Anonymous wrote:The biggest difference I have noticed is that upper middle class people are obsessed with providing what they perceive to be the best for their kids...from organic food to limiting screen time, to Suzuki lessons at age 4, to Montessori preschool, to private and/or the best public schools in high SES locations. They are concerned with their kids going to the best fit/most competitive college than can go to irregardless of cost. They also fret about saving in 529s and what corners they can cut so that they can make private high school an option. They consider international travel to be an important, culturally enriching experience that children should have. They fret over whether or not it is damaging to the psyche for their kid to grow up without a yard, or whether it is justifiable to live in a condo so they can ride the metro to preschool and walk to the farmer's market. They tend to be relentless helicopter parents.

Lower middle class tend to be more laid back about junk food, less concerned about THE BEST schools, and more about living someplace that fits the needs and budget and has the right fit for their families. They tend to not freak out about having the TV on all the time and about too much Dora time. They don't think to scour Greatschools.com to figure out all the options they have and whether nor not the greatschools rating is a 9 or a 10, and just move into a nice, middle class neighborhood and sent their kids to the most convenient neighborhood school. They encourage education, but going in state to get in state tuition, rather than freaking out about getting into ivies or if their kid isn't competitive enough to get into ivies "the best fit school." They frequently don't save in 529s, either because they paid for college and they expect their kids to as well with loans, or because they are just making enough to get by, and there isn't any left over to save for college. Sometimes it is taken as a point of pride that their kids have "skin in the game" and not everything "handed to them." The same is said for weddings and other life expenses that are not within their budget--not helping them financially is a mark of developing self-sufficiency.

Anonymous wrote:
1) The distinction between LMC and UMC families ties seems a little self-serving. I've seen plenty of disfunctional LMC families, the reason they are LMC is because neither parent can hold down a job. I also think the divorce rate and the rate of unwed moms is higher in LMC. Not judging, just saying.
2) LMC college grads aren't necessarily smarter, because there's a lot of research showing IQ and verbal skills are correlated with family SES..

Anonymous wrote:The biggest difference I have noticed is that upper middle class people are obsessed with providing what they perceive to be the best for their kids...from organic food to limiting screen time, to Suzuki lessons at age 4, to Montessori preschool, to private and/or the best public schools in high SES locations. They are concerned with their kids going to the best fit/most competitive college than can go to irregardless of cost. They also fret about saving in 529s and what corners they can cut so that they can make private high school an option. They consider international travel to be an important, culturally enriching experience that children should have. They fret over whether or not it is damaging to the psyche for their kid to grow up without a yard, or whether it is justifiable to live in a condo so they can ride the metro to preschool and walk to the farmer's market. They tend to be relentless helicopter parents.

Lower middle class tend to be more laid back about junk food, less concerned about THE BEST schools, and more about living someplace that fits the needs and budget and has the right fit for their families. They tend to not freak out about having the TV on all the time and about too much Dora time. They don't think to scour Greatschools.com to figure out all the options they have and whether nor not the greatschools rating is a 9 or a 10, and just move into a nice, middle class neighborhood and sent their kids to the most convenient neighborhood school. They encourage education, but going in state to get in state tuition, rather than freaking out about getting into ivies or if their kid isn't competitive enough to get into ivies "the best fit school." They frequently don't save in 529s, either because they paid for college and they expect their kids to as well with loans, or because they are just making enough to get by, and there isn't any left over to save for college. Sometimes it is taken as a point of pride that their kids have "skin in the game" and not everything "handed to them." The same is said for weddings and other life expenses that are not within their budget--not helping them financially is a mark of developing self-sufficiency.

Anonymous wrote:People who grew up lower middle class and come into money somehow, are the ones who are buying up the McMansions. They are ugly, lack character, and are cheaply built. They are only worth the land they are built on. You can buy one in DC or on the Main Line in PA for several million dollars. Move a bit further out to rural PA or somewhere not as urban as DC and they sell for $200k. Open your eyes people.

Anonymous wrote:Let me start this thread by saying I'm a SAHM that's trying to engage my brain. I took an intense interest in sociology while I was in college and, unfortunately, did not pursue a double major. It doesn't change the fact that I am totally fascinated by the BEHAVIORAL differences between the lower middle class and the upper middle class. It would be lovely if people would talk about their personal life experiences and give specific examples of behavioral differences (and differences in values, morals, child rearing, education, manners, etc.) among these two classes. This is NOT a financial debate. I don't care what bracket you are in or what your HHI is. I am simply talking about how you grew up and how you are raising your children and the differences you notice between these two socioeconomic classes.

