Anonymous
03/30/2014 19:13
Subject: Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Two teacher household here. We've talked about the benefits of transferring to a Title I school which are mainly class size and support. I know I personally feel like my abilities to do what I need to do are just spread way to thin. For example, just consider the DRA assessment. I am responsible for making sure that 56 students are assessed in the spring (I have two classes of 29 and 27 in each). A class of 20 would free up a lot of time. It would be one or two less reading groups to meet with, allowing me to meet with the groups I have more often.
At your current school, how often do you have to figure out how to reach a kid who just arrived in the USA and has never attended school in his/her home country? Have you had students who are under 10 years old who can't get their homework done because they had to 'babysit' their younger siblings (including preparing dinner and changing diapers) while their parents go to work? Do you have students who need the school to provide them with food to take home because they have no food at home? Do you have to do VGLA binders? Look for interpreters for your parent-teacher conferences? The grass isn't greener in a Title I school.
9:54 here. The answer is no, I don't have to deal with those issues in a large capacity. You need to chill out a bit. You're reading more into what I wrote. I didn't say Title I was better. I focused on one aspect and that was class size and trying to meet the needs of the students (whatever they may be), with a class of 20 vs 29.
You need to understand that the class sizes are smaller because the kids are needier. You aren't comparing 2 equal groups in terms of what you need to do as a teacher to help the students to be successful or to even meet the minimum benchmarks.
I do understand that.Obviously the kids are needier. I'm not comparing academic or economic needs. Just because the majority of my students bring in background knowledge and have home support doesn't mean I can leave them to their own devices. They are still children in a classroom who need remediation and enrichment. You need to understand that I am still expected to show at least a year's growth for each student. I am still expected to remediate and enrich for each of the 29 that I have. I am supposed to meet with those below grade level almost daily and "double dip" their guided reading groups in addition to meeting with the others in their guided reading or literature circle groups. Whether the school is a Title I school or not, there are only so many minutes in a day during which we can meet with these students and according to some of the numbers in this thread the total number of students in a class can be a difference of 15 or more.
I couldn't agree with you more. The ideal but not realistic number is no more than 15 in these lower elem classes to see real progress class wide. However, with these large class sizes, you just have to do the best you can. As a teacher, you find yourself focusing on those needier kids and meanwhile, the more advanced children are left to also help the needier ones as well if they are mature enough. So there isn't as much learning for the advanced lower elem kids as the teacher might like but it is what it is. This is why you will hear parents and teachers say that everyone will eventually even out. I see it from both sides. I even understand when I have some parents opt for private within the first week of school. They first ask me how I will manage with 28 kids of various levels, and I tell them I will do my best and use my training. Plus, there is little parent involvement, ESP by 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and so on. Sign up sheets are up starting from Orientation. Wouldn't you know that out of 28 parents, I get one signature. I have not lost hope. I know of other teachers in public and private that have awesome parent involvement in the classroom from guest speakers, projects, parties, etc. I understand that we are all working full time, but you would think that in a class of 28 with no aide that parents would rally to help. I find it ironic how quickly they rally when they are not seeing the results they want. In the end, it has to be a team effort. What you do is what you get. Teachers are not magicians or miracle workers.
Anonymous
03/30/2014 16:39
Subject: Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Two teacher household here. We've talked about the benefits of transferring to a Title I school which are mainly class size and support. I know I personally feel like my abilities to do what I need to do are just spread way to thin. For example, just consider the DRA assessment. I am responsible for making sure that 56 students are assessed in the spring (I have two classes of 29 and 27 in each). A class of 20 would free up a lot of time. It would be one or two less reading groups to meet with, allowing me to meet with the groups I have more often.
At your current school, how often do you have to figure out how to reach a kid who just arrived in the USA and has never attended school in his/her home country? Have you had students who are under 10 years old who can't get their homework done because they had to 'babysit' their younger siblings (including preparing dinner and changing diapers) while their parents go to work? Do you have students who need the school to provide them with food to take home because they have no food at home? Do you have to do VGLA binders? Look for interpreters for your parent-teacher conferences? The grass isn't greener in a Title I school.
