Anonymous wrote:For those of us who don't subscribe to an authoritarian parenting style, it really is hard to understand the need to demand "respect." As adults, don't we have enough self-respect that we don't need tribute from our children for our self-esteem?

Of course teens can be grating and that can make parents sad. They're supposed to be pushing off to find their own way. It is not as if there isn't plenty of research on child/teen development and the dynamics behind how the parent-child relationship changes. In exchange for suffering the teenage years, we get to have an interesting adult relationship with them.

My goal is for DC to become a happy, well-adjusted adult with good moral judgment. Simply demanding compliance to parental demands doesn't do much to build ethical thinking, since you can't rely on someone else to tell you what to do as an adult.

And to further the parenting culture wars, I doubt a passive or compliant child is going to have the ambition or wherewithal to become a real high achiever. It's how you produce binge-drinking frat boys/sorority girls at third tier colleges and future sales reps.

I disagree. Teaching children to respect authority will serve them well in their adult life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when does raising teens have to equal putting up with outrageous and disrespectful behavior? Why is respect optional?

Said no one who ever raised a teenager.

Wrong. I posted earlier. My children are 19, 15, 12 & 6. The idea that my teens can scream, curse or slam doors is foreign to me. It won't happen. Period. You parents need to grow some balls and stop being so damn passive.

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who don't subscribe to an authoritarian parenting style, it really is hard to understand the need to demand "respect." As adults, don't we have enough self-respect that we don't need tribute from our children for our self-esteem?

Of course teens can be grating and that can make parents sad. They're supposed to be pushing off to find their own way. It is not as if there isn't plenty of research on child/teen development and the dynamics behind how the parent-child relationship changes. In exchange for suffering the teenage years, we get to have an interesting adult relationship with them.

My goal is for DC to become a happy, well-adjusted adult with good moral judgment. Simply demanding compliance to parental demands doesn't do much to build ethical thinking, since you can't rely on someone else to tell you what to do as an adult.

And to further the parenting culture wars, I doubt a passive or compliant child is going to have the ambition or wherewithal to become a real high achiever. It's how you produce binge-drinking frat boys/sorority girls at third tier colleges and future sales reps.

Oh, also, the need to demand "respect" isn't because I as an adult somehow rely on my child's respect for self-esteem. It's because I want my child to be a person who treats others with respect. You can understand that, right?

Anonymous wrote:For those of us who don't subscribe to an authoritarian parenting style, it really is hard to understand the need to demand "respect." As adults, don't we have enough self-respect that we don't need tribute from our children for our self-esteem?

Of course teens can be grating and that can make parents sad. They're supposed to be pushing off to find their own way. It is not as if there isn't plenty of research on child/teen development and the dynamics behind how the parent-child relationship changes. In exchange for suffering the teenage years, we get to have an interesting adult relationship with them.

My goal is for DC to become a happy, well-adjusted adult with good moral judgment. Simply demanding compliance to parental demands doesn't do much to build ethical thinking, since you can't rely on someone else to tell you what to do as an adult.

And to further the parenting culture wars, I doubt a passive or compliant child is going to have the ambition or wherewithal to become a real high achiever. It's how you produce binge-drinking frat boys/sorority girls at third tier colleges and future sales reps.

I think you're setting up a false choice. According to you, it's either "authoritarian parents with docile, compliant child" or "kids who do what they want but are ambitious and have spunk". Not buying that that's the choice. I was definitely a strong-willed, ambitious kid (and a very high achiever, if I do say so myself), but my parents absolutely required that I treat them with respect. Not fealty. I definitely argued with them, and disagreed with them. But I almost never broke their rules (which were reasonable rules) and knew for sure I'd be punished if I did. And I would have known for sure that if I yelled at either of them like that and used the F word, there would be big consequences for me. (I'd lose some privilege I cared about.)
I definitely don't buy the "just be smart -- don't do drugs in school" lesson. That sets the bar so low. I think it has to be more "here are our standards. I'll still love you if you break the rules, but there will be consequences and I'll be disappointed and I expect better from you." I cared a lot about living up to my parents' expectations, because I truly respected them. Still do.

Anonymous wrote:Laisez faire parenting tends to bite one's ass. You should have established dominance and respect at an early age. Prepare for teen pregnancy.

Super helpful. Prepare for lots of therapy bills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a lazy, entitled parasite when I was a teenager.

Basically, I was a Democrat special interest group.

The only thing that was missing was "you must vote for daddy or he will take the phone and the car away".

Sorry, but you still sound like a pouty baby.

Nah, today I work for a living and provide for the pouty babies - including those who leech off my tax dollars.

Oh, how silly. Go live somewhere with no income taxes. You'll love it. There are some countries in sub-Saharan Africa that fit the bill.

Laisez faire parenting tends to bite one's ass. You should have established dominance and respect at an early age. Prepare for teen pregnancy.

For those of us who don't subscribe to an authoritarian parenting style, it really is hard to understand the need to demand "respect." As adults, don't we have enough self-respect that we don't need tribute from our children for our self-esteem?

Of course teens can be grating and that can make parents sad. They're supposed to be pushing off to find their own way. It is not as if there isn't plenty of research on child/teen development and the dynamics behind how the parent-child relationship changes. In exchange for suffering the teenage years, we get to have an interesting adult relationship with them.

My goal is for DC to become a happy, well-adjusted adult with good moral judgment. Simply demanding compliance to parental demands doesn't do much to build ethical thinking, since you can't rely on someone else to tell you what to do as an adult.

