Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:well clearly, she doesn't want him because he's a spoiled, entitled asshole.

THIS is so why I never, ever want to be married again. I only do it on MY terms nowadays. And I love every second of it!

So him wanting sex with his wife more than 3 times in 8+ weeks (this includes her 10 day trip) makes him spoiled/entitled asshole?

No! His attitude about the problem, his sending her a freakin EXCEL file, when she is on her way out of town, demonstrates that he is a world class jerk. If he would do those things, he must be really charming!

It's a question of what came first. Did a lack of sex make him an ass? Or did his being an ass cause her not to desire him? No matter what the answer, a bitchy spreadsheet is not the way to get laid, or to have a happy marriage.

Dear Obvious Mensa member,

Did it ever occur to you for second that perhaps his "attitude" about the problem was because of the lame excuse? Do you think that this Excel sheet tells the complete story? Or, within that genius mind of yours, did the possibility pop into your head that this was happening WAAAYY before this for a VERRRY long time before he finally decided to make a list? In reality, this is also a journal of sorts. If a woman came and posted a journal of her abysmal sex life, you bitches would be out there calling for his head. The only way to solve a problem is to evaluate things fairly.

You kind of realized this halfway into your post. You came so close to redeeming yourself and not me thinking that you were a complete idiot. A partial one nonetheless, but still an idiot. You wrote, "No matter what the answer...".....really??!?!?!? No matter WHAT? Seriously, such thinking shows how closed minded you are. How about blaming the lame-ass excuses? Never once was the reason..."You're a jerk! that is why I dont want to have sex with you, etc etc." Instead the recorded answers were all lame. Believe it or not, professor, lame excuses are hurtful if those are the only reasons. Oh why, you say? Finally, a good question from the likes of someone of your miniscule intellect (I'm trying to be nice here). It is because he was apparently trying in every way, but to only get shot down by these lame ass excuses. And though he is not a perfect person, he should be at least afforded the reasons as to why he was being rejected by the one person who made him believe that he should only be having sex with her.

Stop perpetuating women have no fault in relationships. You probably feel that you're awesome. Perhaps. But the essence of your post and your "thinking" ends up being the very bane of many men's sex lives, and consequently their marriages.

Take some time to reflect in life, about life, for your life. You'll be better for it.

I have few girlfriends anymore because they all complain about how their husbands want sex all the time. After many girls nights out being silient, I finally had enough to drink where I said, hey, I'd sleep with my husband every night instead of a couple times a month, but I can't get any. Nothing shuts up conversation like one woman in the crowd being denied regular sex.

Anonymous wrote:I have little doubt that she's cheating during the 11-day trip.

doubt it. most women don't want sex

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This brings to mind that scene from Annie Hall where the therapist asks how often they have sex. Wood Allen says, "hardly ever, like, you know, three times a week." And Diane Keaton says, "CONSTANTLY, like three times a week."

Sadly, back when we were on the once or twice a month plan, my wife thought that was "constantly." Then she tried to get on the once a week plan and agreed that I could count the frequency to keep track, but not bug her for sex. Guess what, we're nowhere close to once a week. But I love our children, so here I am; miserable.

That sucks. Sorry, man.

Right there with you my friend ... sorry to hear it.

Alright men. Huddle up. Provided that you know you arent a bunch of pricks, but instead are loving partners to your spouse and aren't getting any, we need to change the culture where it is okay for women to simply deny sex. I want women to enjoy it too, that is why we all need to get the message across that they have to make time for it to make a relationship fulfilling. Otherwise, they should have married their brothers.

Also, the fucking goddamn movie business ruined it for us. How many movies tell us men that WE have to do the romancing while the women are already perfect in every respect? That shit aint true. Women have to engage, and they are as imperfect as us men.

Anonymous wrote:Jeez, I'm getting rejected 95% of the time so what is that guy complaining about?

5% success rate? Dude, that is terrible. If you're not complaining you basically are admitting you're getting it elsewhere.

