Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 19:54     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:op, please think this through. If your kids have no real cultural affiliation to a tribe, this could backfire badly. What is going to happen when they show up and are invited to join a cultural group and other people realize what they have done? Also, if the admissions committee figures out your game, it may very well hurt your chances of admission. And if they think you are lying, word might get around to other schools.

If you have no real connection to a tribe, please don't do this. It is offensive and will be seen as such if it is ever revealed.


This is a silly scare tactic. Students are inundated with club opportunities. If invited and not comfortable, don't join No one is going to "check you out" like a Gestapo agent confirming ethnicity.


Look, claiming ON PAPER to be an ethnicity that the OP's child has no real connection to is definitely setting the child up for potential problems. The fact is, people who find out about this are going to see it for exactly what it is: appropriating the status of an extremely disadvantaged group for your own benefit. When and if that comes out, it could be very bad, and the risks outweigh whatever boost she'll get in admissions. I also think it is likely that the admissions officer would figure it out and ding her for being dishonest.

This all assumes that OP has no real connection to a tribe. If you do have a real connection and it is part of your and YOUR CHILD'S identity, then go ahead and put it down. But if you just have one great grandparent you think was Cherokee? Don't.


Stop. You are embarrassing yourself. The question is ethnicity, not tribal membership. If you're "just being honest" you'd say you want an admissions advantage. Fine. Please don't insult the rest of us by preventing it's otherwise.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 19:35     Subject: Re:At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:As someone who has sat on faculty hiring committees, I think Elizabeth Warren is not being truthful when she says she never benefitted from checking the American Indian box.

I could check that box but I don't. I have always identified as white and have not faced the discrimination that historically plagued Indians where I come from. I personally don't think it's right to game the system like this, and that's what you're proposing. If your kid has always identified as white, never faced discrimination, and does not have a family history of the social ills that trouble many families with Indian ancestry, I think you're subverting the purpose of affirmative action.


That is very noble. But it would be like choosing not to collect on a winning lottery ticket.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 18:04     Subject: Re:At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
OP here - my husband's family has Native American hertigage.


Do your children have any experience with their N.A. Heritage? URM is about two things. 1) bringing a diversity of experiences, 2) counteracting discrimination. If your kids are culturally white then neither of these will apply.


This exactly. If you do check the NA box, it will be asked about in any interview, alumni or departmental. There has been a lot of abuse in claiming URM status as a NA in the last several years, and admissions now routinely ensure that such claims are legit in that they meet the institutional goals of URM designation.

At least that is how it is in small to mid size SLACs. Not sure what they do in large R1s, but I imagine any perceived advantage there is moot.

--signed former admissions counselor.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 14:53     Subject: Re:At what point is URM status finally determined?
A close friend of mine was admitted to a selective college long ago, she is convinced, because she checked both the white box and the Native American box on her application because she had a very-long-ago relative rumored to be an Indian. (Like I do and like many people from the south and west.) She also happened to have straight dark hair. She said she had always been surprised she got in to this college because her record wasn't as stellar as most others there. She did well and took full advantage of being there, but she was never an Indian.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 13:30     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:The lack of understanding of Native American heritage reflected on this thread is astonishing, even for DC.


Ok, please enlighten us, and state your credentials for being an expert in native american heritage.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 12:52     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
The lack of understanding of Native American heritage reflected on this thread is astonishing, even for DC.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 11:32     Subject: Re:At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Is there a box for "Irish"? Don't think so. If your kids' great great grandfather was the last Cherokee Indian in the bloodline, do you think your kid should have an admissions advantage?


If I can demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Cherokee Nation that my kids are direct descendants of an enrolled member (so that they can be enrolled, too), why shouldn't they get "credit" for that in admissions, if the college considers tribal enrollment (not evidence of personal connection) a factor?


Box-checking on college applications fails to recognize the multifaceted nature of multiracial identity. Multiracial people may view themselves differently than others see them. There is no need for "cultural performance" to prove racial identity. Honesty is the essential starting point. After that, the best advice is to check the box that gives the greatest admissions advantage:

http://www.deloggio.com/diversty/race.html

Some just calling like they see it -- and I wouldn't quibble with this point of view. But dispense with the "just answer honestly" when you're referring to a kid's generations-ago and previously barely identified and sometimes ignored "heritage". Like, not being a particular URM for 17 years and then "just being honest" or rediscovering your roots when you fill out a college app. Come on.


Honestly?
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 09:22     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Answering a questioning honestly can't be wrong. PP is reading too much into the ethnicity question. Ethnicity is NOT used to determine SES. don't assume you know why schools ask the question, much less how they use the information.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 09:05     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Btw "Indian" is frequently used by native americans to describe themselves.


And the n word is used by blacks to describe themselves, but that doesn't make it less vulgar


I'm interested to know you are, PP. Pretty much anyone who has had any contact with Native Americans knows that "Indian" is a common term for self-reference (although the actual tribe is preferred). It is MUCH different than the n-word. "Native American" is arguably just as incorrect since it implies that America was always America and was just waiting there as America with its "Natives" waiting to be discovered.


Right. And "'Redskin" is a term of honor. People in the DMV Shoulst refrain from sharing their "knowledge" of Native Americans.


