Anonymous
07/31/2014 11:41
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:OP, this is exactly what happened to my first marriage. And no, I didn't bother with the request/option of an open marriage before asking for the divorce. After fifteen years of passive-aggressive (outwardly saying yes, but really meaning no, and never doing anything about it) resistance to all my attempts at and requests for a better sex life, I recognized there was no point in wasting even more time going through yet another round of BS.
She was pretty clear from the get go of our relationship that 100% emotional and physical monogamy was the only thing she wanted. If she had been coerced - under the threat of divorce - to have an "open marriage" it would have been in word only, and would have opened a whole new level of passive aggressive BS designed to make me so miserable that living sexless would be preferable. In all fairness: living that way would have probably involved living in constant shame and misery for her as well - a kind of in-your-face "you're inadequate" message. I wanted a sex life, not to torture my wife or myself.
For me the issue was easier because kids weren't in it, but don't let the BS "for the children" crowd cow/guilt you into staying in a miserable situation. Living a crippled, cramped and unhappy life is not doing your kids any favors...it's teaching them that this is what marriage is...missing romantic love, living as roomates where you are merely tolerating each other. You are not doing your kids any favors. You can put them first as well as yourself.
Did your first wife resist the divorce at all?
Anonymous
07/31/2014 11:12
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
OP, you do both sound like good people. You feel bad and she feels bad. You are both lost and need a counselor to help you see if you can find your way back to each other before you give up. Even if you have given up. What have you got to lose? Your kids have a lot to lose, and your wife may end up heartbroken, because she didn't even realize how bad it was for you.
I've been through rough and rougher patches, and a lot of it has to do with how having kids affects people, especially women. Like most of us, you were not prepared for this phase of your life to be so tough. Your wife sounds like she really doesn't get it. She's still in "young kids" mode, and you want more focus again on sex and being a couple. Her drive may have taken a hit, so she's not feeling the urges and immediacy you are. She does not understand your side of it. The ways you've tried to show her haven't worked.
In addition to counseling for you together, to see where things stand and to make it very clear to her that things need to change, she should get a few physical things sorted out, as many things lower a woman's sex drive.
Just so you know, this comes from a woman who normally has a high sex drive, so I get the urgency and exasperation you feel. I've also had strange and frustrating phases where my sex drive lowered to near nothing after one of my pregnancies. I've been on both sides of the bed.
I've been through rough and rougher patches, and a lot of it has to do with how having kids affects people, especially women. Like most of us, you were not prepared for this phase of your life to be so tough. Your wife sounds like she really doesn't get it. She's still in "young kids" mode, and you want more focus again on sex and being a couple. Her drive may have taken a hit, so she's not feeling the urges and immediacy you are. She does not understand your side of it. The ways you've tried to show her haven't worked.
In addition to counseling for you together, to see where things stand and to make it very clear to her that things need to change, she should get a few physical things sorted out, as many things lower a woman's sex drive.
Just so you know, this comes from a woman who normally has a high sex drive, so I get the urgency and exasperation you feel. I've also had strange and frustrating phases where my sex drive lowered to near nothing after one of my pregnancies. I've been on both sides of the bed.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 10:30
Subject: Re:Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
How long have you been reading these boards? This are the biggest group of sexist hags you will ever meet. It is no wonder most people are miserable on here.
I think the issue here is that you assume every response you don't like is from a woman. That's a stupid assumption. I've left relationships with low drive men and women. It's not a he vs she issue.
These boards are heavily dominated by women. I'm a woman you are responding to, BTW.
Your gender is irrelevant. Your assumptions are still stupid.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 10:00
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:He came here asking for advice, talking like sex was the only issue. When people offered him advice on how to fix the problem, he admitted that he's over it and checked out. No one is telling him to stay in a sexless marriage.
