Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have a question?

Do you see a difference in college admissions from the private schools compared to any decent public in MD/VA?

I am trying to convince my DH to go for private school. DH actually attended a very average high school but the honors students (~25) all got into ivy leagues or similar. He was looking at the admissions from some of the privates around here and the number of acceptances to top colleges was worse than his very average high school.

Is your DH 22? If not, he may discover that college admissions is a bit different than when he was in high school.

I'm not aware of all the details of his college experience. Perhaps some of the years they got grant aid, because the first year he was in college they had 2 kids in school at the same time in private colleges. But I know he dealt with financial aid, and they figured out a plan where he graduated with a small amount of debt, and they had modest incomes and he later told me a few of the details of how this worked out for them. It wasn't without considerable sacrifice, but his family valued education, and the ability for both of them to go to the best colleges they could get into. Also our SLAC only gave aid according to demonstrated financial need, and no merit aid.

Marie Antoinette! Is that you telling the kids who can't afford Brown to take out massive loans, or their parents should mortgage their retirements with PLUS loans, or maybe the kid should just take the easy route and get full FA at Harvard?

The $15,000 your friend took out in loans ten years comes out to $4,500 per year, barely a drop in today's $60,000 per year tuition.

Yeesh. You people.

First of all, he graduated in 2007, so it's not like this was ages ago. And second of all all, tuition is not 60K at Harvard and other privates, it's closer to 40K (I am getting this from the Harvard website). It's tuition plus room and board where you are getting the 60K number. Depending on where you go to school (obviously not somewhere like Columbia), you can save some from living off campus--I know many people who did. Third of all, I'm saying he took out about 5,000 a year, and patching this together with savings and paying out of their salary, they made it work. Maybe the choices you are making won't make it work, I dunno. But it's not an all or nothing game.

I should have said $3,500/year in loans. Even less.

Anonymous wrote:Marie Antoinette! Is that you telling the kids who can't afford Brown to take out massive loans, or their parents should mortgage their retirements with PLUS loans, or maybe the kid should just take the easy route and get full FA at Harvard?

The $15,000 your friend took out in loans ten years comes out to $4,500 per year, barely a drop in today's $60,000 per year tuition.

Yeesh. You people.

PS. Meant to add that this discussion is bizarre because it assumes that Ivies are the only place a kid can get a great education. Plenty of families understand that you can get a fabulous education at schools that aren't Ivies, schools that will offer merit aid. Kids who won't qualify for FA don't have to mortgage their futures, with tons of loans, at these non-Ivy schools. I'm guessing lots of Whitman families understand that Ivy status isn't worth $$$$ in student and parent loans.

Marie Antoinette! Is that you telling the kids who can't afford Brown to take out massive loans, or their parents should mortgage their retirements with PLUS loans, or maybe the kid should just take the easy route and get full FA at Harvard?

The $15,000 your friend took out in loans ten years comes out to $4,500 per year, barely a drop in today's $60,000 per year tuition.

Yeesh. You people.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you went to an Ivy OP. No one I know calls them "Ivy Schools" as you did. They're Ivy universities.

I went to Princeton and would be much more likely to say "school" than "University." As in "DD is away at school," and, yes "Ivy school."

+1. Penn alum here.

Wow. Whitman parent here. You people have way too much time on your hands and obviously don't know much about the school. Listen, be comfortable with the school choices you've made but don't tear down the school my kid attends in the process.

http://www.justupthepike.com/2013/06/de-facto-segregation-threatens.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you went to an Ivy OP. No one I know calls them "Ivy Schools" as you did. They're Ivy universities.

I went to Princeton and would be much more likely to say "school" than "University." As in "DD is away at school," and, yes "Ivy school."

I went to Yale. I call them Ivy League schools. Also, when I'm feeling particularly snooty, I say I went to Yale College, not Yale University.

Sorry, but it sounds like you're saying that MoCo public school families, all those government workers' kids, have the exact same budget for Ivies as private school families, once you take all that super-generous grant aid into account. That can't be what you meant. There's still no way that $200k HHI families are going to find it easy to pay $60k for the first kid (because $200k and one kid won't get FA) and can expect to finance the second kid through 100% grant aid because DC#2 will definitely get into Harvard. There is a whole middle class that attends public schools and is only modestly present in private schools, and your casual references to FA and grant aid if your kid gets into Harvard show how oblivious you are about the very real financial decisions that these very real people face when considering applying to an Ivy. That's the point.