9:54 here. The answer is no, I don't have to deal with those issues in a large capacity. You need to chill out a bit. You're reading more into what I wrote. I didn't say Title I was better. I focused on one aspect and that was class size and trying to meet the needs of the students (whatever they may be), with a class of 20 vs 29.
You need to understand that the class sizes are smaller because the kids are needier. You aren't comparing 2 equal groups in terms of what you need to do as a teacher to help the students to be successful or to even meet the minimum benchmarks.
I do understand that.
Obviously the kids are needier. I'm not comparing academic or economic needs. Just because the majority of my students bring in background knowledge and have home support doesn't mean I can leave them to their own devices. They are still children in a classroom who need remediation and enrichment. You need to understand that I am still expected to show at least a year's growth for each student. I am still expected to remediate and enrich for each of the 29 that I have. I am supposed to meet with those below grade level almost daily and "double dip" their guided reading groups in addition to meeting with the others in their guided reading or literature circle groups. Whether the school is a Title I school or not, there are only so many minutes in a day during which we can meet with these students and according to some of the numbers in this thread the total number of students in a class can be a difference of 15 or more.
Anonymous
03/30/2014 14:37
Subject: Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Two teacher household here. We've talked about the benefits of transferring to a Title I school which are mainly class size and support. I know I personally feel like my abilities to do what I need to do are just spread way to thin. For example, just consider the DRA assessment. I am responsible for making sure that 56 students are assessed in the spring (I have two classes of 29 and 27 in each). A class of 20 would free up a lot of time. It would be one or two less reading groups to meet with, allowing me to meet with the groups I have more often.
At your current school, how often do you have to figure out how to reach a kid who just arrived in the USA and has never attended school in his/her home country? Have you had students who are under 10 years old who can't get their homework done because they had to 'babysit' their younger siblings (including preparing dinner and changing diapers) while their parents go to work? Do you have students who need the school to provide them with food to take home because they have no food at home? Do you have to do VGLA binders? Look for interpreters for your parent-teacher conferences? The grass isn't greener in a Title I school.
9:54 here. The answer is no, I don't have to deal with those issues in a large capacity. You need to chill out a bit. You're reading more into what I wrote. I didn't say Title I was better. I focused on one aspect and that was class size and trying to meet the needs of the students (whatever they may be), with a class of 20 vs 29.
You need to understand that the class sizes are smaller because the kids are needier. You aren't comparing 2 equal groups in terms of what you need to do as a teacher to help the students to be successful or to even meet the minimum benchmarks.
Anonymous
03/30/2014 13:54
Subject: Re:Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:9:54 If children were living legally in housing you wouldn't get such huge numbers of children in one area all having the same difficult needs. The other children who speak english would be helping them out. Sleepy Hollow for instance is in a very desirable area commute wise to DC. And yet somehow all of these title 1 students live there. Why is this? How can these families afford an area that far inside the beltway when we hear teachers living all the way out in Winchester and commuting in to FCPS? How can Fairfax County say they are a top school when they are attracting families like the ones you describe to live there illegally and then giving all of their resources to them? How can they attract a tax base that would even pay for the students that are living their legally and need help?
9:54 here.
Sorry. I'm confused. I didn't describe any families or difficult needs.
Anonymous
03/30/2014 13:13
Subject: Re:Ratios ratios
9:54 If children were living legally in housing you wouldn't get such huge numbers of children in one area all having the same difficult needs. The other children who speak english would be helping them out. Sleepy Hollow for instance is in a very desirable area commute wise to DC. And yet somehow all of these title 1 students live there. Why is this? How can these families afford an area that far inside the beltway when we hear teachers living all the way out in Winchester and commuting in to FCPS? How can Fairfax County say they are a top school when they are attracting families like the ones you describe to live there illegally and then giving all of their resources to them? How can they attract a tax base that would even pay for the students that are living their legally and need help?
Anonymous
03/30/2014 12:32
Subject: Re:Ratios ratios
9:54, 11:08. I am 21:00, and am also a teacher at a different FCPS than my children attend. The school I teach at is not Title I, but is very close to meeting the criteria. I have been giving a lot of thought to what is really easier as we turn in our intent forms for next year.
