Anonymous
05/07/2014 15:45
Subject: Re:Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks to all the folks that left thoughtful replies. I did learn some valuable insights. First, there is a subset of Mom's that believe that they should sacrifice so that their children come first. I don't want to come off as an uncaring father, but I was raised, and believe in the value of the children being part of the family, and that their needs should be relegated to the greater needs of the family. I find that is not the case today. It is helpful to read in DCUM that my wife's view is shared by other DWs on DCUM.
I suspect that a large portion of my wife's anger stems from her wanting to provide for the children and that my taking on risk to grow a business is viewed as selfish. That I should not chase my dreams so that I can provide for the family; perhaps I am selfish. And not to be a romantic I am not providing a better example of believing in myself and working hard on my own endeavors, rather than being the company man waiting to get shot at 55 - what the heck type example is that ? So, I think part of the issue is the difference between male and female optics. Well truth be told, we cannot guarantee that our children will live stress free lives - there will be the ups and downs that are part of life. So, my view is to teach them fortitude, and I suspect my wife would like to be able to provide a very fortunate upbringing.
I think when women go through menopause they change; since they were little girls playing with dolls all they wanted was babies. I believe during and after menopause that changes; natures way of telling them that they can no longer bear children. I think this affects their view, and bluntly, their need for men. I am actually starting to wonder if the typical male mid life crisis is not precipitated by his spouse's menopause. The DW can howl, but I know from experience my wife was never as sexual as she was in her mid forties. I believe that was mother nature at play - pushing the species to procreate. After menopause no sexual desire. So, what does the DH do ? So, when you do not have sex for years, is it so strange that the DH starts looking, and in some cases, chasing younger women ? Or trying to recreate the opportunities of his youth as he comes home to a sexless, logistics based marriage ? Can you really blame him ?
When I was younger I didn't marry for passion because I feared that would ebb; I married for respect, shared values, and someone that I thought would be a good mother. The girl the family approved of; I think the mistake was that perhaps I should not have been so logical. An intense love may have helped weather the storm. A marriage shouldn't simply be a business deal. Starting to think to alot of DWs it is...snag me a rich guy so I can live in a beautiful house and baby my babies. Not all women, but I'd say a bulk of the women driving the black SUVs in the affluent towns across the country. And that's why they work so hard to look good in the yoga pants - not that he is going to get any.
Thanks again for all the replies.
You are quite the throwback. My DH married ME for my earning potential. I totally agree as someone who is risk averse that your wife may be very stressed with your business.
You are wrong. You can marry for passion (love) as well as respect, shared values as well as someone who would be a good parent. I did. (Although, I didn't know whether or not my DH would be a good parent. While we were dating, he said he wanted kids. After we got married, he said he didn't care if we had kids or not. Then I got pregnant. Turns out, he's a great father. He was unsure of himself because he had never been around kids. But he is far more patient with our DC than I ever expected him to be.
You made some errors by not marrying for love as well. So why do you now blame your wife for not having any passion when you didn't to begin with?
Taking a risk so late in life would upset any risk averse people. Perhaps you should have come to this decision as a couple rather than you deciding that you wanted to do this. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I believe I read that you made the decision yourself. That's a big no no when it comes to marriage. Any big decisions need to be made jointly. Discuss your fears and hopes and then come to a LOGICAL decision. Your business (the way you address it) sounds like a fantasy. You may succeed but chances are you will fail (most businesses do). I hope you do succeed, but it takes hard work and a committed relationship to do so.
You owe your wife an apology for being an ass. But you both need to go to counseling to work on your marriage.
Anonymous
05/07/2014 15:36
Subject: Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:I think OP and DW sound like they have more problems than just this leftovers issue.
+1000
Anonymous
05/07/2014 14:47
Subject: Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:I think there's a LOT going on here. I wonder how much you did to help get Easter on the table. Was she doing the dishes and cleaning up while you took your nap? I'm not saying she's right, I'm saying I wonder what's her side of the story. You feel like a victim here, but maybe she has a different point of view. Maybe she puts her kids first, you second, and herself LAST and she's sick of it?
