Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:42     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are different types of "smart" and some of those don't qualify for AAP. My older child is very "smart" in creative writing (got a 99% on CogAt), but was low 90's/upper 80's on the other parts. She wasn't even in the pool. Younger child is "smart" in reasoning. It is a notable difference b/t the two. He's accepted for AAP. I don't think younger child is "smarter" than older child. He is faster when it comes to math.

I don't compare them. I think that's the rub. There's no need to say "child, you are smarter than the other kids." Why not just say that they are offering additional challenges at the AAP school and leave it at that. Why does anyone need to personalize it. It doesn't help kids to tell them they are smart -- it just causes them stress when they get to something hard and they don't know what to do -- b/c they think they must not be "smart" if they can't do it easily right off the bat. Why not say "you seem to like puzzles or challenges or thinking of new ideas... this is a school that encourages that and some parents think that it'll be good for their kids."



I am offended that you describe your older child as "'smart' in creative writing". Are you saying my child is not? And why add that they got a 99% CogAt? We all know tests mean nothing if they say children are different. Your child may grow up to be a complete failure in life, unable to even write a shopping list much less a novel or annual report. What goes around comes around, PP.


??? you are nuts.


My point exactly. Thank you.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:41     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the differences are negligible but the tracking is extreme.


This is it, in a nutshell. Sure, some kids are more advanced academically. But the current AAP system separates kids of *extremely similar* intelligence into two labeled groups. If it was an actual gifted program, it would only take the very highest scorers/achievers, and the vast majority of kids would be together in Gen Ed. with no hard feelings for the exceptional ones who would be receiving a special education. That's just not the case right now.


So there is a population of kids who are borderline. Thats ok. There will always be kids that just missed the cut off, that doesn't mean we should do away with the program.


There would be far fewer kids who "missed the cut off" if the cut off were raised. But that would just make too much sense.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:40     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There are different types of "smart" and some of those don't qualify for AAP. My older child is very "smart" in creative writing (got a 99% on CogAt), but was low 90's/upper 80's on the other parts. She wasn't even in the pool. Younger child is "smart" in reasoning. It is a notable difference b/t the two. He's accepted for AAP. I don't think younger child is "smarter" than older child. He is faster when it comes to math.

I don't compare them. I think that's the rub. There's no need to say "child, you are smarter than the other kids." Why not just say that they are offering additional challenges at the AAP school and leave it at that. Why does anyone need to personalize it. It doesn't help kids to tell them they are smart -- it just causes them stress when they get to something hard and they don't know what to do -- b/c they think they must not be "smart" if they can't do it easily right off the bat. Why not say "you seem to like puzzles or challenges or thinking of new ideas... this is a school that encourages that and some parents think that it'll be good for their kids."



I am offended that you describe your older child as "'smart' in creative writing". Are you saying my child is not? And why add that they got a 99% CogAt? We all know tests mean nothing if they say children are different. Your child may grow up to be a complete failure in life, unable to even write a shopping list much less a novel or annual report. What goes around comes around, PP.


??? you are nuts.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:39     Subject: Re:If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is stupid is to tell your child he is smart. Would you tell a borderline child he is dumb? Of course not. We'd say to ANY child that he/she is smart to provide encouragement. Therefore when you say your kid got in because he thinks different, learns faster, is smarter, etc. it sets this boundary up of the haves and the have nots. So no, I'm not telling my child she is "in" because she is smart. I'm not using words 'smart,' 'learns faster,' 'needs more challenging work,' etc. I'm using words like, "the school is trying to consolidate things for third grade to streamline classes. Pulling kids in and out won't work as well so I think they are just doing some classes with no pull outs. Period. That's it. If she comes home and says this is for the 'smart kids' per your kid, I'm going to tell my kid your kid is mistaken because obviously we know kids not in her class who are smart.


I don't tell my children they're in AAP because they're smart because research shows that telling children they're smart tends to backfire and lead to children who do less than they could because they're afraid they might reveal themselves as not smart.

However. I do tell them it looks

One of my children loves lacrosse but he's mediocre at it. He has friends who're great. He has observed they're great. When he was little (<9) and he asked me how good a player he was, I'd ask him what he thought. As he got older, I was honest with him, and I told him areas he was competent at and areas that he struggled with. Why would I lie to him? Especially at ages where he's beginning to see how effort can result in improvements that can results in him being a better player? There are some areas where he might always be at a disadvantage, such as his height. We're honest about that too. Just because "the good lacrosse" kids play on a particular team does not mean that there aren't other good lacrosse kids playing elsewhere.


