Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:To me it's less about whether the doctors are "epidural pushing, back labor forcing monsters" and more about the extent to which the doctors are trained/equipped to assist mothers in natural childbirth. The Wisdom midwives had a great framing of their work vs. OBs, which is that they are skilled in handling low-risk, normal births (the majority of births) while OBs are trained to handle high risk births- even if the majority of the patients aren't high risk, sometimes when you are a hammer everything looks like a nail, at least in my experience with OBs. That's their job.
I gave birth with Wisdom and had a good birth and pregnancy with them, but the fact remains that there are very few places where there are trained midwives - people trained in normal birth and handling risks of normal woman - esp those that practice out of a hospital. There are few choices.
My former doctor is about as good as it gets for a medical doctor. He was downright enthusiastic about natural childbirth and extremely supportive. the key difference, though, is a midwife is specially trained in achieving natural childbirth and brings skills to the table that will help you get that, and it is not just that she is dedicated to not interfering and supporting, but she can help you get it. And the environment at GW (and at FHBC for that matter) is set up with that in mind. The nurses are used to natural births and can support.
Midwifes can offer clutch assistance, that hinges on years of experience managing natural births, they are knowledge about best pushing positions to turn a baby that is not optimally positioned, they know natural methods to speed up or slow a labor just by changing positions (standing will sometimes speed up, lying on side will sometimes slow down, for example). I loved my doc, I really did, but ultimately there was a one-two punch to having an OB at my birth rather than a midwife. For one thing, doc checked me, realized I was 7cm dilated, and declared I would not be giving birth until 7 the next morning or so and went home for the night. So an hour later, when I got an absolutely incredible urge to push, and indeed, my body was pushing for me, the poor nurse had no idea what to do, only kept telling me "do not push, do not push, if you push with a cervical lip, you will have a c-section." So I wasted a ton of energy breathing through urges to push. Then doc arrived 20 mins later or so, I was pretty pooped from NOT pushing, but had lost the urge to, and then he checks, yep, 10cm, go ahead and push. Then after 20 minutes of pushing, he declares I'm not pushing effectively, so let's turn me over from my hands and knees position, which had felt really good, to sitting back against the bed, with spreadeagled legs. All I could think about was the charlie horse in my ass from the position, how my thighs hurt from DH and the nurse holding them back, and I said "i hate this position!" he said, by all means, turn back over, but I felt this overwhelming need to conserve my energy.
Then he said we may need to do an episiotomy and I guess that was the motivation I needed - I shot baby out like a buttered biscuit, to the tune of a third degree tear, for a 6 lb baby. I believe this is because I was in a very bad position for pushing, one that encourages tears. So then I was pushing in a position that hurt my hips, didn't feel right, and put a tremendous amount of pressure on my tailbone. I had a third degree tear with a 6 lb baby. I do believe a midwife would not have put me into such an unnatural position knowing that pushing in that position greatly increases chances of tearing AND does not open the pelvis as much as squatting allows. Additionally, with a midwife, I would not have been alone, with a frantic nurse trying to find someone, ANYONE to come in and look into my vagina and tell me it was okay to push, and that baby would have been out in a couple of squirts. As it was, I lost all of my oomph. (Ironically, doctor snapped at the nurse and said she should have let me push...but I don't think it was her fault).
anyway, I'm in NO WAY bitter about my birth. I would still highly recommend my provider as someone who is a great choice for a person who needs an MD but wants to go drug free. The ways he was awesome far outweighs the negative, despite the tear and fear that crept into the process. But, he's not a midwife.
I know there are some who would say I might have torn anyway (maybe) or that I should have just pushed (yeah, hindsight is great) when I felt the urge, or that a doula would have made a difference. But the truth is, a doula would NOT have done a thing; I would not have trusted her to make a medical decision. But a midwife? Yeah.
Anyway, that's my story, and sorry if too long, which I think illustrates the difference between even the most wonderful OB and an actual midwife. It's knowing what you need to help mom do to get baby out without medical interference, not just "not interfering" that makes all the difference.