Marriage counseling. You guys need to communicate.
Totally agree. Couldn't have said it better myself. You have resentments, and so does she. Go to counseling and figure out how to create the family you want to have.
Anonymous
05/07/2014 10:41
Subject: Re:Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks to all the folks that left thoughtful replies. I did learn some valuable insights. First, there is a subset of Mom's that believe that they should sacrifice so that their children come first. I don't want to come off as an uncaring father, but I was raised, and believe in the value of the children being part of the family, and that their needs should be relegated to the greater needs of the family. I find that is not the case today. It is helpful to read in DCUM that my wife's view is shared by other DWs on DCUM.
I suspect that a large portion of my wife's anger stems from her wanting to provide for the children and that my taking on risk to grow a business is viewed as selfish. That I should not chase my dreams so that I can provide for the family; perhaps I am selfish. And not to be a romantic I am not providing a better example of believing in myself and working hard on my own endeavors, rather than being the company man waiting to get shot at 55 - what the heck type example is that ? So, I think part of the issue is the difference between male and female optics. Well truth be told, we cannot guarantee that our children will live stress free lives - there will be the ups and downs that are part of life. So, my view is to teach them fortitude, and I suspect my wife would like to be able to provide a very fortunate upbringing.
I think when women go through menopause they change; since they were little girls playing with dolls all they wanted was babies. I believe during and after menopause that changes; natures way of telling them that they can no longer bear children. I think this affects their view, and bluntly, their need for men. I am actually starting to wonder if the typical male mid life crisis is not precipitated by his spouse's menopause. The DW can howl, but I know from experience my wife was never as sexual as she was in her mid forties. I believe that was mother nature at play - pushing the species to procreate. After menopause no sexual desire. So, what does the DH do ? So, when you do not have sex for years, is it so strange that the DH starts looking, and in some cases, chasing younger women ? Or trying to recreate the opportunities of his youth as he comes home to a sexless, logistics based marriage ? Can you really blame him ?
When I was younger I didn't marry for passion because I feared that would ebb; I married for respect, shared values, and someone that I thought would be a good mother. The girl the family approved of; I think the mistake was that perhaps I should not have been so logical. An intense love may have helped weather the storm. A marriage shouldn't simply be a business deal. Starting to think to alot of DWs it is...snag me a rich guy so I can live in a beautiful house and baby my babies. Not all women, but I'd say a bulk of the women driving the black SUVs in the affluent towns across the country. And that's why they work so hard to look good in the yoga pants - not that he is going to get any.
Thanks again for all the replies.
You are quite the throwback. My DH married ME for my earning potential. I totally agree as someone who is risk averse that your wife may be very stressed with your business.
Anonymous
05/07/2014 09:39
Subject: Re:Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks to all the folks that left thoughtful replies. I did learn some valuable insights. First, there is a subset of Mom's that believe that they should sacrifice so that their children come first. I don't want to come off as an uncaring father, but I was raised, and believe in the value of the children being part of the family, and that their needs should be relegated to the greater needs of the family. I find that is not the case today. It is helpful to read in DCUM that my wife's view is shared by other DWs on DCUM.
I suspect that a large portion of my wife's anger stems from her wanting to provide for the children and that my taking on risk to grow a business is viewed as selfish. That I should not chase my dreams so that I can provide for the family; perhaps I am selfish. And not to be a romantic I am not providing a better example of believing in myself and working hard on my own endeavors, rather than being the company man waiting to get shot at 55 - what the heck type example is that ? So, I think part of the issue is the difference between male and female optics. Well truth be told, we cannot guarantee that our children will live stress free lives - there will be the ups and downs that are part of life. So, my view is to teach them fortitude, and I suspect my wife would like to be able to provide a very fortunate upbringing.
I think when women go through menopause they change; since they were little girls playing with dolls all they wanted was babies. I believe during and after menopause that changes; natures way of telling them that they can no longer bear children. I think this affects their view, and bluntly, their need for men. I am actually starting to wonder if the typical male mid life crisis is not precipitated by his spouse's menopause. The DW can howl, but I know from experience my wife was never as sexual as she was in her mid forties. I believe that was mother nature at play - pushing the species to procreate. After menopause no sexual desire. So, what does the DH do ? So, when you do not have sex for years, is it so strange that the DH starts looking, and in some cases, chasing younger women ? Or trying to recreate the opportunities of his youth as he comes home to a sexless, logistics based marriage ? Can you really blame him ?
