Anonymous wrote:WOW! This is taking a life of its own.
OP here.
The school did not let us opt out of taking this literature course even though DS studied English language at a much lower level -- three to be specific. The teacher knew he was being tutored as the literature readings and the homeworks were too difficult for him. His essays required him to cite the book and the page only. That was his accommodation in this class.. He could have memorized direct quotes from the book and cited the pages, had it been a requirement for the final.
By the way, I ran his other essays through Turnitin which showed more plagiarizm than this one. I then ran my own CV through the website and I found out that I had heavily plagiarized my own résumé.
I also found it to be quite strange that no one informed me about it for several hours past the incident, and responded only after I wrote to them.

You have played, played played the system for every excuse and now you got caught. Life happens.

Anonymous wrote:WOW! This is taking a life of its own.
OP here.
The school did not let us opt out of taking this literature course even though DS studied English language at a much lower level -- three to be specific. The teacher knew he was being tutored as the literature readings and the homeworks were too difficult for him. His essays required him to cite the book and the page only. That was his accommodation in this class.. He could have memorized direct quotes from the book and cited the pages, had it been a requirement for the final.
By the way, I ran his other essays through Turnitin which showed more plagiarizm than this one. I then ran my own CV through the website and I found out that I had heavily plagiarized my own résumé.
I also found it to be quite strange that no one informed me about it for several hours past the incident, and responded only after I wrote to them.

If you want to help your son, you better tone it down and stop making excuses. My DS got a fail for not citing correctly. Apparently they really want them to learn this. If they are offering a retake, then you might want to just say yes and adjust your travel plans accordingly. Bragging about your big vacation is not going to help.

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the poor kid was over-prepped for his test to the point he had memorized his notes. Had he just been studying concepts for basic understanding and writing an essay on the spot, he might have been okay. Instead he researched, was tutored, rewrote and basically regurgitated information he pulled from other sources. Getting the questions in advance was his downfall.

That's what I thought at first, too. Then OP posted again to say that s/he ran DS's other papers through Turnitin and found other examples of plagiarism.

It sounds like the poor kid was over-prepped for his test to the point he had memorized his notes. Had he just been studying concepts for basic understanding and writing an essay on the spot, he might have been okay. Instead he researched, was tutored, rewrote and basically regurgitated information he pulled from other sources. Getting the questions in advance was his downfall.

Part of the problem may arise from cultural differences in what is considered plagiarism. Some cultures encourage learning from those who are experts in a subject and then repeating what is learned from those experts. US schools prefer that students study and learn and then write about what they have learned in their own words. In literature particularly, US schools expect students to read and analyze works of literature using their own words and ideas and not simply repeating the words of experts.
Is it possible the OP's son is from a culture that views repeating the words of experts as the goal of learning for young students and the OP's son thought he was doing what the teacher expected him to do?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WOW! This is taking a life of its own.
OP here.
The school did not let us opt out of taking this literature course even though DS studied English language at a much lower level -- three to be specific. The teacher knew he was being tutored as the literature readings and the homeworks were too difficult for him. His essays required him to cite the book and the page only. That was his accommodation in this class.. He could have memorized direct quotes from the book and cited the pages, had it been a requirement for the final.
By the way, I ran his other essays through Turnitin which showed more plagiarizm than this one. I then ran my own CV through the website and I found out that I had heavily plagiarized my own résumé.
I also found it to be quite strange that no one informed me about it for several hours past the incident, and responded only after I wrote to them.

How in HELL do you plagiarize your OWN CV?

I can think of ways a cv would show up if run through some algorithm that looked for distinctive phrases. These web products are the place to start, not end, when suspecting plagiarism.

OP. your son cheated. It may have been from ignorance, but he cheated.

Instead of criticizing the school for insufficient coddling, the two of you should eat some humble pie and thank them for not failing your child outright.

Yes, it would have been better of the exam were graded earlier, but since you don't know the circumstances, you should stop assuming g it was lazy incompetence.

You and your son should grow up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:college English teacher here. I would give your son a 0 for an essay or exam answer with ideas AND?or inadequate paraphrases that come from spark notes or whatever. Next time he fails the class. Next time he is suspended from school.