As a teacher, I would say that my biggest struggles are:
1) finding ways to really make sure I can communicate with students who come in with zero English knowledge mid-year. I am thankful that I teach a special subject that does not always require English language knowledge at least.
2) Lack of parent involvement. This comes in to play when we need help, and also when we are dealing with struggles, and behavior issues, and parents are not responsive to calls, or notes (even translated)
3) High mobility rate: My school has a VERY VERY high mobility rate. It is very difficult to even keep track, even though our office is great about notifications. When 4-5 come every week, it is easy to get behind. Plus, just the new faces so often, who come from many different situations, makes it tough to keep the students moving ahead.
But, every day I am grateful that I can see the positive impact I have on students. I can also see how for many of them, my subject area is one where they can shine, even if they struggle academically. I really like my boss, and most of my colleagues.
As a parent of kids in a different Title I school than where I teach my struggles are
1) fostering outside relationships when parents are unresponsive, or just not available to get together due to work, etc.
The class size has been wonderful though, and the teachers are top-notch. My children are around students from all races, and socio-economic backgrounds, and know this as normal. I like that aspect.
I have considered a teacher transfer though. So that I might be somewhere that I could have more outside support from parents. My #1 hesitation is class size. My #2 hesitation is the unknown factor with a new boss.
Time will tell...
As a teacher, I would say that my biggest struggles are:
1) finding ways to really make sure I can communicate with students who come in with zero English knowledge mid-year. I am thankful that I teach a special subject that does not always require English language knowledge at least.
2) Lack of parent involvement. This comes in to play when we need help, and also when we are dealing with struggles, and behavior issues, and parents are not responsive to calls, or notes (even translated)
3) High mobility rate: My school has a VERY VERY high mobility rate. It is very difficult to even keep track, even though our office is great about notifications. When 4-5 come every week, it is easy to get behind. Plus, just the new faces so often, who come from many different situations, makes it tough to keep the students moving ahead.
But, every day I am grateful that I can see the positive impact I have on students. I can also see how for many of them, my subject area is one where they can shine, even if they struggle academically. I really like my boss, and most of my colleagues.
As a parent of kids in a different Title I school than where I teach my struggles are
1) fostering outside relationships when parents are unresponsive, or just not available to get together due to work, etc.
The class size has been wonderful though, and the teachers are top-notch. My children are around students from all races, and socio-economic backgrounds, and know this as normal. I like that aspect.
I have considered a teacher transfer though. So that I might be somewhere that I could have more outside support from parents. My #1 hesitation is class size. My #2 hesitation is the unknown factor with a new boss.
Time will tell...
Anonymous
03/30/2014 11:26
Subject: Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Two teacher household here. We've talked about the benefits of transferring to a Title I school which are mainly class size and support. I know I personally feel like my abilities to do what I need to do are just spread way to thin. For example, just consider the DRA assessment. I am responsible for making sure that 56 students are assessed in the spring (I have two classes of 29 and 27 in each). A class of 20 would free up a lot of time. It would be one or two less reading groups to meet with, allowing me to meet with the groups I have more often.
At your current school, how often do you have to figure out how to reach a kid who just arrived in the USA and has never attended school in his/her home country? Have you had students who are under 10 years old who can't get their homework done because they had to 'babysit' their younger siblings (including preparing dinner and changing diapers) while their parents go to work? Do you have students who need the school to provide them with food to take home because they have no food at home? Do you have to do VGLA binders? Look for interpreters for your parent-teacher conferences? The grass isn't greener in a Title I school.
9:54 here. The answer is no, I don't have to deal with those issues in a large capacity. You need to chill out a bit. You're reading more into what I wrote. I didn't say Title I was better. I focused on one aspect and that was class size and trying to meet the needs of the students (whatever they may be), with a class of 20 vs 29.
Anonymous
03/30/2014 11:08
Subject: Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:Two teacher household here. We've talked about the benefits of transferring to a Title I school which are mainly class size and support. I know I personally feel like my abilities to do what I need to do are just spread way to thin. For example, just consider the DRA assessment. I am responsible for making sure that 56 students are assessed in the spring (I have two classes of 29 and 27 in each). A class of 20 would free up a lot of time. It would be one or two less reading groups to meet with, allowing me to meet with the groups I have more often.
