Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 23:56     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.


The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation[b], as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?


But AAP level IV is still not taking anything away from any other students.

I think that most people would be on board with extending the curriculum to as many kids who can handle it, without taking away the center schools.


If I read the thread correctly, the point is about making every school a center school with every class following the center AAP curriculum.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 23:56     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.


The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation, as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?


But AAP level IV is still not taking anything away from any other students.

I think that most people would be on board with extending the curriculum to as many kids who can handle it, without taking away the center schools.


[b]It is not about Level IV taking anything away from the other students. It is about making it available to all the students by default, and dealing with those who find the curriculum difficult through other remedial approaches. I see a lot of possessiveness about AAP on this forum as if it is a privilege that should not be shared with the others. Think broadly, folks! We are talking about elevating the overall quality of our education system here -- and we are all taxpayers whether our kids go to AAP or GenEd. Why not bring up the level of GenEd[b]?


I don't know of a parent with a child in AAP who would object to fcps extending the AAP curriculum to as many students who can handle it.

What I do think they would object to, especially those of us who have seen our highly gifted kids go through the center program, is eliminating the center because a group of parents feel that "it's not fair."

We have been involved in gifted programs in many state. The center model is, hands down, the best program we have experienced for our child. We have children who are not qualified for the center program, and we still feel this way after having experience the system from both sides of the fence.

What fcps has managed to create, through using a magnet approach within a traditional elementary school, is simply exceptional at meeting the needs of the majority of the highly gifted and gifted population.

Expand the curriculum, by all means, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Keep the centers, maybe scaling them down by 20-25%, and expand the curriculum to more base schools.

The center models have too much value and are an exceptional way to meet the needs of kids who might fall through the cracks otherwise.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 23:49     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.


The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation[b], as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?


But AAP level IV is still not taking anything away from any other students.

I think that most people would be on board with extending the curriculum to as many kids who can handle it, without taking away the center schools.


It is not about Level IV taking anything away from the other students. It is about making it available to all the students by default, and dealing with those who find the curriculum difficult through other remedial approaches. I see a lot of possessiveness about AAP on this forum as if it is a privilege that should not be shared with the others. Think broadly, folks! We are talking about elevating the overall quality of our education system here -- and we are all taxpayers whether our kids go to AAP or GenEd. Why not bring up the level of GenEd?
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 23:41     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.


The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation, as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?


FCPS reads these posts often enough. I think they check them because it saves them taxpayer dollars to get feedback on issues here instead of having meeting after meeting on the issue. It's another method of soliciting input especially for people who don't have the time to show up for meetings.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 23:41     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.


The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation[b], as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?


But AAP level IV is still not taking anything away from any other students.

I think that most people would be on board with extending the curriculum to as many kids who can handle it, without taking away the center schools.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 23:38     Subject: Re:AAP - A new perspective
Firstly, most schools do not offer the AAP curriculum to all students even in part. Cluster I appears to be the only place where this type of teaching in general ed is even tried. Secondly, everyone gets a chance to get to AA level baseball when they're ready and often even in AA, children are good at one thing and not everything. AAP right now seems to be an all or nothing type of program. My understanding also is that the general ed program is lacking some basic parts of AAP such as some of the projects, seminars, and William and Mary curriculum which they may never receive in a general ed program. Finally, at what point are these children ever going to learn to deal with others who may have different skills sets than themselves? Between sports tiers and academic tiering, there seems to be this myth that children need to be with like minded individuals at all times. All this segregation in schools leads to a more segregated society.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 23:35     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.


The fact is that the local AAP is not the same as the AAP center. The local AAP pulls students out once a week or so for one class of math, whereas the Center AAP is full time. Otherwise, why would they have this distinction. The root problem is fundamentally that of using a test such as CogAT to do the selection for a curriculum that is ultimately based on accelerated math (and yes, test scores are the single strong deciding factor in the decisions -- self provided work samples and accolades don't do much at all). While those who do well in the group standardized test may also do well (for the most part) in the AAP, which has been the argument presented by some of the PPs, the fact remains that there is a large population of kids who happen to miss some arbitrary cutoff score on the CogAT, who are also capable of handling the AAP curriculum, but are not challenged enough in the GenEd or the local level III (or even local level IV) in most, if not all, schools. As a result, we end up with a GenEd curriculum that is largely mediocre, and we graduate kids en masse who are little prepared for or disinterested in STEM.