+1
Anonymous
07/31/2014 10:00
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
OP, as a woman (who happens to like sex), listen to what 21:53 is saying. It's not clear to me whether you've had conversations with your wife only about your sex life, or whether you've also discussed the emotional intimacy and connection in your marriage. For many women - especially when we're in a serious relationship dealing with the good, bad & ugly that goes with that - we need to feel good emotionally about our partner in order to have passion for him. It could be that emotional intimacy is lacking and that is causing your wife's lack of desire. Or it could be that after years of having these discussions, you two have fallen into a trap of you complaining, her feeling bad about herself, which makes her avoid sex, which makes you more unhappy. In either case, couples therapy could help.
On the other hand, I believe that married spouses owe it to each other to try their best to meet each others sexual and emotional needs. If she's refusing to do this, and if she refuses to get help to change for the good of the marriage, then I don't believe it would be selfish for you to ask for a divorce.
It's hard to tell from what you've written whether the issue is no sex vs. differences in the frequency of sex; whether there are medical or other fixable issues effecting her desire, and whether you've discussed that possibility with her; and whether either of you have checked out in terms of emotional intimacy.
On the other hand, I believe that married spouses owe it to each other to try their best to meet each others sexual and emotional needs. If she's refusing to do this, and if she refuses to get help to change for the good of the marriage, then I don't believe it would be selfish for you to ask for a divorce.
It's hard to tell from what you've written whether the issue is no sex vs. differences in the frequency of sex; whether there are medical or other fixable issues effecting her desire, and whether you've discussed that possibility with her; and whether either of you have checked out in terms of emotional intimacy.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 08:47
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
He came here asking for advice, talking like sex was the only issue. When people offered him advice on how to fix the problem, he admitted that he's over it and checked out. No one is telling him to stay in a sexless marriage.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 08:16
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
OP, this is exactly what happened to my first marriage. And no, I didn't bother with the request/option of an open marriage before asking for the divorce. After fifteen years of passive-aggressive (outwardly saying yes, but really meaning no, and never doing anything about it) resistance to all my attempts at and requests for a better sex life, I recognized there was no point in wasting even more time going through yet another round of BS.
She was pretty clear from the get go of our relationship that 100% emotional and physical monogamy was the only thing she wanted. If she had been coerced - under the threat of divorce - to have an "open marriage" it would have been in word only, and would have opened a whole new level of passive aggressive BS designed to make me so miserable that living sexless would be preferable. In all fairness: living that way would have probably involved living in constant shame and misery for her as well - a kind of in-your-face "you're inadequate" message. I wanted a sex life, not to torture my wife or myself.
For me the issue was easier because kids weren't in it, but don't let the BS "for the children" crowd cow/guilt you into staying in a miserable situation. Living a crippled, cramped and unhappy life is not doing your kids any favors...it's teaching them that this is what marriage is...missing romantic love, living as roomates where you are merely tolerating each other. You are not doing your kids any favors. You can put them first as well as yourself.
She was pretty clear from the get go of our relationship that 100% emotional and physical monogamy was the only thing she wanted. If she had been coerced - under the threat of divorce - to have an "open marriage" it would have been in word only, and would have opened a whole new level of passive aggressive BS designed to make me so miserable that living sexless would be preferable. In all fairness: living that way would have probably involved living in constant shame and misery for her as well - a kind of in-your-face "you're inadequate" message. I wanted a sex life, not to torture my wife or myself.
For me the issue was easier because kids weren't in it, but don't let the BS "for the children" crowd cow/guilt you into staying in a miserable situation. Living a crippled, cramped and unhappy life is not doing your kids any favors...it's teaching them that this is what marriage is...missing romantic love, living as roomates where you are merely tolerating each other. You are not doing your kids any favors. You can put them first as well as yourself.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 07:45
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Sadly, they seem well-matched -- she can't be bothered to work on their sex life and he can't be bothered to work on their marriage.
OP, what you're looking for now is an excuse. If you're bored in your marriage and want out, admit it. Don't put it all on the sex.