No man accepts 95% rejection rate emotionally and physically.

Get a new wife.

Anonymous wrote:I am a wife who denies sex for made-up, trivial reasons. But the real reason is my husband's lack of hygiene. He has bad breath and crotch BO, and it infuriates me. I used to tell him to go take a shower and brush his teeth, but having to remind him really kills the mood for me. It is embarrassing and disappointing to me that I have to have this conversation over and over, with a grown man. It's like having a third child. And it's disrespectful, because no matter how many times I ask him, he never changes. So after about 100 times having the awkward bad breath conversation and dealing with oh-so-sensitive hurt feelings, eventually I just gave up. I just cannot stomach discussing his BO and halitosis every goddamn time he wants to get laid, so I make up trivial reasons. If he wants me to motivate for sex, he needs to motivate for hygiene, it's a two way street.

Asshole spreadsheet husband should take an inventory of his own shortcomings. I'm sure there are plenty.

It matters very much whether the excuse-giving, sex-denying spouse has been clear about the real problem in the past. If so, the sex demanding passive aggressive list keeping spouse is in the wrong. But if the excuses have always been lies, then the denying spouse is in the wrong.

I am a wife who denies sex for made-up, trivial reasons. But the real reason is my husband's lack of hygiene. He has bad breath and crotch BO, and it infuriates me. I used to tell him to go take a shower and brush his teeth, but having to remind him really kills the mood for me. It is embarrassing and disappointing to me that I have to have this conversation over and over, with a grown man. It's like having a third child. And it's disrespectful, because no matter how many times I ask him, he never changes. So after about 100 times having the awkward bad breath conversation and dealing with oh-so-sensitive hurt feelings, eventually I just gave up. I just cannot stomach discussing his BO and halitosis every goddamn time he wants to get laid, so I make up trivial reasons. If he wants me to motivate for sex, he needs to motivate for hygiene, it's a two way street.

Asshole spreadsheet husband should take an inventory of his own shortcomings. I'm sure there are plenty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It wasn't his last option but we can see even from the spreadsheet that he was trying to communicate. Every time he attempted to initiate sex with her, that was communicating that he desired her and desired sex with her. Those were honest communications.

She responded by saying that she didn't desire him and didn't desire sex with him because she didn't feel good or felt tired or felt like watching TV more than having sex with him or felt like not showering more than having sex with him. Those are often disingenuous communications from her, mostly rejecting him.

So they were communicating; just not in a healthy manner.

That's not the communication I'm talking about at all. I think it would be interesting to know what other conversations they had about these issues. I think it would be interesting to hear her perspective on why she said no so many times. I posted above that I was the denying spouse. We did talk about it. We talked about it a lot. It took a long time for me to really get right with the idea that it was a pattern, rather than a series of unrelated events that made me not feel sexy. It was weight gain. It was post-pregnancy sensation weirdness. It was exhaustion from being up multiple times in the night. It not feeling supported in a couple of career things. It was feeling resentful of his leisure activities and carefully guarding the few that I had left (reading, watching TV, etc.). All those things, when taken together, formed a pattern of overall disinterest in our sex life that was very hurtful to my husband. If he had petulantly sent me a spreadsheet listing the times I said no and the reasons I said no, I would have felt more resentful and unsupported and unsexy. I would not have felt inclined to communicate better about our situation. In the end what woke me up was my husband sadly listing the many things that he was doing privately to "try to make me want him again".

I feel bad for your poor ex. Reading this is tiring and depressing. You had all these issues, and yet you make it seem as though it was inevitable and even found a way to shift the blame to him ("feeling not supported in a couple of career things"). If you felt fat, you probably were, and should have taken steps to improve yourself and your overall self image. His desire for intimacy showed he still cared about you and wanted to have a normal sex life. You responded by using sex as a weapon to beat him up because in your mind he had leisure activities. How sad for him, and your children who are now in a broken home. You let him and your family down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It wasn't his last option but we can see even from the spreadsheet that he was trying to communicate. Every time he attempted to initiate sex with her, that was communicating that he desired her and desired sex with her. Those were honest communications.