When I was younger I didn't marry for passion because I feared that would ebb; I married for respect, shared values, and someone that I thought would be a good mother. The girl the family approved of; I think the mistake was that perhaps I should not have been so logical. An intense love may have helped weather the storm. A marriage shouldn't simply be a business deal. Starting to think to alot of DWs it is...snag me a rich guy so I can live in a beautiful house and baby my babies. Not all women, but I'd say a bulk of the women driving the black SUVs in the affluent towns across the country. And that's why they work so hard to look good in the yoga pants - not that he is going to get any.
Thanks again for all the replies.
This. Part of the problem with couples that "put the children first" is that at 18, when the dear ones have flown the coop, there is nothing left for the couple. You, as a couple existed before the children, and you exist after them. Your job is to help them spread their wings so they can fly on their own. It is no use protecting them from life's regular ups and downs. That is the whole problem with "helicopter" parents. You need to let your kids make their own mistakes and learn from them.
It is also the reason that all financial advisors say save for retirement first and then college. I cannot afford to do both, so DD will need to figure out how to pay at least a good portion of her own education. That is life. Tough it out!
Anonymous
05/07/2014 06:53
Subject: Re:Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks to all the folks that left thoughtful replies. I did learn some valuable insights. First, there is a subset of Mom's that believe that they should sacrifice so that their children come first. I don't want to come off as an uncaring father, but I was raised, and believe in the value of the children being part of the family, and that their needs should be relegated to the greater needs of the family. I find that is not the case today. It is helpful to read in DCUM that my wife's view is shared by other DWs on DCUM.
I suspect that a large portion of my wife's anger stems from her wanting to provide for the children and that my taking on risk to grow a business is viewed as selfish. That I should not chase my dreams so that I can provide for the family; perhaps I am selfish. And not to be a romantic I am not providing a better example of believing in myself and working hard on my own endeavors, rather than being the company man waiting to get shot at 55 - what the heck type example is that ? So, I think part of the issue is the difference between male and female optics. Well truth be told, we cannot guarantee that our children will live stress free lives - there will be the ups and downs that are part of life. So, my view is to teach them fortitude, and I suspect my wife would like to be able to provide a very fortunate upbringing.
I think when women go through menopause they change; since they were little girls playing with dolls all they wanted was babies. I believe during and after menopause that changes; natures way of telling them that they can no longer bear children. I think this affects their view, and bluntly, their need for men. I am actually starting to wonder if the typical male mid life crisis is not precipitated by his spouse's menopause. The DW can howl, but I know from experience my wife was never as sexual as she was in her mid forties. I believe that was mother nature at play - pushing the species to procreate. After menopause no sexual desire. So, what does the DH do ? So, when you do not have sex for years, is it so strange that the DH starts looking, and in some cases, chasing younger women ? Or trying to recreate the opportunities of his youth as he comes home to a sexless, logistics based marriage ? Can you really blame him ?
When I was younger I didn't marry for passion because I feared that would ebb; I married for respect, shared values, and someone that I thought would be a good mother. The girl the family approved of; I think the mistake was that perhaps I should not have been so logical. An intense love may have helped weather the storm. A marriage shouldn't simply be a business deal. Starting to think to alot of DWs it is...snag me a rich guy so I can live in a beautiful house and baby my babies. Not all women, but I'd say a bulk of the women driving the black SUVs in the affluent towns across the country. And that's why they work so hard to look good in the yoga pants - not that he is going to get any.
Thanks again for all the replies.