I'll give a few of my own examples to start off with:

I've noticed that when people in the lower middle class save enough money to renovate their house, purchase a nice car, go on a vacation, etc. they tend to state the price of everything. My friends from the upper middle class simply don't discuss money matters because it is considered impolite and crass.

In my personal experience, people from the lower middle class tend to address adults by their first names (and the adults encourage this). In UMC families, adults are addressed by "Mr. and Mrs. so and so" This could also be a cultural phenomenon, however, not just socioeconomic.

Anonymous wrote:If you read the Fussell book, you realize it's more about what's on your coffee table, what's on your bookshelves, where you spend your money, etc. It's not about how much money you make.

My DH told me that he used to date a girl that he thought was hot, but when he went to her place, noticed that there were no books on the bookshelves. He said he realized then that it would never work out in the long run.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mindset of the lower middle class and working class are pretty similar. It is a very different mindset from those in the upper middle class.

-UMC grow up expecting to be college educated. It's not some distant dream and they don't need to be pushed to do it. It's a basic expectation.

-UMC choose where to buy a house based on real estate values, school districts, safety, etc. whereas LMC tend to want to stay close to their family even if it means sacrificing school district or safety.

-UMC places value on traveling, both domestic and international. Road trips are commonplace when the children are young (when feasible) to allow the kids to see more things. An ideal vacation for a LMC family is to take the kids to Disney (via plane) or to vacation in Vegas.

-LMC take pride in brand names and logos. UMC have understated, elegant things that may be designer or name brand, but you wouldn't know it because their things don't have logos plastered all over them (I'm talking to you women who carry Coach purses with the infamous "C" logo all over the bag... You shop at TJ Maxx, we get it)

Oh, please. Stop with the Bashing of the Working Class. Here are my observations:

1) LMC places more emphasis on family relations. Frequent get-togethers with family and extended family over the holidays. Family will rally around you when you are in trouble, no questions asked, in sickness and in health. It's just done that way. UMC, OTOH, tend to be more dysfunctional in familial ties, and it is not uncommon that money is more valued that family relations. As a matter of fact, money is often times the basis for cut ties. The richer you are, the more dysfunction, rising to filing lawsuits against your parents, etc.

2) LMC college graduates, on average, are smarter and more talented than the typical UMC college graduate. As a hiring matter, coming from the same alma mater, it is better to hire the LMC graduate. You can bet they are just more qualified, since it took more to get to the same place.

3) Both groups have members that like road trips, Disney, and gambling, so I disagree with you here.

4) UMC' logos are invitations to the right parties, whether your help is live-in, and how many, how many vacation homes you have, etc. LMC' logos is a goddamn purse with a bunch of C's on it. Which one is the the more foolhardy? Hard to say. Everyone is susceptible to logos, PP. Have you ever sat in on a bunch of UMC's chatting over coffee? If they're not bitching about some women, they are bragging about their stupid European vacations. Intolerable. I'm sure you have your "logos" as well.

5) But the bottom line: LMC's wedding receptions are JUST MORE FUN. I have never been to a LMC's wedding where they did not have an open bar, and a generous top shelf. Good music. Some uncle or barely legal niece making a drunken fool of themselves and having a ball. I have been to some UMC's weddings where I saw they chintzed out on details for the guests. Cheap asses. 'Course, the best are the private parties of the very rich, but then, that's not what we're talking about here.

I am the Cheese Lady, and I tell it like it is.

I like you, Cheese Lady, but I don't think you get UMC.
1) The distinction between LMC and UMC families ties seems a little self-serving. I've seen plenty of disfunctional LMC families, the reason they are LMC is because neither parent can hold down a job. I also think the divorce rate and the rate of unwed moms is higher in LMC. Not judging, just saying.
2) LMC college grads aren't necessarily smarter, because there's a lot of research showing IQ and verbal skills are correlated with family SES.
3) UMC looks down on Disney. Vegas is OK for bachelor parties, but an UMC wouldn't want to plan a normal vacation around it.
4) UMCs to compete on vacation, but it's an exagerration to say they brag about "vacation homes" in the plural. It takes upper class to have "vacation homes" in the plural. And your snipe about cattiness crosses class boundaries, just look at yourself sniping at UMC women....
5) I agree with you! LMC wedding receptions are more fun! Although many LMC weddings feature over-dried fried chicken catered by the mother-of-the-bride's BFF (I've choked down some of that stuff) and no alcohol.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mindset of the lower middle class and working class are pretty similar. It is a very different mindset from those in the upper middle class.

-UMC grow up expecting to be college educated. It's not some distant dream and they don't need to be pushed to do it. It's a basic expectation.

-UMC choose where to buy a house based on real estate values, school districts, safety, etc. whereas LMC tend to want to stay close to their family even if it means sacrificing school district or safety.