She responded by saying that she didn't desire him and didn't desire sex with him because she didn't feel good or felt tired or felt like watching TV more than having sex with him or felt like not showering more than having sex with him. Those are often disingenuous communications from her, mostly rejecting him.

So they were communicating; just not in a healthy manner.

That's not the communication I'm talking about at all. I think it would be interesting to know what other conversations they had about these issues. I think it would be interesting to hear her perspective on why she said no so many times. I posted above that I was the denying spouse. We did talk about it. We talked about it a lot. It took a long time for me to really get right with the idea that it was a pattern, rather than a series of unrelated events that made me not feel sexy. It was weight gain. It was post-pregnancy sensation weirdness. It was exhaustion from being up multiple times in the night. It not feeling supported in a couple of career things. It was feeling resentful of his leisure activities and carefully guarding the few that I had left (reading, watching TV, etc.). All those things, when taken together, formed a pattern of overall disinterest in our sex life that was very hurtful to my husband. If he had petulantly sent me a spreadsheet listing the times I said no and the reasons I said no, I would have felt more resentful and unsupported and unsexy. I would not have felt inclined to communicate better about our situation. In the end what woke me up was my husband sadly listing the many things that he was doing privately to "try to make me want him again".

Sounds familiar. I've had similar conversations with my wife. Fortunately we were older than the spreadsheet couple when our sex life tanked. We had grown together over the years and had matured by parenting together. Still, I'm a little on the fence about how much even tactful conversations about our lackluster sex life have helped. I did what I could to give her space. I did what I could to address her stated concerns about what was affecting our sex life. I told her bluntly I didn't ever want to find myself on the receiving end of a "I love you but I'm not *in* love with you" conversation. She acknowledged a complete lack of desire. We ditched hormonal birth control.

So, we're both working on it. But after the conversations, sex seems more pressured. The sex that does happen feels more like duty sex. Because I see the IP logs from our home network, I know that probably once a month she watches porn before coming to bed and initiating sex (we probably have sex 3-4x per month -- up from about once a month during the infant/toddler years). I'm torn between being happy at the effort and being sad that it takes that for her to want me. I want sex with my wife, but I don't want to be a burden to her.

Other than the sex element, however, our marriage is solid and we like each other quite a bit. Guess we're a lot better off than the spreadsheet couple! And there's no help for it but to just keep grinding along, making an effort to improve our sex life.

Anonymous wrote:It wasn't his last option but we can see even from the spreadsheet that he was trying to communicate. Every time he attempted to initiate sex with her, that was communicating that he desired her and desired sex with her. Those were honest communications.

She responded by saying that she didn't desire him and didn't desire sex with him because she didn't feel good or felt tired or felt like watching TV more than having sex with him or felt like not showering more than having sex with him. Those are often disingenuous communications from her, mostly rejecting him.

So they were communicating; just not in a healthy manner.

That's not the communication I'm talking about at all. I think it would be interesting to know what other conversations they had about these issues. I think it would be interesting to hear her perspective on why she said no so many times. I posted above that I was the denying spouse. We did talk about it. We talked about it a lot. It took a long time for me to really get right with the idea that it was a pattern, rather than a series of unrelated events that made me not feel sexy. It was weight gain. It was post-pregnancy sensation weirdness. It was exhaustion from being up multiple times in the night. It not feeling supported in a couple of career things. It was feeling resentful of his leisure activities and carefully guarding the few that I had left (reading, watching TV, etc.). All those things, when taken together, formed a pattern of overall disinterest in our sex life that was very hurtful to my husband. If he had petulantly sent me a spreadsheet listing the times I said no and the reasons I said no, I would have felt more resentful and unsupported and unsexy. I would not have felt inclined to communicate better about our situation. In the end what woke me up was my husband sadly listing the many things that he was doing privately to "try to make me want him again".

