

- I posted that Muslims don't believe in the divinity of Jesus and so my faith in Islam is affirmed by the archeological finding of Thomas.
- Suddenly I was accused of proselytizing.
- I asked why I am not permitted to speak without being assigned sinister motives.
- Then another poster said we muslims did not acknowledge the islamophobe's superior knowledge and if we had done that, all would have been well.
- I replied and said she had some knowledge but huge holes in her understanding the way a self taught westerner might have. The confusion about voting rights was cited by me as an example.

Muslims must be able to post favorable comments about their religion the way Christians post favorably about their religion, without accusations of proselytizing.

Muslims must be permitted to compare and contrast religions without accusations of proselytizing.

If you don't permit Muslims to do what Christians do here on DCUM every day, it is islamophobic behavior.[/quote]

- People are accusing [i]you[/i] of these things. They aren't accusing Muslims in general.

- Nobody ever told you to acknowledge the superior knowledge of the person you're calling an islamophobe. That wasn't my post. But that poster said that you greatly underestimated your audience's knowledge. Period. Here's her post from 10/24/2014 17:22 , in full:

[quote=Anonymous]I am okay with Muslim PP mentioning that Islam shows reverence for Jesus. I would say this is probably not known by 98% of the US population, and that in these days of ISIS, it is positive for all to find points of commonality that can foster better dialogue. I think it is fine to make this point several times as different posters read different threads.

I have noticed, however, on other Muslim threads--have no idea of Muslim PP on this thread is one of them or not--that a couple of Muslim posters write things that treat other (nonMuslim) DCUM posters as though they are as ignorant of Islam as this 98% even when their posts show a [b]high level of familiarity with, and even expertise in, Islam. [/b]Once this knowledge becomes apparent through the posts, these Muslim posters would be well advised to respond in a manner that acknowledges this to avoid getting trapped in unproductive arguments that arise owing to [b]their underestimation of the audience. [/b][/quote]

- There was no need for you to bring up women's equality or women's voting rights. [/quote]

But think about this. If only two practicing Muslim women write on the subject of Islam and you accuse both of proselytizing and lying and/or misleading, what motivation does that provide for other silent DCUM muslim readers to speak up? To them it looks like any Muslim who defends their faith here will be bashed. If anything, they will avoid expressing their views.