-UMC places value on traveling, both domestic and international. Road trips are commonplace when the children are young (when feasible) to allow the kids to see more things. An ideal vacation for a LMC family is to take the kids to Disney (via plane) or to vacation in Vegas.

-LMC take pride in brand names and logos. UMC have understated, elegant things that may be designer or name brand, but you wouldn't know it because their things don't have logos plastered all over them (I'm talking to you women who carry Coach purses with the infamous "C" logo all over the bag... You shop at TJ Maxx, we get it)

Oh, please. Stop with the Bashing of the Working Class. Here are my observations:

1) LMC places more emphasis on family relations. Frequent get-togethers with family and extended family over the holidays. Family will rally around you when you are in trouble, no questions asked, in sickness and in health. It's just done that way. UMC, OTOH, tend to be more dysfunctional in familial ties, and it is not uncommon that money is more valued that family relations. As a matter of fact, money is often times the basis for cut ties. The richer you are, the more dysfunction, rising to filing lawsuits against your parents, etc.

2) LMC college graduates, on average, are smarter and more talented than the typical UMC college graduate. As a hiring matter, coming from the same alma mater, it is better to hire the LMC graduate. You can bet they are just more qualified, since it took more to get to the same place.

3) Both groups have members that like road trips, Disney, and gambling, so I disagree with you here.

4) UMC' logos are invitations to the right parties, whether your help is live-in, and how many, how many vacation homes you have, etc. LMC' logos is a goddamn purse with a bunch of C's on it. Which one is the the more foolhardy? Hard to say. Everyone is susceptible to logos, PP. Have you ever sat in on a bunch of UMC's chatting over coffee? If they're not bitching about some women, they are bragging about their stupid European vacations. Intolerable. I'm sure you have your "logos" as well.

5) But the bottom line: LMC's wedding receptions are JUST MORE FUN. I have never been to a LMC's wedding where they did not have an open bar, and a generous top shelf. Good music. Some uncle or barely legal niece making a drunken fool of themselves and having a ball. I have been to some UMC's weddings where I saw they chintzed out on details for the guests. Cheap asses. 'Course, the best are the private parties of the very rich, but then, that's not what we're talking about here.

I am the Cheese Lady, and I tell it like it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mindset of the lower middle class and working class are pretty similar. It is a very different mindset from those in the upper middle class.

-UMC grow up expecting to be college educated. It's not some distant dream and they don't need to be pushed to do it. It's a basic expectation.

-UMC choose where to buy a house based on real estate values, school districts, safety, etc. whereas LMC tend to want to stay close to their family even if it means sacrificing school district or safety.

-UMC places value on traveling, both domestic and international. Road trips are commonplace when the children are young (when feasible) to allow the kids to see more things. An ideal vacation for a LMC family is to take the kids to Disney (via plane) or to vacation in Vegas.

-LMC take pride in brand names and logos. UMC have understated, elegant things that may be designer or name brand, but you wouldn't know it because their things don't have logos plastered all over them (I'm talking to you women who carry Coach purses with the infamous "C" logo all over the bag... You shop at TJ Maxx, we get it)

Oh, please. Stop with the Bashing of the Working Class. Here are my observations:

1) LMC places more emphasis on family relations. Frequent get-togethers with family and extended family over the holidays. Family will rally around you when you are in trouble, no questions asked, in sickness and in health. It's just done that way. UMC, OTOH, tend to be more dysfunctional in familial ties, and it is not uncommon that money is more valued that family relations. As a matter of fact, money is often times the basis for cut ties. The richer you are, the more dysfunction, rising to filing lawsuits against your parents, etc.

2) LMC college graduates, on average, are smarter and more talented than the typical UMC college graduate. As a hiring matter, coming from the same alma mater, it is better to hire the LMC graduate. You can bet they are just more qualified, since it took more to get to the same place.

3) Both groups have members that like road trips, Disney, and gambling, so I disagree with you here.

4) UMC' logos are invitations to the right parties, whether your help is live-in, and how many, how many vacation homes you have, etc. LMC' logos is a goddamn purse with a bunch of C's on it. Which one is the the more foolhardy? Hard to say. Everyone is susceptible to logos, PP. Have you ever sat in on a bunch of UMC's chatting over coffee? If they're not bitching about some women, they are bragging about their stupid European vacations. Intolerable. I'm sure you have your "logos" as well.

5) But the bottom line: LMC's wedding receptions are JUST MORE FUN. I have never been to a LMC's wedding where they did not have an open bar, and a generous top shelf. Good music. Some uncle or barely legal niece making a drunken fool of themselves and having a ball. I have been to some UMC's weddings where I saw they chintzed out on details for the guests. Cheap asses. 'Course, the best are the private parties of the very rich, but then, that's not what we're talking about here.