It wasn't his last option but we can see even from the spreadsheet that he was trying to communicate. Every time he attempted to initiate sex with her, that was communicating that he desired her and desired sex with her. Those were honest communications.

She responded by saying that she didn't desire him and didn't desire sex with him because she didn't feel good or felt tired or felt like watching TV more than having sex with him or felt like not showering more than having sex with him. Those are often disingenuous communications from her, mostly rejecting him.

So they were communicating; just not in a healthy manner.

Anonymous wrote:My take on the spreadsheet is it was a last ditch attempt at making her realize it's an issue. He probably brought it up before only to be brushed off or to have her minimize and claim they had sex all the time. No doubt it's a jerk move but it was probably his last option. Damn, he's 26 and in a near sexless marriage! He's probably so close to done the ramifications of this thing don't concern him in the least.

I will say, this story made me initiate sex with my husband last night. We have sex a lot more often than 3x every 7 weeks but there's still times I just don't feel like it for whatever reason and don't initiate or call off. My husband can thank this dude for giving me a kick in the pants.

It was absolutely NOT his last option. Here are some other options:

1. Tell her that he needs them to go to marriage counseling to talk about this issue
2. Tell her that because of this issue, he wants to separate
3. Sit down with her the night before, when he was logging her refusal into the sheet, and say "I have been keeping track of when you say no to me and I want to talk to you about this right now, before you leave, and while you're gone, I want us both to think about how to move forward in our marriage"

I was a wife who denied sex. There were a lot of reasons for my denials. Some of them are on the list. There were months when we only had sex once or twice. My then-husband availed himself of options 1 and 3 on this list, and the unspoken thing in the air was option 2, even though we had a child. We ultimately did divorce, because my non-attraction to him was a symptom of many much larger problems. I don't have a great explanation for why or how I stopped being attracted to him. It wasn't that his looks changed. I had some body image issues and physical issues post-pregnancy, but even those were the defining factor. We went to counseling and talked about these things and I really never had answers for WHY. Sometimes I think people just stop being compatible sexually or stop putting the same emphasis on that aspect of a relationship. In those cases, if the "magic" can't be rekindled, I honestly really believe that it's often better to divorce. It's a huge difference in priorities and the continued imbalance is just going to make both parties miserable.

Anonymous wrote:My take on the spreadsheet is it was a last ditch attempt at making her realize it's an issue. He probably brought it up before only to be brushed off or to have her minimize and claim they had sex all the time. No doubt it's a jerk move but it was probably his last option. Damn, he's 26 and in a near sexless marriage! He's probably so close to done the ramifications of this thing don't concern him in the least.

I will say, this story made me initiate sex with my husband last night. We have sex a lot more often than 3x every 7 weeks but there's still times I just don't feel like it for whatever reason and don't initiate or call off. My husband can thank this dude for giving me a kick in the pants.

?++

I believe she really has to leave for work for 10 days. I also happen to know that people, when they are not TRULY sexual with their spouse but to someone else, will schedule time with their AP during those 10 days.

Geez. This shit is all over these boards. Work is legitimate. The affair is assumed on our part because she didn't even want sex prior to leaving and only had it twice in 27 days.

Something is off...

My take on the spreadsheet is it was a last ditch attempt at making her realize it's an issue. He probably brought it up before only to be brushed off or to have her minimize and claim they had sex all the time. No doubt it's a jerk move but it was probably his last option. Damn, he's 26 and in a near sexless marriage! He's probably so close to done the ramifications of this thing don't concern him in the least.

I will say, this story made me initiate sex with my husband last night. We have sex a lot more often than 3x every 7 weeks but there's still times I just don't feel like it for whatever reason and don't initiate or call off. My husband can thank this dude for giving me a kick in the pants.