So those not in AAP don't enjoy school, don't employ creative problem solving strategies, and don't continue working at problems even when they're frustrated? Wow, poor things.


What is your problem? She's not building an airtight case in a courtroom, she's offering an explanation that works for her son.



The problem is that this is what divides the schools and kids. My kid is the same kid that she was before the AAP letter arrived. The letter didn't create or confirm anything else about her. I resent you telling your kids something else which my kid and other kids hear. My kid comes home and says your kid said AAP is for the smart kids I'm telling her your kid is mistaken and there are plenty of smart kids not in AAP.


There are plenty of smart kids not in AAP. That doesn't change the fact that AAP is for smart kids / kids who are naturally talented at academics / kids who test well / kids who are interested in the program / etc.

Just like there are plenty of good lacrosse players not on the "good lacrosse players" team. The kids on the "good lacrosse players" team are still good, however.


The post asks what to tell a child. How would my child feel if she asked why there were kids who always meet in classroom b on Wednesday mornings and I said that the pretty girls are selected to go to those meetings, you think my 8 year old will think anything other than the non meters are not as pretty? You're delusional if that's what you're thinking.


"Non attenders"


+1000
I'd love to see the outcry from current AAP parents if all of a sudden there was a system in place similar to what you're describing. Where all of the kids who are, for instance, extremely attractive or exceptionally artistic, were grouped together. Of course, I know you were being facetious with the "pretty girl" example, as am I, but you just know that if there was any kind of segregation in which AAP kids were all of a sudden not the "selected" group, their parents would be outraged.


Except that we send our kids to school for an academic education. Not to be groomed for beauty pageants. But no,if I put my child in a beauty pageant, and she were not chosen, I would not be outraged. I'd tell my kid that she is loved unconditionally and she doesn't need to be in the most selective group of "pretties" and tell her the ugly duckling story (if she were ugly, which she is not, but this conversation has gone into la la land, so what the heck.)


Obviously the examples were facetious. The point is very clear: that AAP parents, who so favor this stark division of kids because it works in their favor, would be filing lawsuits left and right if the situation were reversed and it was their kids who, all of a sudden, were not in the "chosen" group. It would be quite interesting to see, actually.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:32     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Because the differences are negligible but the tracking is extreme.


This is it, in a nutshell. Sure, some kids are more advanced academically. But the current AAP system separates kids of *extremely similar* intelligence into two labeled groups. If it was an actual gifted program, it would only take the very highest scorers/achievers, and the vast majority of kids would be together in Gen Ed. with no hard feelings for the exceptional ones who would be receiving a special education. That's just not the case right now.


So there is a population of kids who are borderline. Thats ok. There will always be kids that just missed the cut off, that doesn't mean we should do away with the program.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:31     Subject: Re:If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is stupid is to tell your child he is smart. Would you tell a borderline child he is dumb? Of course not. We'd say to ANY child that he/she is smart to provide encouragement. Therefore when you say your kid got in because he thinks different, learns faster, is smarter, etc. it sets this boundary up of the haves and the have nots. So no, I'm not telling my child she is "in" because she is smart. I'm not using words 'smart,' 'learns faster,' 'needs more challenging work,' etc. I'm using words like, "the school is trying to consolidate things for third grade to streamline classes. Pulling kids in and out won't work as well so I think they are just doing some classes with no pull outs. Period. That's it. If she comes home and says this is for the 'smart kids' per your kid, I'm going to tell my kid your kid is mistaken because obviously we know kids not in her class who are smart.


I don't tell my children they're in AAP because they're smart because research shows that telling children they're smart tends to backfire and lead to children who do less than they could because they're afraid they might reveal themselves as not smart.

However. I do tell them it looks

One of my children loves lacrosse but he's mediocre at it. He has friends who're great. He has observed they're great. When he was little (<9) and he asked me how good a player he was, I'd ask him what he thought. As he got older, I was honest with him, and I told him areas he was competent at and areas that he struggled with. Why would I lie to him? Especially at ages where he's beginning to see how effort can result in improvements that can results in him being a better player? There are some areas where he might always be at a disadvantage, such as his height. We're honest about that too. Just because "the good lacrosse" kids play on a particular team does not mean that there aren't other good lacrosse kids playing elsewhere.


