Anonymous wrote:The presence of low ESOL is what makes ivy admissions from Bethesda and Potomac so much higher than Silver Spring.....oh wait, the opposite is actually true. Hmmm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -

The truth of the matter is that language is not the only barrier in a high ESOL scenario. These are not kids from homes where parents are reading to them at night although in Spanish.

The kids doing well in MCPS are those with highly educated parents and with families that give importance to enrichment and learning outside of school. This is not what is true of the majority of the ESOL kids.

So, yes, MCPS and the teachers will make a very strong attempt to get them up to speed...but your kid will suffer in the end because standards will be dramatically lowered.

I for one applaud that MCPS will concentrate in teaching curriculum 2.0 to ESOL. That is the correct thing to do.

Being in a school that is heavily ESOL is not detrimental because of the language barrier ...it is detrimental because of the disparity in socio-economic status and educational level of parents.

Do you have evidence to back this up or are you just spouting well worn dogma?

Are you kidding? There is tons of educational research to back up the fact that upper middle class kids succed at a far higher rate due to parental involvement. It's not just MCPS, it's a generally know researched and document fact. Feel free to google for the info.

Nope, I am not kidding. Because your statement was a generalization that you tried to make specific to MCPS. I am not talking about the tons of educational research. But you said that, in MCPS, the kids who are dong well have HIGHLY educated parents AND who stress enrichment, etc. You made it a two pronged issue. My point is that is a generalization that I asked if you had evidence of. Are those the ONLY kids who do well - because that is how you phrased it. For example, what if there are two HS grad parents who take their kids to Kumon everyday. How do those kids do? Conversely, what about two BigLaw partners who are never home but have their uneducated nanny with the kid most of the time? My point is that the "research" does not take into account the individual school, teacher or student. And you do not KNOW the personal situations of every student in MCPS who is doing well.

Frankly, one of my DS had a K class that was significantly ESOL. One day he came home and started saying things in Spanish that he had picked up from classmates. We were delighted and encouraged it. He is in 9th grade now and has already satisfied his MCPS language requirement.

For the most part, we live in a SES diverse county and MCPS reflects that. If folks don't like that level of diversity, private school is an option. My advice to OP is to monitor her specific situation to see how it plays out and then decide accordingly. But to make decisions on generalities and assumptions is not the best strategy.

Well, no, it's not a generalization. It's born out by fact. Those kids are doing the best.

They are not the only kids who are doing well. There are others but the numbers of those kids is far less.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -

The truth of the matter is that language is not the only barrier in a high ESOL scenario. These are not kids from homes where parents are reading to them at night although in Spanish.

The kids doing well in MCPS are those with highly educated parents and with families that give importance to enrichment and learning outside of school. This is not what is true of the majority of the ESOL kids.

So, yes, MCPS and the teachers will make a very strong attempt to get them up to speed...but your kid will suffer in the end because standards will be dramatically lowered.

I for one applaud that MCPS will concentrate in teaching curriculum 2.0 to ESOL. That is the correct thing to do.

Being in a school that is heavily ESOL is not detrimental because of the language barrier ...it is detrimental because of the disparity in socio-economic status and educational level of parents.

Do you have evidence to back this up or are you just spouting well worn dogma?

Are you kidding? There is tons of educational research to back up the fact that upper middle class kids succed at a far higher rate due to parental involvement. It's not just MCPS, it's a generally know researched and document fact. Feel free to google for the info.

Nope, I am not kidding. Because your statement was a generalization that you tried to make specific to MCPS. I am not talking about the tons of educational research. But you said that, in MCPS, the kids who are dong well have HIGHLY educated parents AND who stress enrichment, etc. You made it a two pronged issue. My point is that is a generalization that I asked if you had evidence of. Are those the ONLY kids who do well - because that is how you phrased it. For example, what if there are two HS grad parents who take their kids to Kumon everyday. How do those kids do? Conversely, what about two BigLaw partners who are never home but have their uneducated nanny with the kid most of the time? My point is that the "research" does not take into account the individual school, teacher or student. And you do not KNOW the personal situations of every student in MCPS who is doing well.