Anonymous wrote:Hi, I'm the OP-- I should've known that my topic would've generated a lot of discussion (Wisdom: them's fighting words!), but at the time I just learned about the diagnosis and it was on a Saturday and I couldn't talk with anyone for several days and I really didn't know what was going on (I have the emotional stability of a teenager right now, it seems). My apologies to anyone who was frustrated or vexed by the discussion.
Anyway, I still don't really know what's going on (I will see someone this week), but now that I've known about the diagnosis for awhile, I just have two points:
1) Part of why I freaked out was because I had a set idea of what labor and delivery would look like (well, I mean, no one really knows until it's happening, but you have a rough idea). I've just become more aware that there are variables beyond my control because of the GD. I may still have an uncomplicated, natural birth, or I may have one that requires a lot of intervention. Most likely, I may have something in-between. I can try to do what I can for a natural birth, but I need to trust that the OBs/midwives/whoever will end up delivering the baby know what's best for my health and the baby's.
(This isn't knocking anyone who elects to have a c-section, btw--I have friends who have done so and do I like them less? To each their own)
2) At the same time, I acknowledge that hospitals/OBs/midwives have inclinations on natural vs. assisted labor and delivery. In an ideal world, I'd try to find OBs who are more aligned to how I view labor and delivery (well, in a truly ideal world, I wouldn't have GD in the first place). But time isn't my friend: I'm at 29 weeks, I have to address this GD issue right away, and GW already has my medical records. Plus, I hear the GW OBs are all right. So, I'll just stay where I am for now, and it was reassuring to hear that some people also risked out of Wisdom and they also were OK in the end.
This doesn't address a lot of the issues raised in the last several pages (to be honest, I haven't read through it all so I'll do that when I have a little more free time), but I think it's good that there is even a discussion going on about how there should be more options for women to approach labor and delivery. The next question is, how do you get the prevailing medical establishment on board to be open to those options as well (I'm really thinking of Inova Fairfax, which is nearby where I live)? Do you volunteer to be on a committee at a hospital, do you donate money in such a way that reflects your beliefs? I don't really have any answers, but it's something to think about.
Sorry for going on for so long!
Anonymous wrote:To me it's less about whether the doctors are "epidural pushing, back labor forcing monsters" and more about the extent to which the doctors are trained/equipped to assist mothers in natural childbirth. The Wisdom midwives had a great framing of their work vs. OBs, which is that they are skilled in handling low-risk, normal births (the majority of births) while OBs are trained to handle high risk births- even if the majority of the patients aren't high risk, sometimes when you are a hammer everything looks like a nail, at least in my experience with OBs. That's their job.
I gave birth with Wisdom and had a good birth and pregnancy with them, but the fact remains that there are very few places where there are trained midwives - people trained in normal birth and handling risks of normal woman - esp those that practice out of a hospital. There are few choices.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OBs are so unfairly demonized. My OBs have all been understanding and accommodating and have wanted best for me and my baby. I was never encouraged or pressured to do any one thing or to get an epidural and I never felt like a head of cattle being moved through a pen. Many OBs are truly compassionate and willing to work with you to have the best birth possible. This is all any woman wants. Whether that's with an OB or a midwife or a doula- I just don't see why any one group has to be targeted as providing a "lesser" birth the way OBs tend to be here.
I love you, PP. So well put! I feel this way about my OB practice - they were completely, 100% behind an unmedicated birth and so supportive and encouraging every step of the way. I can totally appreciate why people opt for midwives, but it really bothers me when it's presented as the polar opposite of everything OB.
Would both of you mind sharing your OB's names? That has not been my experience with OBs, and I would love to know the name of some of the fabled high-touch, low-intervention docs.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:9:59 again.
I also meant to say re: "GD being the mom's fault", I have a hard time believing that Whitney, who has been a midwife for a long time for a lot of women, would actually believe that. I know she thinks that their dietary guidelines will result in the healthiest pregnancy possible, but I also doubt that she believes any deviation from this diet will result in GD.
