Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you are not the only one. DS is also ADHD and no, he is not on meds. His grades are not suffering so far. He has learned a lot of tactics to manage his ADHD to his advantage and to channel his extra energy into other activities. In other words, we got ourselves a huge drama geek and a voracious reader. Oh, and he's a class clown. So far, no major complaints from ES, MS and now HS.

FWIW, diagnosed at 10 with ADHD.

OP here, thanks for the reply. DS is the class clown and the teachers hate that. I was sad to hear many of the other moms chatting about what drugs their child is on. Then the doses and that special dose just to get homework done....
My son can not write anything down. He has no patience and does math in his head rather than write. I have sat and watched the other kids (mostly girls) carefully writing out tons of work. Paragraphs long.
DS is 9 and labeled by teachers as trouble. He is smart and they mention that in a patronizing way.
His self esteem is taking a dive, and I suspect that meds would make him feel less like a standout.
One day he told me that he does not understand why all the other kids in the neighborhood do not want to play as much as he does. That was a cute statement, but it saddened me.

This is how OP describes her DS. This is a kid in trouble and a mother in denial. She cluck clucks over parents giving their children medication so they can do their homework. Like thats a bad thing. Where will these children who are doing their homework be in five years? And where will OP's DC be in five years?

The ONLY post about medication that she has latched onto is one saying it doesn't work (there are MANY studies to the contrary). This is not about where her DS will be in the future. He is in trouble now. As she rages against the rudeness of his teacher, and sticks her fingers in her ears (la la la la la I can't HEAR you) her DS loses precious time.

She's not going to listen. Its sad.

OP, the thing is that very few people are actually saying that you should medicate your son. You are way too focused on that one element to the detriment of other effective treatments. I don't want to be judgmental but you are being judgmental while not doing the kinds of things that many parents of ADHD kids do, possibly in addition to meds.

The best advice here is the list of what YOU must do to prepare your child for a successful time at school. The school element has been largely covered.

You must prepare your environment so your DC can get that exercise every morning before school. The trampoline is brilliant. We have one and also a swing which are lifesavers. If possible, walk to school. Protein at both breakfast and lunch, no matter what you have to do to achieve it. I have resorted to sending milk and cereal for lunch when whims preclude all other forms. After school exercise, every single day. Deep pressure such as swimming, highly disciplined activities such as martial arts, just going to the playground. Limit sugar, TV/computer. A behavior plan at home, built around activities and rewards, is crucial. Activity, a good diet, and adequate sleep is more important than homework completion (if you can arrange hw reduction with the school).

So, yes, it sounds like your teacher may be less than ideal for your kiddo. It happens. In 6 years of public school we got 2 great teachers, 1 very good, 1 mean, 1 needing to retire and not understanding SN at all, and 1 who never bothered to pay any attention to DC that wasn't negative. Ever. I can't remember ever going to the principal about any of the teachers except the one who banished DC to the hallway to get him out of her way.

For the record, DC doesn't have ADHD but another disorder, is medicated, does all sorts of therapies, interventions, activities, and at home/at school behavior plans. We consider the meds to be the basis upon which we stack the other tools. Without meds, DS wouldn't be able to access those additional tools. With them, they help immensely. Like most parents with medicated kids, we wish there were an alternative. However, DC's brain is wired inappropriately and we reached a lack of function by the beginning of 1st grade. It was heartbreaking and meds, combined with the therapies we were already doing and other added interventions, were what was needed.

GL OP. There's no reason not to continue to try to avoid meds. There is every reason to up your game. Under both circumstances, you absolutely must do everything else possible, exhausting as it is, to help your DC. It's the job we got when we ended up with our awesome kids.

PP here. I forgot to mention that my son does massive amounts of sports/running around every single day. He eats very well (no additives, artificial ingredients, etc….)

Thanks

Anonymous wrote:
Forgot to say that my son is not on meds either.
DH and I (doctor and scientist) have researched the issue, and know that efficacy diminishes after a couple of years (reasons are complex). Also, many meds suppress appetite, which would be bad for my undersized DS.

Reasons: experts disagree on which are more important, but they comprise
1. Failure by patients to follow exact protocols.
2. Hormonal changes and growth spurts affecting response to meds, hence a lot of switching around in the teen years, and dealing with unpleasant physical, mental and behavioral side effects.
3. Finally, and that is the big problem, loss of efficacy in the medication itself. Is the brain habituated? Million dollar question.

