Anonymous wrote:Middle school parent and HYPS legacy parent. I have one question for current applicants with strong credentials, or their parents. When I went through the process (at a school not unlike the W schools), the counselor seemed uninterested in supporting anyone applying to multiple highly competitive schools. I don't expect or need a lot of support or advice, but I do care that DC isn't disadvantaged by any official or unofficial policies on where one can apply (mainly, I just want the counselor' recommendation to be an honest assessment).

Is this something to be concerned about? Especially in MCPS?

I'd move your question to the College forum. Lots of people post about MCPS college counseling there.

Anonymous wrote:Is it true most independent school college counselors limit the number of applications to around 8?

No, Maret just said 10-12 was norm, and some applied more.

Interesting article in the NY Times ("the Upshot") with a reassuring message that it's easier to get into A top school (as opposed to any one particular top school that you focus on):

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/upshot/for-accomplished-students-reaching-a-top-college-isnt-actually-that-hard.html?hpw&rref=education&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region®ion=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well&_r=0

Having read it the article, there are some truisms that I'd agree with, namely that the acceptance rate itself is not the whole story, at least in the sense that an individual's chance of acceptance to Harvard is unlikely to be 6%. Some unqualified applicants will have 0% chance of admissions, others (even leaving out legacies and athletes, say) will have a much higher percentage -- maybe 20%, say, or 30%, if their grades/scores are in a certain range.

However, the article defines "top schools" as the 113 schools given a selectivity rating of 1 by Barron's. While I would say this is accurate in a meta sense because you can get a great education at all of those schools, the fact remains that a typical NW DC private school parent does not see Harvey Mudd and Harvard (both of which are treated equally under the model described in the article) as equal. Other Barron's selectivity 1 schools include schools such as Villanova, Franklin and Marshall, Lehigh, Lafayette, University of Rochester, University of Miami, Reed, etc.

Nor does the article capture the fact that a generation ago, international applications were only a small piece of the puzzle. Now schools such as the Ivies are 20% international, at a time when they generally have NOT expanded size by 20%, thus functionally shrinking the number of slots.

But, an interesting read.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As our child is entering high school, I hear so much dissatisfaction from parents at most schools with their respective school's college advising program. I suspect much of this is due to unrealistic expectations from a generation of parents who came up in a different era. But I am wondering if there are any local private schools with well respected college counseling programs that seem to satisfy the parents/students at their school?

Why don't the school advisors explain how things have changed in order to modulate expectations. For example my daughter was a sophomore before I learned about athletic recruiting. She was senior when I learned that division 1 school varsity athletes can't be premed because the practices interfere with the labs. Did anyone learn this from the counselor and if so when we're they told?

They do talk about things have changed -- that's a very frequent subject of conversation, so far as I can tell -- the issue appears to be more whether people can hear the message.

For athletic recruiting, it differs by the sport so there is no "one size fits all" speech for college counselors to give (for example, the timing of commitments varies by the sport), although there are some commonalities about things like the NCAA clearinghouse that counselors should be familiar with. It is often best to check with the high school and/or club coach to learn the ins and outs about recruiting. Re: what majors Division I athletes are allowed to be, that will depend on the school and sport (for example, the Ivies still accommodate pre-meds) and I'm surprised you think the independent school college counselor should be briefing you in depth on the college experience as a Division I athlete at a particular school. That's one of the reasons student-athletes visit campuses, so they can learn about the trade-offs.

This was not our experience with our schools college counseling. They overestimated their abilities with connections at large schools which more kids seem to want to got to. Especially for competitive programs like engineering and business, they were not good about realistically giving chances for getting into good programs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it worth hiring a private counselor? Can they call the colleges on a students behalf?

We hired a private consultant in addition to what they do at school.

We got totally screwed by relying on the school for the transition from 8th grade to high school. We were lucky to land at this school. It is the perfect school for DD. DD got into this school only because we heard they had an opening over the summer. DD's former school did absolutely nothing to help us this process.

Yes, I'm anxious about the process and what happened to us earlier, so for our peace of mind, I felt we needed an outside opinion. She's been wonderful so far.

Her fees are around $4500.

Wow.

Bullis was outstanding.

Middle school parent and HYPS legacy parent. I have one question for current applicants with strong credentials, or their parents. When I went through the process (at a school not unlike the W schools), the counselor seemed uninterested in supporting anyone applying to multiple highly competitive schools. I don't expect or need a lot of support or advice, but I do care that DC isn't disadvantaged by any official or unofficial policies on where one can apply (mainly, I just want the counselor' recommendation to be an honest assessment).

Is this something to be concerned about? Especially in MCPS?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As our child is entering high school, I hear so much dissatisfaction from parents at most schools with their respective school's college advising program. I suspect much of this is due to unrealistic expectations from a generation of parents who came up in a different era. But I am wondering if there are any local private schools with well respected college counseling programs that seem to satisfy the parents/students at their school?

Why don't the school advisors explain how things have changed in order to modulate expectations. For example my daughter was a sophomore before I learned about athletic recruiting. She was senior when I learned that division 1 school varsity athletes can't be premed because the practices interfere with the labs. Did anyone learn this from the counselor and if so when we're they told?