So those not in AAP don't enjoy school, don't employ creative problem solving strategies, and don't continue working at problems even when they're frustrated? Wow, poor things.


What is your problem? She's not building an airtight case in a courtroom, she's offering an explanation that works for her son.



The problem is that this is what divides the schools and kids. My kid is the same kid that she was before the AAP letter arrived. The letter didn't create or confirm anything else about her. I resent you telling your kids something else which my kid and other kids hear. My kid comes home and says your kid said AAP is for the smart kids I'm telling her your kid is mistaken and there are plenty of smart kids not in AAP.


There are plenty of smart kids not in AAP. That doesn't change the fact that AAP is for smart kids / kids who are naturally talented at academics / kids who test well / kids who are interested in the program / etc.

Just like there are plenty of good lacrosse players not on the "good lacrosse players" team. The kids on the "good lacrosse players" team are still good, however.


The post asks what to tell a child. How would my child feel if she asked why there were kids who always meet in classroom b on Wednesday mornings and I said that the pretty girls are selected to go to those meetings, you think my 8 year old will think anything other than the non meters are not as pretty? You're delusional if that's what you're thinking.


"Non attenders"


+1000
I'd love to see the outcry from current AAP parents if all of a sudden there was a system in place similar to what you're describing. Where all of the kids who are, for instance, extremely attractive or exceptionally artistic, were grouped together. Of course, I know you were being facetious with the "pretty girl" example, as am I, but you just know that if there was any kind of segregation in which AAP kids were all of a sudden not the "selected" group, their parents would be outraged.


Except that we send our kids to school for an academic education. Not to be groomed for beauty pageants. But no,if I put my child in a beauty pageant, and she were not chosen, I would not be outraged. I'd tell my kid that she is loved unconditionally and she doesn't need to be in the most selective group of "pretties" and tell her the ugly duckling story (if she were ugly, which she is not, but this conversation has gone into la la land, so what the heck.)
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:27     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:Because the differences are negligible but the tracking is extreme.


This is it, in a nutshell. Sure, some kids are more advanced academically. But the current AAP system separates kids of *extremely similar* intelligence into two labeled groups. If it was an actual gifted program, it would only take the very highest scorers/achievers, and the vast majority of kids would be together in Gen Ed. with no hard feelings for the exceptional ones who would be receiving a special education. That's just not the case right now.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 14:20     Subject: Re:If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:What is stupid is to tell your child he is smart. Would you tell a borderline child he is dumb? Of course not. We'd say to ANY child that he/she is smart to provide encouragement. Therefore when you say your kid got in because he thinks different, learns faster, is smarter, etc. it sets this boundary up of the haves and the have nots. So no, I'm not telling my child she is "in" because she is smart. I'm not using words 'smart,' 'learns faster,' 'needs more challenging work,' etc. I'm using words like, "the school is trying to consolidate things for third grade to streamline classes. Pulling kids in and out won't work as well so I think they are just doing some classes with no pull outs. Period. That's it. If she comes home and says this is for the 'smart kids' per your kid, I'm going to tell my kid your kid is mistaken because obviously we know kids not in her class who are smart.


I don't tell my children they're in AAP because they're smart because research shows that telling children they're smart tends to backfire and lead to children who do less than they could because they're afraid they might reveal themselves as not smart.

However. I do tell them it looks

One of my children loves lacrosse but he's mediocre at it. He has friends who're great. He has observed they're great. When he was little (<9) and he asked me how good a player he was, I'd ask him what he thought. As he got older, I was honest with him, and I told him areas he was competent at and areas that he struggled with. Why would I lie to him? Especially at ages where he's beginning to see how effort can result in improvements that can results in him being a better player? There are some areas where he might always be at a disadvantage, such as his height. We're honest about that too. Just because "the good lacrosse" kids play on a particular team does not mean that there aren't other good lacrosse kids playing elsewhere.


So those not in AAP don't enjoy school, don't employ creative problem solving strategies, and don't continue working at problems even when they're frustrated? Wow, poor things.


What is your problem? She's not building an airtight case in a courtroom, she's offering an explanation that works for her son.



The problem is that this is what divides the schools and kids. My kid is the same kid that she was before the AAP letter arrived. The letter didn't create or confirm anything else about her. I resent you telling your kids something else which my kid and other kids hear. My kid comes home and says your kid said AAP is for the smart kids I'm telling her your kid is mistaken and there are plenty of smart kids not in AAP.