So we are saving the meds for when DS can simply not function anymore.

My DS has been on Concerta for 2 years (K-2nd). DS is a really sharp and social kid, but simply cannot focus in school without it. He was not able to sit in circle at all, disrupted his peers and could not stay on task, etc…... He has seen tremendous improvement since being on the medication and reported to me the first day he tried it that "he felt calm". I truly hate the idea of medication, but we tried OT and sensory integration training and it didn't do a thing. He really has a pure case (as far as we can tell) of ADHD (combined--inattentive and hyperactive). His inappropriate talking in class/impulsivity is not willful and he truly wants to behave/focus, but just can't to the extent he should. Sadly, he seems to have maxed out on the meds--he is already at 72mg of Concerta, which is the maximum dose. We just upped it from 54 mg as his teachers have noticed recently that he has had more trouble focusing and has been fooling around in class more in the last month or so.

Given all this background, I would love to know if any adult ADHD sufferers or parents of older ADHD children have ever experienced this and, if so, what they did about it. I would also love more information/thoughts from the poster on this topic (outgrowing meds).

Thank you in advance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I just don't like the way the teachers seem impatient with this one hold out child. As if we need to get with the program.

OP, I don't know your child or the type of school he goes to, I am the pp above who said I was struck by a frustrated teacher at the age of 8 before my ADHD diagnosis. I feel bad that the women lost her job because I was acting up in a way that deep down I knew I shouldn't have been behaving(not that it was okay to hit, but I remember feeling guilty as a kid because I knew I wasn't behaving how I should in class.) I will also say a lot of my acting out came from trying to be social and connect with kids, if I got them to laugh then I was in and that became paramount to learning. That is why I really recommend finding something outside of school he likes (therefore can concentrate on without as much hard work) and can feel good about and connect to peers in an appropriate way.

That said, if you child is disrupting the class and the teachers have already made every accommodation they can it is fair that they feel frustrated, not directly AT your child but more the situation. Perhaps he isn't in the right academic setting for him, he might need more one on one time then his teachers can give. Like I said I do not know if your child's teachers are being reasonable or not but if your child requires extra accommodation that they do not have the ability to make, that is frustrating for everyone, especially your child. And if they are just not patient with him, well I hope you child gets better teachers next year cause that sucks and they should find another profession.

Agree with PP. We were on the fence with mild/moderate ADHD and had seen flashes where DD would mostly exhibit appropriate class behaviors and other times where I could understand why the person teaching her would be frustrated. We were at the point with our local school where they had true various accommodations and nothing seemed to work. I felt in that setting we would have to medicate for sure if we wanted to get a different result unless we some how lucked out with the child whisperer teacher that worked miracles with ADHD kids while managing the needs of the other 28 kids. Not to say it couldn't happen but even if it did I that would just be one year of school. So we looked to change the academic setting. So far there have been improvements with classroom behavior and work completion but it's not perfect and things like a long winter break or all the snow days seemed to knock dd off track. With friends, she still doesn't have close friends but I'm trying to make more of an effort to reach out have dd get together with other classmates outside of school. DD is also part of outside activities that she enjoys and I hope helps her learn how to work on a team, have fun, and possibly may make some friends. Not ruling out medication for the future since demands and my child can change over time.

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

OP here, I knew about much of what you wrote. I really wanted to get an understanding of what becomes of the holdout child or family, and from what I have read here, we are doomed to be ostracized. I will be using all other non drug methods to work with my son. I owe it to him since he will be under so much scrutiny as the unmedicated child with ADD. I did watch him playing with his friends today and plan to speak with him about being too rough, he is big. It will be a constant task, but I don't mind it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

And there you go, OP. This is what the defense of your approach leads to. You are a doctor, so you know the absurdity of saying medication has no effect on outcome. You have observed yourself how the kids receiving medication are better able to attend to their classes.

Please do some research, and improve your reading comprehension. Meds have short term effects on children. They help children concentrate and improve disruptive behavior in the short term. They have no effect on long term risk factors for adhd kids (as I said). They will not prevent a child from self medicating as an adult as some on this thread claim. Their effectiveness all but disappears after about 3 years. And those 3 years of compliance do not produce long term positive effects in behavior, self esteem, drug abuse, or academic performance.