OP, what you're looking for now is an excuse. If you're bored in your marriage and want out, admit it. Don't put it all on the sex.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 07:37
Subject: Re:Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
What if the wife was the one who wants an open marriage? Going on 11+ years of very limited sex. More than one time we have gone 14 months without sex. And I know everyone will say he has been cheating. He hasn't. He knows I am not dumb and would figure that out and I would take him apart. He also knows that his child, a daughter, would likely find out so cheating is unlikely. I have come very close to suggesting an open marriage and may still. I understand how the OP feels. I work FT so I can support myself. I just don't want to blow my kid's life to kingdom come if I don't have to.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 07:32
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
OP, this could be my marriage, or what I mean to say is that you could be my DH. My DH is so very angry, so very angry. We'll see where the marriage goes, after 30 years. On counseling, I think you should try, but you may know after 4-5 sessions whether it will work. I'm not saying only give it 4-5x, but that you'll see whether it devolves into tirades by one or both of you, and you'll get a sense of her heart. And don't go into it thinking it is all about fixing her.
One thing to think about is whether you want to just "do it" or whether you require her to have passion. If the former, perhaps set up a couple of times a week where sex is expected. She can feel she's done her job, and you get "it." If you want her to love it, that is tougher. (Folks will take umbrage at this, but it is a practical solution if you're unsure about divorce.)
Final point: the grass may not be greener on the other side. Good luck.
One thing to think about is whether you want to just "do it" or whether you require her to have passion. If the former, perhaps set up a couple of times a week where sex is expected. She can feel she's done her job, and you get "it." If you want her to love it, that is tougher. (Folks will take umbrage at this, but it is a practical solution if you're unsure about divorce.)
Final point: the grass may not be greener on the other side. Good luck.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 06:31
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the ethical thing would be to find some way to work this out. Leaving a SAHM and 2 kids because your sex life went downhill seems pretty shitty.
But denying your spouse sex and affection is also shitty.
The kids come first. It's the ethical position.
Kids can come first in their open marriage.
Kids can come first after their divorce.
Kids can come first when the SAHM wakes up from her selfish lazy fog, realizes the marriage is about to end, and she then chooses to participate in healing their sexual relationship.
But, OP doesn't want to heal the relationship, which leaves him with very few options.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 06:00
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the ethical thing would be to find some way to work this out. Leaving a SAHM and 2 kids because your sex life went downhill seems pretty shitty.
But denying your spouse sex and affection is also shitty.
The kids come first. It's the ethical position.
Kids can come first in their open marriage.
Kids can come first after their divorce.
Kids can come first when the SAHM wakes up from her selfish lazy fog, realizes the marriage is about to end, and she then chooses to participate in healing their sexual relationship.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 05:51
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think the ethical thing would be to find some way to work this out. Leaving a SAHM and 2 kids because your sex life went downhill seems pretty shitty.
But denying your spouse sex and affection is also shitty.
The kids come first. It's the ethical position.
Anonymous
07/31/2014 05:26
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:While it may just be the statistical odds of getting divorced, but I find it notable that the five people I personally know who had threesomes or open marriages all divorced within two years of this "solution".
So, definitely a small sample and one can expect that 50% of their friends would divorce anyway, but these women were shocked and devastated by their divorces in a way that I had never seen before. It's left me suspicious that polyamory is the cure for an ailing marriage.
I find it odd that people feel compelled to share their intimate details with you.
I've been married 18years and over the course of our marriage we have had a few FFM sexual experiences.they don't often present themselves, but it happens. I don't share this with anyone. On the outside we look like a typical married couple. Its nobody's business our sex lives.
Hot
Anonymous
07/31/2014 05:22
Subject: Serve spouse with divorce papers or ask for open marriage?
Anonymous wrote:While it may just be the statistical odds of getting divorced, but I find it notable that the five people I personally know who had threesomes or open marriages all divorced within two years of this "solution".
So, definitely a small sample and one can expect that 50% of their friends would divorce anyway, but these women were shocked and devastated by their divorces in a way that I had never seen before. It's left me suspicious that polyamory is the cure for an ailing marriage.
I find it odd that people feel compelled to share their intimate details with you.
I've been married 18years and over the course of our marriage we have had a few FFM sexual experiences.they don't often present themselves, but it happens. I don't share this with anyone. On the outside we look like a typical married couple. Its nobody's business our sex lives.