Frankly, one of my DS had a K class that was significantly ESOL. One day he came home and started saying things in Spanish that he had picked up from classmates. We were delighted and encouraged it. He is in 9th grade now and has already satisfied his MCPS language requirement.

For the most part, we live in a SES diverse county and MCPS reflects that. If folks don't like that level of diversity, private school is an option. My advice to OP is to monitor her specific situation to see how it plays out and then decide accordingly. But to make decisions on generalities and assumptions is not the best strategy.

Anonymous wrote:It is certainly a reason to be concerned. Personally I think kids should not be fully integrated for the first year or two when they are just learning English. I think it makes it easier for kids who need ESOL and kids who don't.
My son goes to a diverse school that we love and I am fully on board with having everyone together in a year or two. I just think that walking into a class and not knowing the language is scary for kids and they must take longer to learn. This puts added stress on the teacher and surely slows down the rest of the class (or just leave the child who needs ESOL behind)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice to OP is to monitor her specific situation to see how it plays out and then decide accordingly. But to make decisions on generalities and assumptions is not the best strategy.

Not the OP, but I think that this is fabulous advice.

My advice to the OP would be to close her browser window and never open this thread again. Hopefully she has gotten all the sane advice she needed on the first page.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My advice to OP is to monitor her specific situation to see how it plays out and then decide accordingly. But to make decisions on generalities and assumptions is not the best strategy.

Not the OP, but I think that this is fabulous advice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -

The truth of the matter is that language is not the only barrier in a high ESOL scenario. These are not kids from homes where parents are reading to them at night although in Spanish.

The kids doing well in MCPS are those with highly educated parents and with families that give importance to enrichment and learning outside of school. This is not what is true of the majority of the ESOL kids.

So, yes, MCPS and the teachers will make a very strong attempt to get them up to speed...but your kid will suffer in the end because standards will be dramatically lowered.

I for one applaud that MCPS will concentrate in teaching curriculum 2.0 to ESOL. That is the correct thing to do.

Being in a school that is heavily ESOL is not detrimental because of the language barrier ...it is detrimental because of the disparity in socio-economic status and educational level of parents.

Do you have evidence to back this up or are you just spouting well worn dogma?

Are you kidding? There is tons of educational research to back up the fact that upper middle class kids succed at a far higher rate due to parental involvement. It's not just MCPS, it's a generally know researched and document fact. Feel free to google for the info.

Nope, I am not kidding. Because your statement was a generalization that you tried to make specific to MCPS. I am not talking about the tons of educational research. But you said that, in MCPS, the kids who are dong well have HIGHLY educated parents AND who stress enrichment, etc. You made it a two pronged issue. My point is that is a generalization that I asked if you had evidence of. Are those the ONLY kids who do well - because that is how you phrased it. For example, what if there are two HS grad parents who take their kids to Kumon everyday. How do those kids do? Conversely, what about two BigLaw partners who are never home but have their uneducated nanny with the kid most of the time? My point is that the "research" does not take into account the individual school, teacher or student. And you do not KNOW the personal situations of every student in MCPS who is doing well.

Frankly, one of my DS had a K class that was significantly ESOL. One day he came home and started saying things in Spanish that he had picked up from classmates. We were delighted and encouraged it. He is in 9th grade now and has already satisfied his MCPS language requirement.

For the most part, we live in a SES diverse county and MCPS reflects that. If folks don't like that level of diversity, private school is an option. My advice to OP is to monitor her specific situation to see how it plays out and then decide accordingly. But to make decisions on generalities and assumptions is not the best strategy.

Anonymous wrote:My advice to OP is to monitor her specific situation to see how it plays out and then decide accordingly. But to make decisions on generalities and assumptions is not the best strategy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -

The truth of the matter is that language is not the only barrier in a high ESOL scenario. These are not kids from homes where parents are reading to them at night although in Spanish.

The kids doing well in MCPS are those with highly educated parents and with families that give importance to enrichment and learning outside of school. This is not what is true of the majority of the ESOL kids.