If you are interested in getting a couple years of a break from your difficult child, by all means, drug them. If you want positive long term outcomes for your child, please try something else.

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

So, what are you doing for your child with ADHD? Wait, do you even have one?

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

This is 100% correct. Thank you.

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

Just curious, do you have a child with ADHD?

Anonymous wrote:OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

And there you go, OP. This is what the defense of your approach leads to. You are a doctor, so you know the absurdity of saying medication has no effect on outcome. You have observed yourself how the kids receiving medication are better able to attend to their classes.

OP, ignore the people saying you are doing a disservice to your child or letting him "suffer" by not medicating him. They are simply trying to justify the drugging of their children by shaming you for not medicating.

The fact is, children with adhd are more likely to drop out, use drugs, and be arrested. However, drugging them has absolutely NO EFFECT on these outcomes. Instead, it makes a child easier to handle and makes parents feel like they are helping.

The most effective things you can do for your son are all non-medicinal. Teach him to adapt to and cope with his symptoms in a way that helps him fit the expectations of those around him. Drugging him into compliance teaches him nothing, which is why it has no long term positive effect. The poster that spoke of their son's frequent exercise and involvement in multiple sports activities is on the right track.

Oh, and you can be sure that several posters will criticize what I wrote here. They will say THEIR child needed meds, that it was the ONLY thing that helped, and that their child's life was wonderfully assisted by them. Good for them. The data simply does not support their illusion.

I just have to wonder here, if Sen Deeds had his son, Gus, on meds, ever?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure you are still reading and I had to stop after about the 5 th post. I am usually so kind on here but your post sounds so judgemental..." Am I the only one...etc.". Does your child really have adhd and has been diagnosed by a doctor with testing?

As a parent with an adhd child, medicine was the only thing that helped - with focus, attention, learning, peer group. Your post makes me want to cry and I am years away from this now as I have an amazing, successful son. Why do people post like this....do you really think you are the better parent? NO WAY did I want to give my child meds. I read and read and consulted specialist after specialist, cried endlessly. Would you say " am I the only one not giving my diabetic child insulin. I'm such a better parent and love him more than you do yours as can manage it all by myself." The kids who take meds take it for a medical reason and NEED it. It is not a choice! If you have a choice, maybe your child got the wrong diagnosis.

And while you have pushed my buttons,,,,if it is adhd ( like my son had) He is a pain in class because mine was. I have a quiet, shy kid too and guess what...when your class clown is joking, talking, jumping all day and the teacher constantly has to redirect it bothers my shy, quiet child who comes home stressed and does not like your child. Wow, just wow.

was this part necessary? Was it really important to you to get that last part in, make sure OP reads it, mulls it over? Feel better now?

Yes, it was important because my older child was her child and he WAS NOT LIKED either. This is not a joke " oh, he's the class clown." Kids pick up on this and they know way before we do who is not liked. i am telling her the truth and I found her post very unkind and super judgemental. I do not know her child so I am being honest about public perception in a classroom. She needs to know the truth. Not a false belief.

Anonymous wrote:
Forgot to say that my son is not on meds either.
DH and I (doctor and scientist) have researched the issue, and know that efficacy diminishes after a couple of years (reasons are complex). Also, many meds suppress appetite, which would be bad for my undersized DS.

Reasons: experts disagree on which are more important, but they comprise
1. Failure by patients to follow exact protocols.
2. Hormonal changes and growth spurts affecting response to meds, hence a lot of switching around in the teen years, and dealing with unpleasant physical, mental and behavioral side effects.
3. Finally, and that is the big problem, loss of efficacy in the medication itself. Is the brain habituated? Million dollar question.

So we are saving the meds for when DS can simply not function anymore.

No failure to follow protocols. efficacy may diminish but maturation increases! No switching around after first two months.....depends on the kid. One medicine, same dose for years, worked for us -- but obviously not everyone. Brain is not habituated as can go all summer and is fine because he does not have to sit to task, produce results in the summer and the hyperactivity piece has gone away do to maturation and social development in the teen years. A real- life case study. I am just amazed how people sound like they " know" everything about this and it is different for every person. I never judge anyone yet I always feel judged. It amazes me.