PP here. I was sort of on your side before this. I think you have to own your stuff. Assuming your wife did not pull a switcheroo, you chose someone that wanted the husband to provide while she raised the kids. You could have chosen someone that had her own career/money and did not want to SAH. However, the tradeoff would have been that there would have been less flexibility for you. It's harder to pick up and move when you have dual careers AND you would have been expected to do more around the house and with the kids. You most likely could not concentrate on your business 100% because you have doctor appts, snow days, sick days etc that have to be covered and being self employed may have made your job more flexible. If your business includes a lot of travel, when the kids were young there would have been heck to pay if she worked full-time and did all the childcare while you traveled. If you lived the lifestyle of both salaries, it would have been no less stressful in the downturn and possibly even more pressure on you because DW has a job already so that couldn't be the solution to help.
Anonymous
05/07/2014 02:39
Subject: Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:Huh. Im with DW on this. Its not the end of the world if you eat the pie but honestly if the kids prefer the pie why not eat the cake. Its not like you didn't have another option and you did sleep through desert. Did you consider that perhaps she too wants the pie but has left it for the kids. I guess in my mind my kids will always come first before DH and myself. Its not that you are a an after thought its just that you are an adult, husband and father all these things come after children. It will never end, the kids will always come first only until they have children of their own in which case you (and your wife) will fall farther down the pole. Sorry. Its just how it goes.
No, it doesn't. Childen's needs must come first, but childrens wants (ie preferred desert) should not come first, certainly not always. This is something children need to learn for their own benefit, first and foremost. Your philosophy is a road to disaster.
Anonymous
05/06/2014 23:21
Subject: Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:I have to admit, part of my parenting philosophy is that parents sacrifice for their kids. So if there's not enough dinner to go around, I'd feed the kids first, & expect my husband & I to eat something else. Likewise, if it's chilly outside, I'll give my kid my hoody & let myself be cold.
It might be an issue of disrespect, but it also might be a difference in how you & your wife view the responsibilities of parenting.
Exactly my thoughts. We put our kids needs first. My DH and I sacrifice for them. I would be pretty annoyed and turned off if I did all the sacrificing and my DH felt entitled to gobble whatever he wanted (because he's the "king" --- barf!). It seems like you put your self above the needs of anyone else. Sometimes "successful" men do that.
Also, it sounds like you made no real effort to help at Easter. Making a big deal about running to the store? Maybe you should do the next holiday. It's a lot of planning, a lot of work.
Anonymous
05/03/2014 19:28
Subject: Re:Don't eat that
OP here. Thanks to all the folks that left thoughtful replies. I did learn some valuable insights. First, there is a subset of Mom's that believe that they should sacrifice so that their children come first. I don't want to come off as an uncaring father, but I was raised, and believe in the value of the children being part of the family, and that their needs should be relegated to the greater needs of the family. I find that is not the case today. It is helpful to read in DCUM that my wife's view is shared by other DWs on DCUM.
I suspect that a large portion of my wife's anger stems from her wanting to provide for the children and that my taking on risk to grow a business is viewed as selfish. That I should not chase my dreams so that I can provide for the family; perhaps I am selfish. And not to be a romantic I am not providing a better example of believing in myself and working hard on my own endeavors, rather than being the company man waiting to get shot at 55 - what the heck type example is that ? So, I think part of the issue is the difference between male and female optics. Well truth be told, we cannot guarantee that our children will live stress free lives - there will be the ups and downs that are part of life. So, my view is to teach them fortitude, and I suspect my wife would like to be able to provide a very fortunate upbringing.
I think when women go through menopause they change; since they were little girls playing with dolls all they wanted was babies. I believe during and after menopause that changes; natures way of telling them that they can no longer bear children. I think this affects their view, and bluntly, their need for men. I am actually starting to wonder if the typical male mid life crisis is not precipitated by his spouse's menopause. The DW can howl, but I know from experience my wife was never as sexual as she was in her mid forties. I believe that was mother nature at play - pushing the species to procreate. After menopause no sexual desire. So, what does the DH do ? So, when you do not have sex for years, is it so strange that the DH starts looking, and in some cases, chasing younger women ? Or trying to recreate the opportunities of his youth as he comes home to a sexless, logistics based marriage ? Can you really blame him ?