First of all 200K is by no means middle class. Even for the DC area, it is well in the top 10% of earners. I am not oblivious of the "very real financial decisions" that "very real people face." I just think that someone with 200K most certainly has more opportunities and support in life than someone with 50K, even if they don't get a free ride to Harvard. Plus parents are in positions to take on loans, get lower interest rates, and generally navigate the system, and hopefully have at least a bit saved. While crushing debt is bad, if necessary, I don't see why taking on some debt is absolutely verboten. For example, I attended a SLAC with a high sticker price. One of my good friends (who is currently in his late 20s) father was a professor who didn't make a giant salary. He saved some for college, a small amount of institutional grants, and yes, my friend took out loans. Since his father was able to guide him through the process (and had a reasonable amount saved from his modest salary) he graduated with 15K in loans. His parents later paid 5K of his loans as a graduation present, and helped him consolidate his loans to a very low interest rate, so the minimum payment (10K of total loans) was not burdensome has he started his career out of college, which was very low paying. I think this is the advantage of being in a professional family--there is someone to guide you through the byzantine mess of loans and financial aid which is untenable for an adult, not to mention an 18 year old with limited experience dealing with complex financial issues.

Further, no middle class parent should tell their child not to apply to an Ivy because of the sticker price. Everyone who makes under the national median income (about $60k) will get all grants, no loans and no family contribution. The average net cost at Harvard is $18K, not the $51k sticker price. The Ivies have big endowments and they can afford to spend a lot more on financial aid than other schools. While a family making $200K will not get much aid, they have had 18 years to build up some savings and they have the resources to consider taking some parental debt.

Exactly! This was what I was getting at.

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you went to an Ivy OP. No one I know calls them "Ivy Schools" as you did. They're Ivy universities.

I went to Princeton and would be much more likely to say "school" than "University." As in "DD is away at school," and, yes "Ivy school."

Some private schools offer college preparatory environments that are completely different from anything you’d find at any public school. Spacious campuses with acres of open space much like you’d find at a small liberal arts colleges. Episcopal, SSSA, Bullis, Georgetown Prep, Madera and Landon are probably the best examples. Other schools [STA, NCS, Holton, Sidwell, Maret, Visitation, Stone Ridge] have more compact campuses that are still beyond what you’d find at a public school. A few schools (usually newer schools) have public school type facilities (GDS, Gonzaga, The Heights are examples).

Most private schools offer smaller class size than corresponding public schools. The humanities programs tend to be stronger at private schools, but the top math programs are at public schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, 12:03/12:41, our exchange will be a lot more productive if you'd quit disrespecting and insulting me. I know you disagree with me. It does not improve your credibility when you repeatedly say I have "no clue" or "know nothing" or am "naive." Instead of wasting words with snarky comments, focus on proving your points.

I'm holding back. I was going to say something like, "yes, yes, dearie, I'm sure if you lined the kids at STA and Whitman up by GPA, and then compared family tax returns one-for-one, you'd find an exact correspondence in family financial situations." And then I was going to suggest you shouldn't worry your pretty little head about this stuff, and instead go drop $250 on your highlights at the salon.

We've been in the position of choosing between a Bethesda house and Whitman/BCC vs. Eastern MoCo and private. You clearly haven't. If we had gone for the Bethesda house, we wouldn't be able to pay for DCs Ivy now. Absolute truth.

My last question: are you a school AD? Because I can't believe that anybody without a really serious investment in this question would be making the arguments you're making.

It's unfortunate you cannot participate in a meaningful discussion. Since you are offering only insults, and precious few substantive contributions, I will exit as well.

FWIW, I'm not employed by any school. My family's HHI is <350k, and we live in Eastern MoCo. You really ought to check your assumptions, and your attitude.

Wow. Way to cut and paste the less friendly points and ignore every single substantive challenge to your contention that Whitman families are exactly the same, financially, as private school families. By now we expect this sort of thing from you, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By the way, 12:03/12:41, our exchange will be a lot more productive if you'd quit disrespecting and insulting me. I know you disagree with me. It does not improve your credibility when you repeatedly say I have "no clue" or "know nothing" or am "naive." Instead of wasting words with snarky comments, focus on proving your points.

I'm holding back. I was going to say something like, "yes, yes, dearie, I'm sure if you lined the kids at STA and Whitman up by GPA, and then compared family tax returns one-for-one, you'd find an exact correspondence in family financial situations." And then I was going to suggest you shouldn't worry your pretty little head about this stuff, and instead go drop $250 on your highlights at the salon.

We've been in the position of choosing between a Bethesda house and Whitman/BCC vs. Eastern MoCo and private. You clearly haven't. If we had gone for the Bethesda house, we wouldn't be able to pay for DCs Ivy now. Absolute truth.

My last question: are you a school AD? Because I can't believe that anybody without a really serious investment in this question would be making the arguments you're making.

It's unfortunate you cannot participate in a meaningful discussion. Since you are offering only insults, and precious few substantive contributions, I will exit as well.

FWIW, I'm not employed by any school. My family's HHI is <350k, and we live in Eastern MoCo. You really ought to check your assumptions, and your attitude.

Nice under-handed insult