And I won't talk to you about it.

Please let your son make Cs based on his own ideas/writing/work. Sounds like he is a C student while his language skills catch up. His attempt to be an A student is preventing him from learning and will get him kicked out of school.

Why are you so angry? Maybe you are not a college as you are claiming but teacher in question. And why are you mentioning spark notes?

No one here is angry except you, OP. We're trying to explain to you that your son is cheating and you are doing him no favors by condoning it, making excuses for him, blaming everyone but him, and now lashing out at people who are telling you the truth you don't want to hear. Your son has done something wrong, and not for the first time. You are encouraging it by not holding him responsible and repeatedly claiming on here that what he did isn't really cheating. You AND he are going to get him kicked out of school if you don't listen to the good advice on here.

PP probably mentioned Spark Notes because they are one of the biggest names in study guides, which you yourself said you discovered as a source when running your son's papers through Turnitin. This isn't a conspiracy. We're trying to explain to you how it works so your boy learns before it's too late for him, but you can't take it. I feel bad for your kid; you are teaching him the wrong lessons.

Anonymous wrote:college English teacher here. I would give your son a 0 for an essay or exam answer with ideas AND?or inadequate paraphrases that come from spark notes or whatever. Next time he fails the class. Next time he is suspended from school.

And I won't talk to you about it.

Please let your son make Cs based on his own ideas/writing/work. Sounds like he is a C student while his language skills catch up. His attempt to be an A student is preventing him from learning and will get him kicked out of school.

Why are you so angry? Maybe you are not a college as you are claiming but teacher in question. And why are you mentioning spark notes?

Anonymous wrote:WOW! This is taking a life of its own.
OP here.
The school did not let us opt out of taking this literature course even though DS studied English language at a much lower level -- three to be specific. The teacher knew he was being tutored as the literature readings and the homeworks were too difficult for him. His essays required him to cite the book and the page only. That was his accommodation in this class.. He could have memorized direct quotes from the book and cited the pages, had it been a requirement for the final.
By the way, I ran his other essays through Turnitin which showed more plagiarizm than this one. I then ran my own CV through the website and I found out that I had heavily plagiarized my own résumé.
I also found it to be quite strange that no one informed me about it for several hours past the incident, and responded only after I wrote to them.

How in HELL do you plagiarize your OWN CV?

college English teacher here. I would give your son a 0 for an essay or exam answer with ideas AND?or inadequate paraphrases that come from spark notes or whatever. Next time he fails the class. Next time he is suspended from school.

And I won't talk to you about it.

Please let your son make Cs based on his own ideas/writing/work. Sounds like he is a C student while his language skills catch up. His attempt to be an A student is preventing him from learning and will get him kicked out of school.

Anonymous wrote:OP, the more you post the more clear the situation becomes: your son is habitually plagiarizing and he is REALLY lucky the school gave him another chance. Instead of shifting blame to them and complaining that they're getting in the way of his vacation, you should be more worried about having a serious talk with your son about the very high chance he'll get flunked - if not expelled - from school or college if keeps this up. He's being given very special treatment right now whether you understand and appreciate that or not. It won't happen in college. And it probably won't keep happening at his current school now that they know what's going on.

It sounds like he's struggling and so he's resorting to cheating to keep up. I assume there's pressure on him from home to have an excellent GPA and that's why you tried to keep him out of this class. Is there a lower level he can drop down to?

+1

OP, seriously. Your son did something wrong. Rather than teaching him to make excuses and cry and scream and yell with self-righteous outrage about the details of it, teach you child how to move forward. He needs to learn this NOW because in a year or two the stakes will be MUCH higher.

Sure, the school should've informed you, but you don't know that they weren't going to.

Be a parent. Not a crybaby.

--High School English teacher and a parent

Anonymous wrote:Common facts do not need to be cited. 5+5 = 10. Whales are mammals. Stones are hard.

Correct. But original thoughts, interpretations, and written passages are not the same thing, and they do need to be cited. You seem incredibly resistant to THAT common fact.

Common facts do not need to be cited. 5+5 = 10. Whales are mammals. Stones are hard.