Anonymous
01/06/2014 11:03
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
For all of you who are just getting by with your HHI of $400k or higher, there's an incredibly simple answer:
Move to a place in the Metro area where the housing is cheaper.
What? You're gasping that you could never do such a thing? What about the children? What about the schools? What about the commute? What about your nanny that wouldn't possibly come to THAT neighborhood?
Then you're not really doing everything you can to live within your means.
Guess what--sometimes even with a big HHI, there are tradeoffs. Maybe that $1.5M house really isn't worth it.
But so many people create the "baseline" acceptability for their lives that they end up completely hemming themselves in, trying little changes around the edges that might save $500 a year, when the biggest answer is staring them right in the new-construction granite-and-stainless face.
Get cheaper housing. It exists.
If you can't bear to do that, then understand that the root of your cash flow problem is that you don't want to make the sacrifices necessary. You can whine and moan about how housing in DC is so expensive, blah blah blah, but what you really mean is that housing in DC that is acceptable to your tastes is so expensive.
Go back to the PP living the 40-year-old rambler, who miraculously has a lot more financial security than the other folks who are struggling on a high HHI.
Your choices are putting you in your situation, not the boo-hoo high COL of DC. Because if you leave DC for somewhere cheaper, you ain't taking that $500K HHI with you, and may end up in the same boat.
Move to a place in the Metro area where the housing is cheaper.
What? You're gasping that you could never do such a thing? What about the children? What about the schools? What about the commute? What about your nanny that wouldn't possibly come to THAT neighborhood?
Then you're not really doing everything you can to live within your means.
Guess what--sometimes even with a big HHI, there are tradeoffs. Maybe that $1.5M house really isn't worth it.
But so many people create the "baseline" acceptability for their lives that they end up completely hemming themselves in, trying little changes around the edges that might save $500 a year, when the biggest answer is staring them right in the new-construction granite-and-stainless face.
Get cheaper housing. It exists.
If you can't bear to do that, then understand that the root of your cash flow problem is that you don't want to make the sacrifices necessary. You can whine and moan about how housing in DC is so expensive, blah blah blah, but what you really mean is that housing in DC that is acceptable to your tastes is so expensive.
Go back to the PP living the 40-year-old rambler, who miraculously has a lot more financial security than the other folks who are struggling on a high HHI.
Your choices are putting you in your situation, not the boo-hoo high COL of DC. Because if you leave DC for somewhere cheaper, you ain't taking that $500K HHI with you, and may end up in the same boat.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 11:02
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:We go on 0 vacations a year and eat out 0 times a week. My husband makes around 125 and I SAH with our 2 kids.
sounds like the life LOL
Anonymous
01/06/2014 11:01
Subject: Re:How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
PP: You pay $700/month in Homeowners insurance??!? Am I doing something wrong? Mine is like $700 a year.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 11:00
Subject: Re:How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:We are a frugal people. All four of our parents grew up during the depression and came of age during the rationing of WWII. With the exception of a house and occasionally a car, we buy when we have the money (pay as you go).
We wash our shirts (only use dry cleaners a few times a year). We don't do Starbucks. We don't buy lunch more than once a week. We eat real food prepared at home. We keep our thermostat at 68' in the winter and 74' in the summer. We did the non sexy stuff to our house first (insulated, roof, efficient heating and Air conditioning). We drive cars until they die, but take care of them so they don't die prematurely. We fix things, reuse things then recycle them. We buy high quality clothes that last and not tons of them ( we have a regular closet- no walk in). We mow our own lawn. We do get an every other week housecleaner. We plan our errands. We plan our purchases. We tithe. We don't go to concerts or plays (except local free or nearly free ones). We use the library weekly. We clean our own gutters. We go to family for summer vacations most years (have a bigger vacation every 2-4 years- use VBRO type of places). We use DH's frequent flyer miles when we fly (which is not often). We host potlucks. DH has a smart phone from work, but the DCs and I have a pay as you go phones that cost $100/year each. We have purchased couches, beds and mattresses, but most of our other furniture is "inherited" (I call it 'early attic'). We have done renovations to our house once we have saved up the money. We wash and reuse our zip lock bags. We use cloths napkins and dish towels instead of paper in the kitchen. We use rags for cleaning instead of paper towels. From the get go, we set our expenses off of one salary and saved as much as we could.
Little things add up. It isn't just the Starbucks habit- it is 12-24 Starbuck type habits.
Wow! Way to live large, dude.