At your current school, how often do you have to figure out how to reach a kid who just arrived in the USA and has never attended school in his/her home country? Have you had students who are under 10 years old who can't get their homework done because they had to 'babysit' their younger siblings (including preparing dinner and changing diapers) while their parents go to work? Do you have students who need the school to provide them with food to take home because they have no food at home? Do you have to do VGLA binders? Look for interpreters for your parent-teacher conferences? The grass isn't greener in a Title I school.
Anonymous
03/30/2014 09:55
Subject: Ratios ratios
*too thin (Have to stave off the grammar police!). :0)
Anonymous
03/30/2014 09:54
Subject: Ratios ratios
Two teacher household here. We've talked about the benefits of transferring to a Title I school which are mainly class size and support. I know I personally feel like my abilities to do what I need to do are just spread way to thin. For example, just consider the DRA assessment. I am responsible for making sure that 56 students are assessed in the spring (I have two classes of 29 and 27 in each). A class of 20 would free up a lot of time. It would be one or two less reading groups to meet with, allowing me to meet with the groups I have more often.
Anonymous
03/30/2014 06:27
Subject: Re:Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:We are at a Title I school. Last year my son's 1st grade had 14. It was higher just before school started, but they hit a class size threshold and got an additional teacher. Add to this that his class had a number of children who needed Special Ed. Support ( mine included ), it was a dream for the kids and teacher. I have one in 1st and one in 2nd this year, both are under 20. High ESOL, and FARMS rates. We've been really happy.
quote=Anonymous]Anonymous wrote:As I read the original post, there is an assistant in the room, so the staff to student ratio is 19:1.
37 is still not acceptable. Especially not when there are schools with less than 15.
I keep seeing this number thrown around - schools with fewer than 15 kids in a classroom. I know of no general education classrooms that have fewer than 15 kids, and we are at a school with a high percentage of FRM eligible students. I'm beginning to think that the 15 student classroom is like the Lock Ness Monster or Bigfoot - people catch glimpses but no one has actually had a child in one. If you are, I'd love to hear it. Even at our school, while the published class size average is 19 for our school, that does not take into account the many SPED eligible children that are mainstreamed, and are in the classrooms for the full day, as the FCPS way of counting kids for SPED vs. Gen Ed does not include the SPED kids in the ratio, at least on the Dashboard. So at our school, where our count is listed at 19 average, my oldest child's classroom has 27 and the other class has 28 in there, and this is with ALL of the children accounted for. If they did a true class size average, including the kids that are in the classroom all day, our school average is closer to 25 due to a very high number of SPED eligible kids that are not in a contained classroom. So while I'd love to see the classroom with 14-15 kids in it. I'm not sure that this really exists. Does anyone in FCPS actually have a Gen Ed classroom with 15 kids in it?
My DD's class has been either15 or 16 kids this year. I think it started at 16, a child left so it was 15 for a while, and then another child was added, bringing it back to 16. In addition to the teacher, there is usually a special ed assistant in the classroom. My DD says the special ed person is in the class a lot of the time. DD is in first grade at a Title I school.
Anonymous
03/29/2014 21:00
Subject: Re:Ratios ratios
We are at a Title I school. Last year my son's 1st grade had 14. It was higher just before school started, but they hit a class size threshold and got an additional teacher. Add to this that his class had a number of children who needed Special Ed. Support ( mine included ), it was a dream for the kids and teacher. I have one in 1st and one in 2nd this year, both are under 20. High ESOL, and FARMS rates. We've been really happy.