I am the Cheese Lady, and I tell it like it is.

Clap, clap, clap

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The mindset of the lower middle class and working class are pretty similar. It is a very different mindset from those in the upper middle class.

-UMC grow up expecting to be college educated. It's not some distant dream and they don't need to be pushed to do it. It's a basic expectation.

-UMC choose where to buy a house based on real estate values, school districts, safety, etc. whereas LMC tend to want to stay close to their family even if it means sacrificing school district or safety.

-UMC places value on traveling, both domestic and international. Road trips are commonplace when the children are young (when feasible) to allow the kids to see more things. An ideal vacation for a LMC family is to take the kids to Disney (via plane) or to vacation in Vegas.

-LMC take pride in brand names and logos. UMC have understated, elegant things that may be designer or name brand, but you wouldn't know it because their things don't have logos plastered all over them (I'm talking to you women who carry Coach purses with the infamous "C" logo all over the bag... You shop at TJ Maxx, we get it)

Oh, please. Stop with the Bashing of the Working Class. Here are my observations:

1) LMC places more emphasis on family relations. Frequent get-togethers with family and extended family over the holidays. Family will rally around you when you are in trouble, no questions asked, in sickness and in health. It's just done that way. UMC, OTOH, tend to be more dysfunctional in familial ties, and it is not uncommon that money is more valued that family relations. As a matter of fact, money is often times the basis for cut ties. The richer you are, the more dysfunction, rising to filing lawsuits against your parents, etc.

2) LMC college graduates, on average, are smarter and more talented than the typical UMC college graduate. As a hiring matter, coming from the same alma mater, it is better to hire the LMC graduate. You can bet they are just more qualified, since it took more to get to the same place.

3) Both groups have members that like road trips, Disney, and gambling, so I disagree with you here.

4) UMC' logos are invitations to the right parties, whether your help is live-in, and how many, how many vacation homes you have, etc. LMC' logos is a goddamn purse with a bunch of C's on it. Which one is the the more foolhardy? Hard to say. Everyone is susceptible to logos, PP. Have you ever sat in on a bunch of UMC's chatting over coffee? If they're not bitching about some women, they are bragging about their stupid European vacations. Intolerable. I'm sure you have your "logos" as well.

5) But the bottom line: LMC's wedding receptions are JUST MORE FUN. I have never been to a LMC's wedding where they did not have an open bar, and a generous top shelf. Good music. Some uncle or barely legal niece making a drunken fool of themselves and having a ball. I have been to some UMC's weddings where I saw they chintzed out on details for the guests. Cheap asses. 'Course, the best are the private parties of the very rich, but then, that's not what we're talking about here.

I am the Cheese Lady, and I tell it like it is.

Anonymous wrote:The mindset of the lower middle class and working class are pretty similar. It is a very different mindset from those in the upper middle class.

-UMC grow up expecting to be college educated. It's not some distant dream and they don't need to be pushed to do it. It's a basic expectation.

-UMC choose where to buy a house based on real estate values, school districts, safety, etc. whereas LMC tend to want to stay close to their family even if it means sacrificing school district or safety.

-UMC places value on traveling, both domestic and international. Road trips are commonplace when the children are young (when feasible) to allow the kids to see more things. An ideal vacation for a LMC family is to take the kids to Disney (via plane) or to vacation in Vegas.

-LMC take pride in brand names and logos. UMC have understated, elegant things that may be designer or name brand, but you wouldn't know it because their things don't have logos plastered all over them (I'm talking to you women who carry Coach purses with the infamous "C" logo all over the bag... You shop at TJ Maxx, we get it)

Anonymous wrote:The mindset of the lower middle class and working class are pretty similar. It is a very different mindset from those in the upper middle class.

-UMC grow up expecting to be college educated. It's not some distant dream and they don't need to be pushed to do it. It's a basic expectation.

-UMC choose where to buy a house based on real estate values, school districts, safety, etc. whereas LMC tend to want to stay close to their family even if it means sacrificing school district or safety.

-UMC places value on traveling, both domestic and international. Road trips are commonplace when the children are young (when feasible) to allow the kids to see more things. An ideal vacation for a LMC family is to take the kids to Disney (via plane) or to vacation in Vegas.

-LMC take pride in brand names and logos. UMC have understated, elegant things that may be designer or name brand, but you wouldn't know it because their things don't have logos plastered all over them (I'm talking to you women who carry Coach purses with the infamous "C" logo all over the bag... You shop at TJ Maxx, we get it)