I do think it's possible that in individual cases, it is possible that a particular woman is not managing her diet the way Whitney would like. When I was pregnant with my first, I ate a lot of gelato. I also ate a lot of shitty carbs. I slacked big time on green leafy vegetables. My sugars were pretty high as a result, though not so high that I needed to get the 3 hour test. Some women eat better than others. Some things you eat can have adverse effects on your health and one of those things is GD. So while I don't think that it's "the woman's fault" that she had GD, I think there are also times when better attention to diet could have prevented it.
PP who had GD with Wisdom and was not risked out. You don't want to believe that she thinks that because it's a bit outrageous, and yet she does (and I have confirmation that she believes this from a source beyond my personal conversation with her). I will say it one last time -- I followed their diet to the letter. Maybe there are some cases where better diet could have prevented GD, but mine was not one of those cases (unless following their diet somehow leads one to GD). To treat all women with GD as if it is their fault and this wouldn't have happened to them if they had just tried harder when they have been doing their damnedest to follow the stupid diet is demoralizing and patronizing. I cried all day that day thinking it was my fault somehow. IMO it's not OK to treat all women with GD as failures and accuse them of not being sufficiently diligent just because some may not be. It's over the top.
I honestly hope my previous experience was an anomaly, but I don't think it is.
I totally agree that that's a shitty way to treat someone, regardless of how the GD manifested. But you also need look no further than this board to know that there are people who actively advocate saying that you followed the diet even when you didn't and never intended to. I'm sorry she was a jerk to you and I hope your subsequent experiences are better.
Out of curiosity, have you (or any of the former clients with complaints) actually talked to Whitney about your concerns? What was the result of that conversation, if so. If not, why not?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OBs are so unfairly demonized. My OBs have all been understanding and accommodating and have wanted best for me and my baby. I was never encouraged or pressured to do any one thing or to get an epidural and I never felt like a head of cattle being moved through a pen. Many OBs are truly compassionate and willing to work with you to have the best birth possible. This is all any woman wants. Whether that's with an OB or a midwife or a doula- I just don't see why any one group has to be targeted as providing a "lesser" birth the way OBs tend to be here.
I love you, PP. So well put! I feel this way about my OB practice - they were completely, 100% behind an unmedicated birth and so supportive and encouraging every step of the way. I can totally appreciate why people opt for midwives, but it really bothers me when it's presented as the polar opposite of everything OB.
Anonymous wrote:I think the problem is that we are all judging ourselves too much, and so we can't take it when our care provider is critical.
But I'm so tired of all the Wisdom-bashing on this forum. I so appreciate all the people who have said, look, the practice is what it is, if you don't dig it, there are so many others. It's not a sorority that you need to get into. I promise, it isn't.
The real question is, what should the OP do? She wants a midwifery model of care, but she's risked out of GW's midwifery program. Should she look for another midwifery practice? An OB? Which OB, since I'm pretty sure they're not all secretly plotting to strap her to the table and force all kinds of unnecessary interventions.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought I would be diagnosed with GD but I wasn't (failed the one hour and was afraid of the three hour). Another midwife had been my midwife whom I saw just prior to the screening test, so I emailed her when I was afraid and needed to know next steps. I am seeing I am glad to have trusted my instinct.
Whitney told me "don't get GD. It would be really, really bad if you got GD" (I have some risk factors - mostly family). I wasn't sure what to say to that, but I can say her words rung in my ears when I failed the one hour and gave me even more ammunition for my body feeling like it was failing me.
I'm not Whitney, so I can'ttell you what she meant by that. But I can tell you what I think she meant.
The midwives take you in and make you like family. If you get GD that would cause them to risk you out, they would lose a family member. It's not a fair way to put it, since you can't control whether you'll get GD or not, but I think that's what she meant.
If you really believe this you are totally drinking the (proverbial) Kool-Aid.
Dude, Kool-Aid is not part of the diet plan!