When I was younger I didn't marry for passion because I feared that would ebb; I married for respect, shared values, and someone that I thought would be a good mother. The girl the family approved of; I think the mistake was that perhaps I should not have been so logical. An intense love may have helped weather the storm. A marriage shouldn't simply be a business deal. Starting to think to alot of DWs it is...snag me a rich guy so I can live in a beautiful house and baby my babies. Not all women, but I'd say a bulk of the women driving the black SUVs in the affluent towns across the country. And that's why they work so hard to look good in the yoga pants - not that he is going to get any.
Thanks again for all the replies.
I suspect that a large portion of my wife's anger stems from her wanting to provide for the children and that my taking on risk to grow a business is viewed as selfish. That I should not chase my dreams so that I can provide for the family; perhaps I am selfish. And not to be a romantic I am not providing a better example of believing in myself and working hard on my own endeavors, rather than being the company man waiting to get shot at 55 - what the heck type example is that ? So, I think part of the issue is the difference between male and female optics. Well truth be told, we cannot guarantee that our children will live stress free lives - there will be the ups and downs that are part of life. So, my view is to teach them fortitude, and I suspect my wife would like to be able to provide a very fortunate upbringing.
I think when women go through menopause they change; since they were little girls playing with dolls all they wanted was babies. I believe during and after menopause that changes; natures way of telling them that they can no longer bear children. I think this affects their view, and bluntly, their need for men. I am actually starting to wonder if the typical male mid life crisis is not precipitated by his spouse's menopause. The DW can howl, but I know from experience my wife was never as sexual as she was in her mid forties. I believe that was mother nature at play - pushing the species to procreate. After menopause no sexual desire. So, what does the DH do ? So, when you do not have sex for years, is it so strange that the DH starts looking, and in some cases, chasing younger women ? Or trying to recreate the opportunities of his youth as he comes home to a sexless, logistics based marriage ? Can you really blame him ?
When I was younger I didn't marry for passion because I feared that would ebb; I married for respect, shared values, and someone that I thought would be a good mother. The girl the family approved of; I think the mistake was that perhaps I should not have been so logical. An intense love may have helped weather the storm. A marriage shouldn't simply be a business deal. Starting to think to alot of DWs it is...snag me a rich guy so I can live in a beautiful house and baby my babies. Not all women, but I'd say a bulk of the women driving the black SUVs in the affluent towns across the country. And that's why they work so hard to look good in the yoga pants - not that he is going to get any.
Thanks again for all the replies.
Anonymous
04/26/2014 21:16
Subject: Don't eat that
This is a tough one. From OPs post alone, it sounds
Like his wife is a limited and narrow person who is, in short, an ingrate. He is open to the forces that shaped her, but it sounds like she is closed off from similar insights, which is a pretty severe insight deficit.
OP, you are a person who definitely has shown cultivation of some virtues, and the desire to cultivate virtues. I am on the same page with that. In my opinion, that
is what a life is all about. But is your wife on that page?
IMO, as a person who has family that just wants to act badly and be dishonest, you have to claim your authority and right place, while dissing the rest. In other words, thank her for her work in doing easter, and then refuse to be relegated to leftovers. Assert your place, establish your worth, nonnegotiable, period. You supported her for years. You are a team. She needs to pull the sled too, and also to explicitly appreciate your effort. It may sound silly, or old school but men eat more. One easy way to appreciate men is to flip pin' feed them what they want, which is usually meat and apple pie, with ice cream. It isn't hard!
If she is an ingrate, you need to acknowledge and just do what is right, regardless. You have already proven your worth in this relationship. Do not disrespect yourself, just because she is ungrateful.
Like his wife is a limited and narrow person who is, in short, an ingrate. He is open to the forces that shaped her, but it sounds like she is closed off from similar insights, which is a pretty severe insight deficit.
OP, you are a person who definitely has shown cultivation of some virtues, and the desire to cultivate virtues. I am on the same page with that. In my opinion, that
is what a life is all about. But is your wife on that page?