quote=Anonymous]
I keep seeing this number thrown around - schools with fewer than 15 kids in a classroom. I know of no general education classrooms that have fewer than 15 kids, and we are at a school with a high percentage of FRM eligible students. I'm beginning to think that the 15 student classroom is like the Lock Ness Monster or Bigfoot - people catch glimpses but no one has actually had a child in one. If you are, I'd love to hear it. Even at our school, while the published class size average is 19 for our school, that does not take into account the many SPED eligible children that are mainstreamed, and are in the classrooms for the full day, as the FCPS way of counting kids for SPED vs. Gen Ed does not include the SPED kids in the ratio, at least on the Dashboard. So at our school, where our count is listed at 19 average, my oldest child's classroom has 27 and the other class has 28 in there, and this is with ALL of the children accounted for. If they did a true class size average, including the kids that are in the classroom all day, our school average is closer to 25 due to a very high number of SPED eligible kids that are not in a contained classroom. So while I'd love to see the classroom with 14-15 kids in it. I'm not sure that this really exists. Does anyone in FCPS actually have a Gen Ed classroom with 15 kids in it?
quote=Anonymous]
Anonymous wrote:As I read the original post, there is an assistant in the room, so the staff to student ratio is 19:1.
37 is still not acceptable. Especially not when there are schools with less than 15.
I keep seeing this number thrown around - schools with fewer than 15 kids in a classroom. I know of no general education classrooms that have fewer than 15 kids, and we are at a school with a high percentage of FRM eligible students. I'm beginning to think that the 15 student classroom is like the Lock Ness Monster or Bigfoot - people catch glimpses but no one has actually had a child in one. If you are, I'd love to hear it. Even at our school, while the published class size average is 19 for our school, that does not take into account the many SPED eligible children that are mainstreamed, and are in the classrooms for the full day, as the FCPS way of counting kids for SPED vs. Gen Ed does not include the SPED kids in the ratio, at least on the Dashboard. So at our school, where our count is listed at 19 average, my oldest child's classroom has 27 and the other class has 28 in there, and this is with ALL of the children accounted for. If they did a true class size average, including the kids that are in the classroom all day, our school average is closer to 25 due to a very high number of SPED eligible kids that are not in a contained classroom. So while I'd love to see the classroom with 14-15 kids in it. I'm not sure that this really exists. Does anyone in FCPS actually have a Gen Ed classroom with 15 kids in it?
Anonymous
03/29/2014 16:42
Subject: Ratios ratios
History repeats itself. What comes around goes around. This makes me think of that song..."This land is our land..." haha. It should be more like, "This land is everyone's land." Not even the Native American Indians could overcome the whites when they barged their way in. As some people say, the U.S. has become the melting pot. Might as well just endure 
since no one, but the Native Americans, can really say, "We were here first." Lol.
since no one, but the Native Americans, can really say, "We were here first." Lol.
Anonymous
03/29/2014 16:29
Subject: Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:It was predicted that Fairfax and other counties will see this onslaught of attendance growth when PW Cty started enforcing citizenship checks from traffic incidents.
Yep. Fairfax Co took no action when PW started cracking down. Today we're screwed and everyone is wondering why. Uhhh...
Anonymous
03/29/2014 10:34
Subject: Ratios ratios
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mount Eagle: 16 kids per 6th grade classroom and 15 in each 4th grade
Sleepy Hollow: 15 per third grade class and 17 per 5th grade class
confirmed on Dashbaord:
http://www.fcps.edu/fts/dashboard/enrollment/esenroll13-14.html
Dashboard does NOT accurately report class sizes as there are kids that are counted seperately in there and are not included in the class size averages. So looking at Dashboard does not get you the info that we are discussing here. If you are reporting that Sleepy Hollow has 15 kids in several classrooms, and Mount Eagle has 15 kids from personal experience, that's one thing, but to grab the info from Dashboard and state that this is how it is is NOT correct. I say this because according to our chart on Dashboard we are at 19 average in the 5th grade, and we have no fifth grade classrooms with 19 or fewer kids. Like someone already said, our special education students are not included in that number, so the average is way too low.
I'm a substitute teacher and have been at both of those schools. The class sizes are accurate.
Have you been there this year? What were your experiences like?
Yes. Both schools have nice kids. Mount Eagle has more of a mix of kids -black, white, Hispanic, and Asian. Sleepy Hollow is mostly white and Hispanic. I think the kids are better behaved at Sleepy Hollow but the Mount Eagle kids are a good group of kids. Mount Eagle seems like a stricter/more rigid school than Sleepy Hollow.