Anonymous wrote:My mom does that and she truly is a super nice/non racist person. It's just how she tells stories. It does make me uncomfortable, though.

Ditto, both my mom and my MIL do it (both are white, as am I). As in, "I took Granddaughter to the park today and we saw an Asian lady and another lady and some birds." I don't think it's intended in any negative way, but I always wonder why they think it's relevant to the story. My gut feeling is that they don't see or don't expect to see someone of that description on a regular basis, so it stands out in their minds.

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Anonymous wrote:I find it makes for more descriptive story telling. Nothing more. Why be ashamed of our differences?

this is pretty much what I was thinking before I even opened the thread. It's a descriptor that paints the picture of the story. Do you say someone lives in a house or do you say they live in a mansion, a dump, a town house, a modern house etc. Description is what makes the listener keep listening.

Just curious, how often to you point out that someone is white when you tell a story? Or do you only point out when someone is black or Asian or Indian? And if so, why is that?

Not PP, but ALL THE TIME, I mention details about a person. I don't say "white," but I say other irrelevant details, like "New Jersey Italian" or "Boston Irish," even if it is sort of irrelevant, but just to recreate the scene.

Sometimes people include racial details because they are saying something racist. But sometimes they are just including details for the sake of including details. I wouldn't up and label someone racist because they mentioned a person's race/nationality/ethnic makeup. If we get to the point where you can't even mention a person's race without being called racist, then we have actually gone backwards. I know people who will go out of their way NOT to mention race, and it strikes me that they have issues. Racism and prejudice are bad things, but being uncomfortable about race or afraid to mention it also seems to me to be a bad thing.

Anonymous wrote:My mom does that and she truly is a super nice/non racist person. It's just how she tells stories. It does make me uncomfortable, though.

+1 I know lots of people who mention all kinds of details (irrelevant though they may be) because they are trying to recreate the scene.

I agree with the George Carlin poster. It's obvious to me when someone mentions race/nationality as a detail versus mentioning it as a racist statement (like, of course, that person did X, they're Y).

I think it says a lot about OP that it makes a difference. For example, if someone mentions that the lady in their story is British, would you even think twice? No, it's just a detail. But if they mention that the person is Chinese, then it's a sign of racism?

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Anonymous wrote:I find it makes for more descriptive story telling. Nothing more. Why be ashamed of our differences?

this is pretty much what I was thinking before I even opened the thread. It's a descriptor that paints the picture of the story. Do you say someone lives in a house or do you say they live in a mansion, a dump, a town house, a modern house etc. Description is what makes the listener keep listening.

Just curious, how often to you point out that someone is white when you tell a story? Or do you only point out when someone is black or Asian or Indian? And if so, why is that?

Anonymous wrote:If they're just talking it feels more weird than uncomfortable. Like why did you throw that in when it's not relevant to what you're telling me? But uncomfortable when they're angry or being manipulative or negative and throw it in as a justification or explanation why they're saying what they're saying.

Yeah, like my grandparents, who like to identify the race and religion of any person they're talking about who is not white and Jewish. Sometimes it has something to do with the story, but usually it doesn't. So I'm sitting there going "ok, why do I care if the guy was Muslim/black/whatever" because I know, from experience, that they don't add those details when talking about their interactions with other Jews. They're not very descriptive people usually!

This is what OP is referring to, I assume. Frankly, if I hear someone my age (early 30s) describe a person's race, I assume it's because it's somehow relevant or that the description is interesting in some way. When I hear someone of my grandparents' age mention race (or religion), I assume there is some sort of prejudice there -- even if it's the mildest form, like just noticing and feeling the need to comment that the person is different from them.

If they're just talking it feels more weird than uncomfortable. Like why did you throw that in when it's not relevant to what you're telling me? But uncomfortable when they're angry or being manipulative or negative and throw it in as a justification or explanation why they're saying what they're saying.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. The people who start a story with "this black guy comes up to me and says...." Those people are racist. They may not specifically hate black people, but they are racist.

No, they're telling you a story, and including some description. If they say a child, they may clarify that the child was 5 instead of 15 (since that will give you a different mental image).