IMO, as a person who has family that just wants to act badly and be dishonest, you have to claim your authority and right place, while dissing the rest. In other words, thank her for her work in doing easter, and then refuse to be relegated to leftovers. Assert your place, establish your worth, nonnegotiable, period. You supported her for years. You are a team. She needs to pull the sled too, and also to explicitly appreciate your effort. It may sound silly, or old school but men eat more. One easy way to appreciate men is to flip pin' feed them what they want, which is usually meat and apple pie, with ice cream. It isn't hard!
If she is an ingrate, you need to acknowledge and just do what is right, regardless. You have already proven your worth in this relationship. Do not disrespect yourself, just because she is ungrateful.
Anonymous
04/25/2014 16:45
Subject: Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have to admit, part of my parenting philosophy is that parents sacrifice for their kids. So if there's not enough dinner to go around, I'd feed the kids first, & expect my husband & I to eat something else. Likewise, if it's chilly outside, I'll give my kid my hoody & let myself be cold.
It might be an issue of disrespect, but it also might be a difference in how you & your wife view the responsibilities of parenting.
Do you put the oxygen mask on the kids first on the plane? You do know why they tell you to take care of yourself first don't you? Idiot!
You know why they tell you to put the oxygen mask on yourself first? Because they know many parents' practice is to put it on their child first, and loss of pressure on an aircraft is an exception to that rule. And hey, thanks for the name-calling!
Anonymous
04/25/2014 16:36
Subject: Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:I have to admit, part of my parenting philosophy is that parents sacrifice for their kids. So if there's not enough dinner to go around, I'd feed the kids first, & expect my husband & I to eat something else. Likewise, if it's chilly outside, I'll give my kid my hoody & let myself be cold.
It might be an issue of disrespect, but it also might be a difference in how you & your wife view the responsibilities of parenting.
Do you put the oxygen mask on the kids first on the plane? You do know why they tell you to take care of yourself first don't you? Idiot!
Anonymous
04/25/2014 16:27
Subject: Re:Don't eat that
NP here. I think it comes down to the dynamics in DW's family growing up. Either she is copying her mother's behavior and thought it worked well or she was very disappointed, maybe dad was king of the castle and mom was subservient and DW vowed never to do that. The root of issues usually go back to childhood in some fashion. First step is recognizing the behavior, next step is being willing to change the behavior.
We are obviously hearing one side of the story and you mentioned DW is risk averse. Were you a team when you decided to start your own business or was this a solo decision? Were you part of raising the kids or was this always the wife's domain? I'll be honest that I am not a stay at home spouse. But if you make one person's 100% responsible for the domestic front and then ask him/her to change assignments late in the game and take on additional responsibility, I can see how they feel resentful. There is a difference between everyone feeling like they have an assignment versus everyone working together on a team. Part of the difference is communication, checking in with each other, asking the other person's opinion. Part of it is showing appreciation for what the other person does. Everyone wants to feel appreciated. In fact,one of the top reasons people say they split up is because they don't feel appreciated by the partner. The answer for you and DW is somewhere in understanding how the past has influenced both of you and figuring out why you no longer appreciate each other. You need to have an honest conversation about either getting things back on track or making an exit plan because what you are both doing isn't working.
We are obviously hearing one side of the story and you mentioned DW is risk averse. Were you a team when you decided to start your own business or was this a solo decision? Were you part of raising the kids or was this always the wife's domain? I'll be honest that I am not a stay at home spouse. But if you make one person's 100% responsible for the domestic front and then ask him/her to change assignments late in the game and take on additional responsibility, I can see how they feel resentful. There is a difference between everyone feeling like they have an assignment versus everyone working together on a team. Part of the difference is communication, checking in with each other, asking the other person's opinion. Part of it is showing appreciation for what the other person does. Everyone wants to feel appreciated. In fact,one of the top reasons people say they split up is because they don't feel appreciated by the partner. The answer for you and DW is somewhere in understanding how the past has influenced both of you and figuring out why you no longer appreciate each other. You need to have an honest conversation about either getting things back on track or making an exit plan because what you are both doing isn't working.
Anonymous
04/24/2014 16:12
Subject: Don't eat that
Anonymous wrote:where is op???
Out buying pie. If you know what I mean...
Anonymous
04/24/2014 13:28
Subject: Don't eat that
where is op???