There are plenty of smart kids not in AAP. That doesn't change the fact that AAP is for smart kids / kids who are naturally talented at academics / kids who test well / kids who are interested in the program / etc.

Just like there are plenty of good lacrosse players not on the "good lacrosse players" team. The kids on the "good lacrosse players" team are still good, however.


The post asks what to tell a child. How would my child feel if she asked why there were kids who always meet in classroom b on Wednesday mornings and I said that the pretty girls are selected to go to those meetings, you think my 8 year old will think anything other than the non meters are not as pretty? You're delusional if that's what you're thinking.


"Non attenders"


+1000
I'd love to see the outcry from current AAP parents if all of a sudden there was a system in place similar to what you're describing. Where all of the kids who are, for instance, extremely attractive or exceptionally artistic, were grouped together. Of course, I know you were being facetious with the "pretty girl" example, as am I, but you just know that if there was any kind of segregation in which AAP kids were all of a sudden not the "selected" group, their parents would be outraged.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 13:33     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:There are different types of "smart" and some of those don't qualify for AAP. My older child is very "smart" in creative writing (got a 99% on CogAt), but was low 90's/upper 80's on the other parts. She wasn't even in the pool. Younger child is "smart" in reasoning. It is a notable difference b/t the two. He's accepted for AAP. I don't think younger child is "smarter" than older child. He is faster when it comes to math.

I don't compare them. I think that's the rub. There's no need to say "child, you are smarter than the other kids." Why not just say that they are offering additional challenges at the AAP school and leave it at that. Why does anyone need to personalize it. It doesn't help kids to tell them they are smart -- it just causes them stress when they get to something hard and they don't know what to do -- b/c they think they must not be "smart" if they can't do it easily right off the bat. Why not say "you seem to like puzzles or challenges or thinking of new ideas... this is a school that encourages that and some parents think that it'll be good for their kids."



I am offended that you describe your older child as "'smart' in creative writing". Are you saying my child is not? And why add that they got a 99% CogAt? We all know tests mean nothing if they say children are different. Your child may grow up to be a complete failure in life, unable to even write a shopping list much less a novel or annual report. What goes around comes around, PP.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 13:17     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
There are different types of "smart" and some of those don't qualify for AAP. My older child is very "smart" in creative writing (got a 99% on CogAt), but was low 90's/upper 80's on the other parts. She wasn't even in the pool. Younger child is "smart" in reasoning. It is a notable difference b/t the two. He's accepted for AAP. I don't think younger child is "smarter" than older child. He is faster when it comes to math.

I don't compare them. I think that's the rub. There's no need to say "child, you are smarter than the other kids." Why not just say that they are offering additional challenges at the AAP school and leave it at that. Why does anyone need to personalize it. It doesn't help kids to tell them they are smart -- it just causes them stress when they get to something hard and they don't know what to do -- b/c they think they must not be "smart" if they can't do it easily right off the bat. Why not say "you seem to like puzzles or challenges or thinking of new ideas... this is a school that encourages that and some parents think that it'll be good for their kids."

Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 13:09     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Because the differences are negligible but the tracking is extreme.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 12:37     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
You all aren't kidding anybody. Some people are smarter than others and better students than others. That shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings. This is a forum for parents, and even here it's not allowed to be said that people have different strengths because saying so assumes those without that particular strength are somehow being slighted. Do you really need your kid to be better than other kids for you to think they're the best thing in the world to you? If that is a tenuous feeling then I understand why some posters are so desperate to say that no child is smarter than another child, and no child does better at sports than another child. My kids are both amazing to me. One is super smart and a great student. One is not. I love them both the same. I don't care how they compare to your kids. I assume your kids are better at a lot of things than my kids are. So what. Why should that hurt anyone's feelings?
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 12:24     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Wow. After reading this thread, it seems there is NO RIGHT WAY to explain to my child why he is in AAP without offending someone. For those offended, it appears that you are simply offended that AAP exist at all (at least the way that FCPS is currently administering the program.) I concede that there are parents who are just obnoxious about it, but even the parents who try to downplay it or explain it in a fair, sensible way, someone finds the wording offensive.