You're referring to white privilege and the default assumption that everyone is white unless you specify otherwise. That's cultural, not racist. (In other parts of the world, they have other defaults, unsurprisingly.)

NP here. Except that whiteness rarely gets described in these situations (when the teller is white). It's someone who is black, or Asian, etc. Why is whiteness the default? This is something that has always bugged me. I remember reading the local paper in high school and wondering why it was pointed out if someone was black but not if they were white. If you find it important to describe someone's race when telling story, make it everyone's race.

Signed,

A white person

I think you will find most people won't use the race of every person in the story, even when it is their own race, to be descriptive, with both positive and negative being applied equally for every race mentioned in the story. So if you are interjecting race into the story for only one race when the story could be told without racial descriptions I assume you are trying to make race relevant. If the rude waitress was white and you are a different race, are you hinting the rudeness was racially motivated or you think most people that are rude are white? Otherwise there would be no reason to point this out as I don't need to physically be able to identify waitress for any reason. Obviously this example could be used with other races and sexual orientation.

My only exception is if the person was born between the turn of the century and WWI, I know the would has changed a lot since then and I give some leeway.

I personally don't find it derogatory when it is used to add description. For me it is like saying the tall guy, the girl with long dark hair, the one with red pants.
I was once talking about something very trivial to another mom, and she asked me if there was any kid we knew in my son's soccer team. I said 'yes, Marlo', 'who?' 'Larlo, the black boy with the white mom', totally without thinking, I just wanted to find a way she would definitely know who I was talking about. This is simply a boy whose dad is AA and mom is very white, and she knows them.
Since then, this mom avoids me.
I am not racist. At all. But I do watch my words now and always search for other ways (often longer) to describe people. I am from Europe, and there this would not be a problem, and we do call AAs black and it is not derogatory like some people seem to find it here.

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If it's so necessary to paint a picture, why is race often the only descriptor given?

A black guy cut in front of me in the grocery store vs
A black guy in a red striped sweater with grapes in his silver cart cut in front of me in lane 3 of the grocery store

It isn't only race - you also say it was a guy. That isn't relevant either. Just a descriptor to add context to the story. Just like a black guy or blond lady or young child are also descriptors

It's like you're deliberately missing the PP's point.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. The people who start a story with "this black guy comes up to me and says...." Those people are racist. They may not specifically hate black people, but they are racist.

So, you personally don't see that a person is white, black, Hispanic, or whatever? I can't imagine not noticing something so obvious. I miss eye color a bit. But not hair or skin color.

Agree.

I have never ever heard anyone say, "So, I was standing in line and this brown haired lady..."

Random, irrelevant eye color, hair color observations are rare. However random, irrelevant skin color or race observations are quite common but only if the subject is non white.

Exactly.

Really? You have never heard anyone say - she is over by the lady with the blond hair?

That wasn't the PP's point. If you're pointing out something like you mentioned, of course it makes sense to mention race or other physical descriptions. "My son is the Hispanic kid." "Do you see the poster by the tall man with blond hair?" "The teacher is the black woman next to the door." It's when race is absolutely irrelevant to the story that it's weird. "I was in line at the grocery store and the Asian woman in front of me dropped her wallet."

It is irrelevant in that it matters not if the woman was Asian, European, African, etc... but it matters as an adjective describing the scene you are telling a story about. It paints the picture. People add details all the time that are irrelevant to the main point but provide context and description. It is just part of how most people talk. Short/tall, hair color, pregnant, with 3 little kids, etc... details that often could be left out but aren't. Creates a visual narrative to accompany the story.

If you look at kids story books - they are illustrated. Not just the main points but lots of details to add context and description to the story. People will be given races (or varying skin shades and hair colors) in illustrations - even if irrelevant to the story.

If it's so necessary to paint a picture, why is race often the only descriptor given?

A black guy cut in front of me in the grocery store vs
A black guy in a red striped sweater with grapes in his silver cart cut in front of me in lane 3 of the grocery store

It isn't only race - you also say it was a guy. That isn't relevant either. Just a descriptor to add context to the story. Just like a black guy or blond lady or young child are also descriptors

how does race add context to a story?