Way to work until you drop dead, dude. But you will have wonderful memories of driving a leased beemer and popping your collar at your bottle service table to get you through those difficult years of working as a geriatric.
NP here, I would rather work until I was older but live a good life, rather than penny pinch to retire early.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 11:00
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
I am caling bull shit on this one, you must have bought a house before the bubble or put a lot down. Most people can't do 20% down on their first house but for your example I did below.
Your Pay Check Results
Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556
Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-700 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$321 a month left
As you can see with the above conservative calculations, living on 200K HHI isn't really affluent.
In fact the above doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money.
The good news is that you are fairly young and eventually the childcare cost will go away. It makes a HUGE difference. Keep recreation expense down. You are doing quite well actually. Many people are single in their 30s with no kids. You have a head start here.
Childcare costs do not go away.
You still need to pay someone to watch the children while you are work and then there are many sport or after school activities that cost money.
I thought we would save but we don't. You save once the kids are 35. LOL
Also suppose your kid needs braces or other expensive uncovered medical things, that would wipe you out and put you into debt with the meager left over amounts as posted above.
Ok, Eeyore
I agree, you are majorly screwed. Add to your list - never divorce because that will WIPE you out. And don't cop it without really generous life insurance policies.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:59
Subject: Re:How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:
We wash and reuse our zip lock bags.
Wow, I am a pretty frugal low key person, but that is too much for me. I don't think they are a huge expense, I don't use them that often, it sounds like it would be hard to get them dry.
I wash and reuse plastic baggies too.
Do you use them very often? Because I would say I go through a box every 6-7 months or so not washing and reusing them.
6 or 7 months? lol
Thats no often at all.
They are a few bucks, under 5 anyway. Is it really worth the effort. That is crazy. Even if it was a box WEEKLY, I wouldnt do that.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:58
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
You make $200,000 HHI. Most other people do not, so they cannot pay 700K for a house, have a $3800/month nanny, etc.
It depends where you live, on the census map certain zip codes have median income of 200K. Those same zip codes are the good schools with acceptable commutes. In those zip codes 700k is barely above a teardown and may be in fact a small fixer upper house. With two parents working daycare is also very expensive unless you do something that is substandard. Daycare costs about 1500-1800 a child.
WHATEVER - MOST PPL DO NOT MAKE 200K HHI. And the question of the thread was how do ppl live on LESS THAN 200K HHI.
Well if you look at the census map there are many zip codes where the median income is 200K+ therefore that would mean if you live there most people make that or more if not a little less.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:58
Subject: Re:How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:We wash and reuse our zip lock bags.
Wow, I am a pretty frugal low key person, but that is too much for me. I don't think they are a huge expense, I don't use them that often, it sounds like it would be hard to get them dry.
Agree, thats where I draw the line.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:56
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
You make $200,000 HHI. Most other people do not, so they cannot pay 700K for a house, have a $3800/month nanny, etc.
It depends where you live, on the census map certain zip codes have median income of 200K. Those same zip codes are the good schools with acceptable commutes. In those zip codes 700k is barely above a teardown and may be in fact a small fixer upper house. With two parents working daycare is also very expensive unless you do something that is substandard. Daycare costs about 1500-1800 a child.
WHATEVER - MOST PPL DO NOT MAKE 200K HHI. And the question of the thread was how do ppl live on LESS THAN 200K HHI.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:55
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
You make $200,000 HHI. Most other people do not, so they cannot pay 700K for a house, have a $3800/month nanny, etc.
It depends where you live, on the census map certain zip codes have median income of 200K. Those same zip codes are the good schools with acceptable commutes. In those zip codes 700k is barely above a teardown and may be in fact a small fixer upper house. With two parents working daycare is also very expensive unless you do something that is substandard. Daycare costs about 1500-1800 a child.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:55
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Here's how we live on $150 HHI:
Beans & Rice. A lot. And meats from Spanish groceries.
I make my own laundry and dishwasher detergents.
Amazon Subscribe & Save, and Walmart.
No vacations, no savings, no shopping. We just cannot spend any money after the mortgage, nanny, and student loans. We are broke.
Beans & Rice. A lot. And meats from Spanish groceries.
I make my own laundry and dishwasher detergents.
Amazon Subscribe & Save, and Walmart.
No vacations, no savings, no shopping. We just cannot spend any money after the mortgage, nanny, and student loans. We are broke.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:52
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
I am caling bull shit on this one, you must have bought a house before the bubble or put a lot down. Most people can't do 20% down on their first house but for your example I did below.