The proposition of raising the bar by making full time AAP curriculum the standard and FCPS setting a model of excellence in the nation, as presented by the OP, is quite a welcome one. It is also true that discussion on this forum probably does little to have the issue heard by the relevant administrators in FCPS unless Dr. Garza is reading these posts. How about an online petition such as change.org/petition?
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 22:52     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
I still don't understand how one child receiving a service or learning a particular curriculum takes away from your child, especially in the schools that do offer the AAP curriculum to all students who can handle the work.

That would be akin to saying that my neighbors kids having the opportunity to play AA baseball takes away from my kid who is single A.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 22:01     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:So what's the next step? Pushing for more differentiation for your child if the system isn't going to change? Are you all supplementing at home?


Um, yes, that would be an understatement.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 20:34     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
So what's the next step? Pushing for more differentiation for your child if the system isn't going to change? Are you all supplementing at home?
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 19:52     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:18:57 again.

The question is also open to other anti-AAP posters. What have you done (or plan to do) to change the system?


I've spoken with our principal and I've called and spoken with the cluster supervisor. I've written a letter to the AAP coordinator.

As far as I know there are no groups like FCAG that "lobby" for the majority of the kids. The pro separate AAP groups have organized groups that refuse to allow any changes to the Center model. They are loud and are obviously heard, very much like your antagonizing posts. Reminds me of many extreme right wing loudmouths, where the mindsets of the few seek to control the masses.


+1
I wonder if the PP who is doing the interrogating realizes just how many people feel this way and that there are certainly more than one poster here on DCUM s/he is responding to/bantering with so charmingly?

Also, I completely agree with everything you said and have also done the same things. It's not hard to find a group of like-minded parents, as it seems most of the parents of GE students at our center school feel exactly this way and aren't at all shy about saying so. If the issue were put to a vote by taxpaying citizens of FxCo, as should have been done long ago, the School Board would see how the majority feels, not just a certain subgroup.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 19:31     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
^ Sorry. I realize I came off as snide above. But I do encourage you to keep making yourself heard and have others do so, as well.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 19:27     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:18:57 again.

The question is also open to other anti-AAP posters. What have you done (or plan to do) to change the system?


I've spoken with our principal and I've called and spoken with the cluster supervisor. I've written a letter to the AAP coordinator.

As far as I know there are no groups like FCAG that "lobby" for the majority of the kids. The pro separate AAP groups have organized groups that refuse to allow any changes to the Center model. They are loud and are obviously heard, very much like your antagonizing posts. Reminds me of many extreme right wing loudmouths, where the mindsets of the few seek to control the masses.




Easy, Sport. I'm just trying to establish that all your blustering is being backed by action. Because we would both agree that ranting on a DCUM thread is not going to "get it done", no?

Maybe you're the one to start the Level-IV Services For All group. Seek backers here and I guarantee you'll have a group of supporters pretty quickly, especially if "the masses" are on your side.
Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 19:13     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
Anonymous wrote:18:57 again.

The question is also open to other anti-AAP posters. What have you done (or plan to do) to change the system?


I've spoken with our principal and I've called and spoken with the cluster supervisor. I've written a letter to the AAP coordinator.

As far as I know there are no groups like FCAG that "lobby" for the majority of the kids. The pro separate AAP groups have organized groups that refuse to allow any changes to the Center model. They are loud and are obviously heard, very much like your antagonizing posts. Reminds me of many extreme right wing loudmouths, where the mindsets of the few seek to control the masses.


Anonymous
Post 06/18/2014 19:04     Subject: AAP - A new perspective
18:57 again.

The question is also open to other anti-AAP posters. What have you done (or plan to do) to change the system?