They do talk about things have changed -- that's a very frequent subject of conversation, so far as I can tell -- the issue appears to be more whether people can hear the message.

For athletic recruiting, it differs by the sport so there is no "one size fits all" speech for college counselors to give (for example, the timing of commitments varies by the sport), although there are some commonalities about things like the NCAA clearinghouse that counselors should be familiar with. It is often best to check with the high school and/or club coach to learn the ins and outs about recruiting. Re: what majors Division I athletes are allowed to be, that will depend on the school and sport (for example, the Ivies still accommodate pre-meds) and I'm surprised you think the independent school college counselor should be briefing you in depth on the college experience as a Division I athlete at a particular school. That's one of the reasons student-athletes visit campuses, so they can learn about the trade-offs.

Anonymous wrote:As our child is entering high school, I hear so much dissatisfaction from parents at most schools with their respective school's college advising program. I suspect much of this is due to unrealistic expectations from a generation of parents who came up in a different era. But I am wondering if there are any local private schools with well respected college counseling programs that seem to satisfy the parents/students at their school?

Why don't the school advisors explain how things have changed in order to modulate expectations. For example my daughter was a sophomore before I learned about athletic recruiting. She was senior when I learned that division 1 school varsity athletes can't be premed because the practices interfere with the labs. Did anyone learn this from the counselor and if so when we're they told?

Anonymous wrote:Is it worth hiring a private counselor? Can they call the colleges on a students behalf?

They can be helpful as an extra pair of eyes on essays, and if for some reason you do not trust what you're being told by the school (or if you feel like your child is being overlooked in the process by someone with too large of a "caseload" for example) they offer a second opinion. However, given that they are retained by particular students, they do not have additional credibility with colleges and in general have less. So you are hiring them for their advice to you, but not for any extra back end influence.

Anonymous wrote:Is it worth hiring a private counselor? Can they call the colleges on a students behalf?

We hired a private consultant in addition to what they do at school.

We got totally screwed by relying on the school for the transition from 8th grade to high school. We were lucky to land at this school. It is the perfect school for DD. DD got into this school only because we heard they had an opening over the summer. DD's former school did absolutely nothing to help us this process.

Yes, I'm anxious about the process and what happened to us earlier, so for our peace of mind, I felt we needed an outside opinion. She's been wonderful so far.

Her fees are around $4500.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - private schools limit applications. I have also heard firsthand that they also limit which schools certain kids apply to -- e.g., if they four stellar kids and one wants Harvard, another Stanford, the third Princeton, the fourth Yale, they will try hard to keep all those kids from applying to each other's schools to avoid what happens if one of those kids gets in everywhere -- but only really wanted one spot --- and the other three are left out in the cold.

This definitely happens...for those who refuse to believe it...you are only kidding yourself. They will "steer" top candidates so as to avoid multiple acceptances for one of the students....

Not saying this this never happens. With two kids through the process at an area private, this just has not been our experience. Over 15 kids in my latest daughter's class applied early to a single Ivy. All of the kids feel supported in the process. Historically, the school has placed 3 to 5 kids successfully at this particular college, with a high-water mark of 11 coming a few years back. So, very little steering and no curtailment of support for reach candidates. Our counselors have taken the view that with highly selective colleges it is impossible to predict success with a high level of accuracy, and that many times a candidate will surprise you on the upside.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - private schools limit applications. I have also heard firsthand that they also limit which schools certain kids apply to -- e.g., if they four stellar kids and one wants Harvard, another Stanford, the third Princeton, the fourth Yale, they will try hard to keep all those kids from applying to each other's schools to avoid what happens if one of those kids gets in everywhere -- but only really wanted one spot --- and the other three are left out in the cold.

This definitely happens...for those who refuse to believe it...you are only kidding yourself. They will "steer" top candidates so as to avoid multiple acceptances for one of the students....

Blah blah more rumor mongering. 7% acceptance rate means less than 1 in 10 kids get into Harvard. That stat, not a conspiracy in the college counseling office, is why Junior didn't get in.

Um....Junior did get in.....LOL.

We did not use a college counselor. However, we actually brainstormed about what DC wanted to do, what schools were good for that course and worked backwards to what grades, EC, courses she needed to have in order to get into school. Did the research in 9th grade.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes - private schools limit applications. I have also heard firsthand that they also limit which schools certain kids apply to -- e.g., if they four stellar kids and one wants Harvard, another Stanford, the third Princeton, the fourth Yale, they will try hard to keep all those kids from applying to each other's schools to avoid what happens if one of those kids gets in everywhere -- but only really wanted one spot --- and the other three are left out in the cold.

This definitely happens...for those who refuse to believe it...you are only kidding yourself. They will "steer" top candidates so as to avoid multiple acceptances for one of the students....

Blah blah more rumor mongering. 7% acceptance rate means less than 1 in 10 kids get into Harvard. That stat, not a conspiracy in the college counseling office, is why Junior didn't get in.