Your Pay Check Results
Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556
Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-700 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$321 a month left
As you can see with the above conservative calculations, living on 200K HHI isn't really affluent.
In fact the above doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money.
sorry one mistake I should' ve taken the house insurance and divided by 12
Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556
Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-58 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$963 a month left
Again this isn't much if you consider the calculation doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money etc...
Bought in late 2009, purchase price was 660, I rounded up to 700. Our loan was for 417k at 4.75. We refi'd twice, reducing the loan amount and term each time, are now at 3.6 on a 20 year. PITI ~ 2,900/month. We put everything we had that wasn't in retirement accounts into the house, including a 20k loan from family that was secured against retirement assets and paid off within a year.
Car insurance is only 100/month (good drivers, paid off cars).
So using your example above it would leave 1,300/month, an extra 16k of after tax per year. When we can put the kids in daycare the open up another 20k/year. When they go to school even more.
Most people your age don't have $285K to put down on a house and have student loans that didn't allow them to or continue to do so. You are not the norm.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:51
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
You make $200,000 HHI. Most other people do not, so they cannot pay 700K for a house, have a $3800/month nanny, etc.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:48
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
I am caling bull shit on this one, you must have bought a house before the bubble or put a lot down. Most people can't do 20% down on their first house but for your example I did below.
Your Pay Check Results
Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556
Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-700 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$321 a month left
As you can see with the above conservative calculations, living on 200K HHI isn't really affluent.
In fact the above doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money.
sorry one mistake I should' ve taken the house insurance and divided by 12
Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556
Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-58 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$963 a month left
Again this isn't much if you consider the calculation doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money etc...
Bought in late 2009, purchase price was 660, I rounded up to 700. Our loan was for 417k at 4.75. We refi'd twice, reducing the loan amount and term each time, are now at 3.6 on a 20 year. PITI ~ 2,900/month. We put everything we had that wasn't in retirement accounts into the house, including a 20k loan from family that was secured against retirement assets and paid off within a year.
Car insurance is only 100/month (good drivers, paid off cars).
So using your example above it would leave 1,300/month, an extra 16k of after tax per year. When we can put the kids in daycare the open up another 20k/year. When they go to school even more.
Anonymous
01/06/2014 10:44
Subject: How does your family survive making under 200k hhi
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They either rent or bought 10+ years ago, or live in an area with bad schools.
Mom stays at home, or grandma watches the kids, or they use a really cheap in-home daycare.
They never eat out.
They never go on vacations.
We are 35. We bought in 2009 (700k) in a great school district (HS in top 5 in VA). We have a 3800/month nanny. Make almost exactly 200k now, made substantially less 3 years ago. We max our 401k, IRAs, and save for college. Now, we vacation inexpensively, we drive paid off cars, did not have student loans, and we mostly eat at home. We have a net worth of almost 800k. You can live very well on 200k in this area. You can't live like the kardashians, but few can. Seems like many have a twisted sense of what "average" and "middle class" are. Take a couple minutes and see where your money goes. Evaluate wants vs needs, decide what is important to you, but don't complain and poor mouth when you are in the top 3-5% of incomes. It's just rude.
I am caling bull shit on this one, you must have bought a house before the bubble or put a lot down. Most people can't do 20% down on their first house but for your example I did below.
Your Pay Check Results
Monthly Gross Pay (200k HHI) $16,666.67
Federal Withholding $2,410.42
Social Security $853.53
Medicare $199.62
Virginia $746.84
401k max for 2 people $2,900.00
Net Pay ~$9,556
Expenditures:
-3800 (nanny)
-3235 (mortgage on a 750K house w/ 20% down 2009 Annual Average 5.04%)
-700 (house insurance)
-500 (property taxes)
- 200 (car insurance)
- 300 (utilities)
- 500 (food)
-----------
$321 a month left
As you can see with the above conservative calculations, living on 200K HHI isn't really affluent.
In fact the above doesn't have the following: college tuition, savings, after school activities, car payments, recreation money.
The good news is that you are fairly young and eventually the childcare cost will go away. It makes a HUGE difference. Keep recreation expense down. You are doing quite well actually. Many people are single in their 30s with no kids. You have a head start here.
Childcare costs do not go away.
You still need to pay someone to watch the children while you are work and then there are many sport or after school activities that cost money.
I thought we would save but we don't. You save once the kids are 35. LOL
Also suppose your kid needs braces or other expensive uncovered medical things, that would wipe you out and put you into debt with the meager left over amounts as posted above.