White guilt

Anonymous wrote:I find it makes for more descriptive story telling. Nothing more. Why be ashamed of our differences?

this is pretty much what I was thinking before I even opened the thread. It's a descriptor that paints the picture of the story. Do you say someone lives in a house or do you say they live in a mansion, a dump, a town house, a modern house etc. Description is what makes the listener keep listening.

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. The people who start a story with "this black guy comes up to me and says...." Those people are racist. They may not specifically hate black people, but they are racist.

So, you personally don't see that a person is white, black, Hispanic, or whatever? I can't imagine not noticing something so obvious. I miss eye color a bit. But not hair or skin color.

Agree.

I have never ever heard anyone say, "So, I was standing in line and this brown haired lady..."

Random, irrelevant eye color, hair color observations are rare. However random, irrelevant skin color or race observations are quite common but only if the subject is non white.

Exactly.

Really? You have never heard anyone say - she is over by the lady with the blond hair?

That wasn't the PP's point. If you're pointing out something like you mentioned, of course it makes sense to mention race or other physical descriptions. "My son is the Hispanic kid." "Do you see the poster by the tall man with blond hair?" "The teacher is the black woman next to the door." It's when race is absolutely irrelevant to the story that it's weird. "I was in line at the grocery store and the Asian woman in front of me dropped her wallet."

It is irrelevant in that it matters not if the woman was Asian, European, African, etc... but it matters as an adjective describing the scene you are telling a story about. It paints the picture. People add details all the time that are irrelevant to the main point but provide context and description. It is just part of how most people talk. Short/tall, hair color, pregnant, with 3 little kids, etc... details that often could be left out but aren't. Creates a visual narrative to accompany the story.

If you look at kids story books - they are illustrated. Not just the main points but lots of details to add context and description to the story. People will be given races (or varying skin shades and hair colors) in illustrations - even if irrelevant to the story.

If it's so necessary to paint a picture, why is race often the only descriptor given?

A black guy cut in front of me in the grocery store vs
A black guy in a red striped sweater with grapes in his silver cart cut in front of me in lane 3 of the grocery store

It isn't only race - you also say it was a guy. That isn't relevant either. Just a descriptor to add context to the story. Just like a black guy or blond lady or young child are also descriptors

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Anonymous wrote:Yes. The people who start a story with "this black guy comes up to me and says...." Those people are racist. They may not specifically hate black people, but they are racist.

So, you personally don't see that a person is white, black, Hispanic, or whatever? I can't imagine not noticing something so obvious. I miss eye color a bit. But not hair or skin color.

Agree.

I have never ever heard anyone say, "So, I was standing in line and this brown haired lady..."

Random, irrelevant eye color, hair color observations are rare. However random, irrelevant skin color or race observations are quite common but only if the subject is non white.

Exactly.

Really? You have never heard anyone say - she is over by the lady with the blond hair?

That wasn't the PP's point. If you're pointing out something like you mentioned, of course it makes sense to mention race or other physical descriptions. "My son is the Hispanic kid." "Do you see the poster by the tall man with blond hair?" "The teacher is the black woman next to the door." It's when race is absolutely irrelevant to the story that it's weird. "I was in line at the grocery store and the Asian woman in front of me dropped her wallet."

It is irrelevant in that it matters not if the woman was Asian, European, African, etc... but it matters as an adjective describing the scene you are telling a story about. It paints the picture. People add details all the time that are irrelevant to the main point but provide context and description. It is just part of how most people talk. Short/tall, hair color, pregnant, with 3 little kids, etc... details that often could be left out but aren't. Creates a visual narrative to accompany the story.

If you look at kids story books - they are illustrated. Not just the main points but lots of details to add context and description to the story. People will be given races (or varying skin shades and hair colors) in illustrations - even if irrelevant to the story.

If it's so necessary to paint a picture, why is race often the only descriptor given?

A black guy cut in front of me in the grocery store vs
A black guy in a red striped sweater with grapes in his silver cart cut in front of me in lane 3 of the grocery store

Yes. Unless it has some relevance to the story I don't understand it.