So, yes, MCPS and the teachers will make a very strong attempt to get them up to speed...but your kid will suffer in the end because standards will be dramatically lowered.

I for one applaud that MCPS will concentrate in teaching curriculum 2.0 to ESOL. That is the correct thing to do.

Being in a school that is heavily ESOL is not detrimental because of the language barrier ...it is detrimental because of the disparity in socio-economic status and educational level of parents.

Do you have evidence to back this up or are you just spouting well worn dogma?

Are you kidding? There is tons of educational research to back up the fact that upper middle class kids succed at a far higher rate due to parental involvement. It's not just MCPS, it's a generally know researched and document fact. Feel free to google for the info.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to the poster who takes issue with the generalizations of educational backgrounds of FARMS families etc. I'm not the poster you're responding to, but I am one of the posters who has elected, after visiting the school and researching my options, decided not to send my kid to an almost exclusively poor/ESOL school. Of course you're right that generalizations will sometimes miss the mark, but at least at our school, the fact is that you are dealing with a largely uneducated immigrant population who live in the nearby apartment complexes. I know of families who don't fit the profile and it's surprising to learn that they are eligible for FARMS (somebody lost a job; they work in social services and have a career but not much earning potential etc.), but when you're at a school that is predominately ESOL and FARMS (and by predominately, I mean hitting or at least inching towards the 90% mark), and you interact with those parents at school events etc., and just look around, it isn't racist or prejudicial/animus leading you to these conclusions. It's a readily apparent fact. It won't always be the case, but the poster who makes some of those generalizations is dealing with established and documented demographics of the poorer side of the montgomery county (or at least that's the part of maryland I'm talking about) and it's not a secret or in legitimate dispute. It's one of the big challenges faced by the school district and they know it, and as far as I know they acknowledge it, because the teachers will confirm it.

I am sorry, but what you are saying is a lot different than what you are saying.
They were making sweeping generalizations, and you are talking about your specific, personal experience and allowing that there are folks who do not fit that mold.
That was my only issue, painting everyone with the same broad brush.

Anonymous wrote:to the poster who takes issue with the generalizations of educational backgrounds of FARMS families etc. I'm not the poster you're responding to, but I am one of the posters who has elected, after visiting the school and researching my options, decided not to send my kid to an almost exclusively poor/ESOL school. Of course you're right that generalizations will sometimes miss the mark, but at least at our school, the fact is that you are dealing with a largely uneducated immigrant population who live in the nearby apartment complexes. I know of families who don't fit the profile and it's surprising to learn that they are eligible for FARMS (somebody lost a job; they work in social services and have a career but not much earning potential etc.), but when you're at a school that is predominately ESOL and FARMS (and by predominately, I mean hitting or at least inching towards the 90% mark), and you interact with those parents at school events etc., and just look around, it isn't racist or prejudicial/animus leading you to these conclusions. It's a readily apparent fact. It won't always be the case, but the poster who makes some of those generalizations is dealing with established and documented demographics of the poorer side of the montgomery county (or at least that's the part of maryland I'm talking about) and it's not a secret or in legitimate dispute. It's one of the big challenges faced by the school district and they know it, and as far as I know they acknowledge it, because the teachers will confirm it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -

The truth of the matter is that language is not the only barrier in a high ESOL scenario. These are not kids from homes where parents are reading to them at night although in Spanish.

The kids doing well in MCPS are those with highly educated parents and with families that give importance to enrichment and learning outside of school. This is not what is true of the majority of the ESOL kids.

So, yes, MCPS and the teachers will make a very strong attempt to get them up to speed...but your kid will suffer in the end because standards will be dramatically lowered.

I for one applaud that MCPS will concentrate in teaching curriculum 2.0 to ESOL. That is the correct thing to do.

Being in a school that is heavily ESOL is not detrimental because of the language barrier ...it is detrimental because of the disparity in socio-economic status and educational level of parents.

Do you have evidence to back this up or are you just spouting well worn dogma?