And to further the parenting culture wars, I doubt a passive or compliant child is going to have the ambition or wherewithal to become a real high achiever. It's how you produce binge-drinking frat boys/sorority girls at third tier colleges and future sales reps.

Anonymous wrote:You know, I've raised 4 fairly respectful kids, who are now productive and loving adults. I learned a few things along the way: your goal is functioning independent adults.
Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, experience usually comes from bad judgment.

You have to let the kids fail. It really won't ruin their lives, especially when they're a young teen, and then they just might respect you a bit more.

Don't condescend to them. It's rude, and you will get it back in spades.

And couch a lot of your statements about their rudeness in simple terms: sorry, all that yelling leaves me too tired to do---whatever it is that they want you to do. I'm sorry, but until you take care of what you have--i.e keep your room clean, wash the dishes, whatever---you can't have any more.

My mom was pretty awesome with me when I was a teen. If I wanted her to do something but was being a snot, she'd just say, "I don't really feel like going out of my way to do a favor for someone who isn't being nice to me." When I screamed, "I hate you!" she said, "Well, I don't like you very much right now, either. But I still love you." When I failed to put away my clean clothes, she stopped doing my laundry, on the grounds that she didn't like wasting her time washing clothes that were going to be piled on the floor. When I wasn't honest about where I was going or who would be there, I didn't get to go out for a while. She was tough and she took no crap from me. But, she was also funny and warm and loving, and when I was kind and respectful to her, she returned it in spades. She didn't hold grudges, she didn't do anything for the purpose of "imposing her authority." The point was always to help me recognize the effects of my actions on others and to treat people (including her) with respect. And to own the consequences of my decisions. So even when I "hated" her, I respected her for treating me like a grownup and not being either a doormat or vindictive, and I respected the principles she was standing up for.

My lesson from that was not to make things into power struggles. It's not about who's in charge, or who has authority or control. It's about treating each other with respect--treat your teen with respect (which includes not rescuing her from the consequences of her choices) and insisting that she do the same to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when does raising teens have to equal putting up with outrageous and disrespectful behavior? Why is respect optional?

Said no one who ever raised a teenager.

Authority is conserved.

Either you have it, or they do.

Come back when you are actually raising teens and don't just hypothesizing.

"Authority is conserved" is true regardless of the age of the people you're dealing with.

But I've seen enough spineless parents on DCUM to know that it is not just the parents of teenagers who cravenly surrender their authority.

Anonymous wrote:

I think the posting above is worth noting, but not worrying about. They all have boyfriends whether you are aware of them or not - their grades go down at her age because they are drinking and getting high with their friends, and you only know the friends they let you know, and that is usually an edited version.

What you can do, is be aware. Have a real talk with her - not the parent/child talk, but the "just don't do stupid stuff" talk. Remind her that while it would be nice to get along, her job is school and being the best she can be. Explain what stupid stuff is. Unprotected sex, drugs during school, drinking with people you don't know. And make sure she knows that, in the end, you are unshockable and that she can trust you. And, tell her that you trust her to be SMART, not always good, but SMART.

Disagree. Kids need hard limits to test. They don't need soft limits because then they'll push the boundaries even further. You're sending your kid the message that it's OK with you if he does weed every day after school, so long as it's on the way home from school or at a friend's house instead of at school. Guess what boundaries your kid is going to test next....

Also, basically you're telling your kid that it's OK to break laws re pot and alcohol. Whatever happens to these laws over the next few years, you can be sure we're not going to see laws that allow teens under age 21 to do pot or alcohol. Kids have terrific hypocrisy antennae, and they'll laugh at you.

Seriously, your kid is laughing at you for trying to be a cool friend instead of a parent. He's probably going to do pot and alcohol regardless, but he doesn't need or want your permission.

So be a parent. Set expectations that are consistent with state laws instead of making you look like a hypocrite or a wannabe friend to your kids. Let them know in advance what the consequences will be, no driving for a month or whatever you decide. Do have the talks about consensual sex and drinking with strangers. Be available. And when you do find the pipe--and you probably will--do everything you said you would do, calmly, without yelling, but predictably.

Your kids will respect you for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a lazy, entitled parasite when I was a teenager.

Basically, I was a Democrat special interest group.

The only thing that was missing was "you must vote for daddy or he will take the phone and the car away".

Sorry, but you still sound like a pouty baby.

Nah, today I work for a living and provide for the pouty babies - including those who leech off my tax dollars.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since when does raising teens have to equal putting up with outrageous and disrespectful behavior? Why is respect optional?

Said no one who ever raised a teenager.

Authority is conserved.

Either you have it, or they do.

Come back when you are actually raising teens and don't just hypothesizing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents, you do not want them NOT to be able to drive

As punishment, restrictions on use of the car, yes, but for goodness sake, teach them to drive.

Why not? It's worth it to me to ferry them around for a week/month/whatever to teach a lesson.

Why are you going to ferry them around?

Just about everywhere they go in that car is a privilege that should be revoked along with the car.

If you lose your car privileges, you can take the bus to school, and otherwise stay home.

That was my post, and he already takes the bus to school. Maybe this is the difference between public and private schools, but in any case if this is a huge issue for you, you could let him drive to school but not on weekends for a month.

My kid can't take a bus to his job or to the doctor. I already drive him to these and, once he gets his license, I'm happy to drive him again for a month if it is necessary to make a point. makes a point.

Anonymous wrote:I was a lazy, entitled parasite when I was a teenager.

Basically, I was a Democrat special interest group.

The only thing that was missing was "you must vote for daddy or he will take the phone and the car away".

Sorry, but you still sound like a pouty baby.