Soon after DC was found AAP eligible, he tried out for travel soccer and didn't make it when half his team did - the reason given was that he "wasn't quite ready yet." I think he was proud to have been found eligible for AAP and I think he was disappointed not to have made travel soccer - but neither made him feel superior or inferior to his friends. He knows everyone has strengths and weaknesses and we should celebrate our differences and not feel competitive or threatened about them. AND he understands that being in AAP does NOT mean he is smarter that the awesome friends he still has that remained at the base school and he knows that not making the travel team has not doomed him to a life of being an inferior athlete. He gets that these things are fluid and do not define him, his friends or his future opportunities.


Wow, your son is an amazing kid. Mine has much more typical emotions and if she didn't make travel soccer when half her team did, she WOULD feel inferior to those that made it. Mine also doesn't feel "proud" to have been eligible for AAP because I didn't convey it as a "prideful" event. I'm the OP and the one struggling with the way to relay to my child that this is uneventful, and I see the battle I'm facing when her soon-to-be AAP classmates have, in large part, been told, or told in a way so it seems that it is, eventful, big, etc. Sigh.


I get it, OP. I didn't convey it as a "prideful" event or event at all really. But, that said, my kid changed schools for a program called the "Advanced Academic Program". Kind of hard to keep it from him that it had to do with the fact that he was identified as a student who could do well in with a full time advanced curriculum. So maybe "proud" is a strong word- but I think he enjoyed the fact that he was selected for this opportunity. I can't tell him that being chosen has absolutely nothing to do with his academic abilities, no more than I can tell him that the selection for travel soccer had nothing to do with playing abilities. What I tell him is that everyone has their own, unique set of strengths and these are not set in stone, especially at the age of 8. I tell him that there will always be someone smarter, faster, richer, stronger - whatever--- but that he should do his best at all he does, work hard, take advantage of opportunities and celebrate his strengths while recognizing/appreciating the talents of others.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 12:12     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Anonymous wrote:Wow. After reading this thread, it seems there is NO RIGHT WAY to explain to my child why he is in AAP without offending someone. For those offended, it appears that you are simply offended that AAP exist at all (at least the way that FCPS is currently administering the program.) I concede that there are parents who are just obnoxious about it, but even the parents who try to downplay it or explain it in a fair, sensible way, someone finds the wording offensive.

Soon after DC was found AAP eligible, he tried out for travel soccer and didn't make it when half his team did - the reason given was that he "wasn't quite ready yet." I think he was proud to have been found eligible for AAP and I think he was disappointed not to have made travel soccer - but neither made him feel superior or inferior to his friends. He knows everyone has strengths and weaknesses and we should celebrate our differences and not feel competitive or threatened about them. AND he understands that being in AAP does NOT mean he is smarter that the awesome friends he still has that remained at the base school and he knows that not making the travel team has not doomed him to a life of being an inferior athlete. He gets that these things are fluid and do not define him, his friends or his future opportunities.


Wow, your son is an amazing kid. Mine has much more typical emotions and if she didn't make travel soccer when half her team did, she WOULD feel inferior to those that made it. Mine also doesn't feel "proud" to have been eligible for AAP because I didn't convey it as a "prideful" event. I'm the OP and the one struggling with the way to relay to my child that this is uneventful, and I see the battle I'm facing when her soon-to-be AAP classmates have, in large part, been told, or told in a way so it seems that it is, eventful, big, etc. Sigh.
Anonymous
Post 05/02/2014 12:05     Subject: If you are one who does NOT want to create a sense of superiority in your AAP accepted child
Wow. After reading this thread, it seems there is NO RIGHT WAY to explain to my child why he is in AAP without offending someone. For those offended, it appears that you are simply offended that AAP exist at all (at least the way that FCPS is currently administering the program.) I concede that there are parents who are just obnoxious about it, but even the parents who try to downplay it or explain it in a fair, sensible way, someone finds the wording offensive.

Soon after DC was found AAP eligible, he tried out for travel soccer and didn't make it when half his team did - the reason given was that he "wasn't quite ready yet." I think he was proud to have been found eligible for AAP and I think he was disappointed not to have made travel soccer - but neither made him feel superior or inferior to his friends. He knows everyone has strengths and weaknesses and we should celebrate our differences and not feel competitive or threatened about them. AND he understands that being in AAP does NOT mean he is smarter that the awesome friends he still has that remained at the base school and he knows that not making the travel team has not doomed him to a life of being an inferior athlete. He gets that these things are fluid and do not define him, his friends or his future opportunities.