Again, curious if you know any Native Americans? In my experience "Indian" is acceptable. As long as there are major publications using the term, my own enrolled tribal member law professor had no problem with teaching a course called "Federal Indian Law," and Russell Means called himself an American Indian, I'm not going to presume to lecture about not using the term Indian. If an individual person tells me they prefer to be called Native American, of course I'd use that instead. But all available evidence indicates that both terms are acceptable.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 08:51     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:op, please think this through. If your kids have no real cultural affiliation to a tribe, this could backfire badly. What is going to happen when they show up and are invited to join a cultural group and other people realize what they have done? Also, if the admissions committee figures out your game, it may very well hurt your chances of admission. And if they think you are lying, word might get around to other schools.

If you have no real connection to a tribe, please don't do this. It is offensive and will be seen as such if it is ever revealed.


This is a silly scare tactic. Students are inundated with club opportunities. If invited and not comfortable, don't join No one is going to "check you out" like a Gestapo agent confirming ethnicity.


Look, claiming ON PAPER to be an ethnicity that the OP's child has no real connection to is definitely setting the child up for potential problems. The fact is, people who find out about this are going to see it for exactly what it is: appropriating the status of an extremely disadvantaged group for your own benefit. When and if that comes out, it could be very bad, and the risks outweigh whatever boost she'll get in admissions. I also think it is likely that the admissions officer would figure it out and ding her for being dishonest.

This all assumes that OP has no real connection to a tribe. If you do have a real connection and it is part of your and YOUR CHILD'S identity, then go ahead and put it down. But if you just have one great grandparent you think was Cherokee? Don't.


Stop. You are embarrassing yourself. The question is ethnicity, not tribal membership. If someone has Native American heritage they shouldn't hestitate to identify as Native American.


Do you really think this passes the "New York Times" test? How do you think people would react if they found out OP's kid with no knowledge or contact with native culture had gotten a diversity scholarship or admissions preference?
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 08:47     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Btw "Indian" is frequently used by native americans to describe themselves.


And the n word is used by blacks to describe themselves, but that doesn't make it less vulgar


I'm interested to know you are, PP. Pretty much anyone who has had any contact with Native Americans knows that "Indian" is a common term for self-reference (although the actual tribe is preferred). It is MUCH different than the n-word. "Native American" is arguably just as incorrect since it implies that America was always America and was just waiting there as America with its "Natives" waiting to be discovered.


Right. And "'Redskin" is a term of honor. People in the DMV Shoulst refrain from sharing their "knowledge" of Native Americans.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 08:45     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:op, please think this through. If your kids have no real cultural affiliation to a tribe, this could backfire badly. What is going to happen when they show up and are invited to join a cultural group and other people realize what they have done? Also, if the admissions committee figures out your game, it may very well hurt your chances of admission. And if they think you are lying, word might get around to other schools.

If you have no real connection to a tribe, please don't do this. It is offensive and will be seen as such if it is ever revealed.


This is a silly scare tactic. Students are inundated with club opportunities. If invited and not comfortable, don't join No one is going to "check you out" like a Gestapo agent confirming ethnicity.


Look, claiming ON PAPER to be an ethnicity that the OP's child has no real connection to is definitely setting the child up for potential problems. The fact is, people who find out about this are going to see it for exactly what it is: appropriating the status of an extremely disadvantaged group for your own benefit. When and if that comes out, it could be very bad, and the risks outweigh whatever boost she'll get in admissions. I also think it is likely that the admissions officer would figure it out and ding her for being dishonest.

This all assumes that OP has no real connection to a tribe. If you do have a real connection and it is part of your and YOUR CHILD'S identity, then go ahead and put it down. But if you just have one great grandparent you think was Cherokee? Don't.


Stop. You are embarrassing yourself. The question is ethnicity, not tribal membership. If someone has Native American heritage they shouldn't hestitate to identify as Native American.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 08:01     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Btw "Indian" is frequently used by native americans to describe themselves.


And the n word is used by blacks to describe themselves, but that doesn't make it less vulgar


I'm interested to know you are, PP. Pretty much anyone who has had any contact with Native Americans knows that "Indian" is a common term for self-reference (although the actual tribe is preferred). It is MUCH different than the n-word. "Native American" is arguably just as incorrect since it implies that America was always America and was just waiting there as America with its "Natives" waiting to be discovered.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 07:56     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:op, please think this through. If your kids have no real cultural affiliation to a tribe, this could backfire badly. What is going to happen when they show up and are invited to join a cultural group and other people realize what they have done? Also, if the admissions committee figures out your game, it may very well hurt your chances of admission. And if they think you are lying, word might get around to other schools.

If you have no real connection to a tribe, please don't do this. It is offensive and will be seen as such if it is ever revealed.


This is a silly scare tactic. Students are inundated with club opportunities. If invited and not comfortable, don't join No one is going to "check you out" like a Gestapo agent confirming ethnicity.


Look, claiming ON PAPER to be an ethnicity that the OP's child has no real connection to is definitely setting the child up for potential problems. The fact is, people who find out about this are going to see it for exactly what it is: appropriating the status of an extremely disadvantaged group for your own benefit. When and if that comes out, it could be very bad, and the risks outweigh whatever boost she'll get in admissions. I also think it is likely that the admissions officer would figure it out and ding her for being dishonest.

This all assumes that OP has no real connection to a tribe. If you do have a real connection and it is part of your and YOUR CHILD'S identity, then go ahead and put it down. But if you just have one great grandparent you think was Cherokee? Don't.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2014 07:46     Subject: At what point is URM status finally determined?
Our DD is adopted from Guatemala. We know a number of families who check off the "Native American" box on apps believing that it applies to them. I think the connection is tenuous at best.