jsteele
04/20/2013 13:05
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Anonymous wrote:I bet you wouldn't bother with all this grasping at straws if the terrorist turned out to be the white male tea party anti-government type you were hoping for.
I didn't hope it would be anyone. I did hope it wouldn't be a Muslim because I was afraid of the anti-Muslim feeding frenzy we are now seeing.
But, let's turn things around. If a white, male, tea party, anti-government type had been caught, would you readily accept it? Or, would you question it? Would you agree with accusations that the actions of the culprit had meaning with regard to other white, male, tea party, anti-government types? I am pretty sure you wouldn't just sit back and agree that this action meant that the tea party, anti-government ideology had provoked the bombing.
If things were turned around, I probably wouldn't agree with alternative theories that you might offer and I might enjoy the challenge of poking holes in them. But, I wouldn't immediately rule them out. I've seen the conventional wisdom be wrong far too many times to immediately accept it.
Anonymous
04/20/2013 12:39
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
jsteele wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Why would organized crime bomb the marathon? More likely that any level of organized crime would be selling unlicensed memorabilia. No profit in the bomb.
I haven't figured out a motive. But, I think organized crime's involvement is the means of getting them to do it. I suspect that someone paid the crime network. That could have been a foreign government, a terrorist organization, or even someone who had some sort of beef with the marathon.
Another interesting theory is presented here:
http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/fathers-sons-chechnya.html
This one does assume that Islam played a role.
I bet you wouldn't bother with all this grasping at straws if the terrorist turned out to be the white male tea party anti-government type you were hoping for.
Anonymous
04/20/2013 12:00
Subject: What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Wait. And there are no out of wedlock births in some other religions?
What's that got to do with anything? Don't understand the question.
A religious muslim would NOT have a relationship or girlfriend is analogous to a religious catholic NOT having sex and getting /or begotten pregnant.
I still don't understand what you are trying to say, but going on a wild hunch, yes, religious Catholics, I suppose, do end up sometimes having sex and getting people pregnant, but no one, I hope, would say, I am a religious Catholic! Look at my live-in girlfriend and a condom collection, aren't they beautiful? Likewise, for someone to call themselves a devout Muslim and in the same breath to say, look at my girlfriend, isn't she beautiful, she converted to Islam for me (but still gets photographed wearing a skimpy tank, a big no-no for Muslim girls), is just nonsense. And let's not forget that he is married to someone else, a white American girl, either at the same time or shortly after that said girlfriend (picture taken in 2009, yet he has a 3-year old child with someone else..huh??)
Anonymous
04/20/2013 11:58
Subject: What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Wow, lot of excuses to avoid calling him a terrorist on this thread- lol, Keep on believing he isn't a radical or a terrorist... just be glad rough men stand ready to do the hard work to protect everyone's freedom of speech
jsteele
04/20/2013 11:46
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Anonymous wrote:
Why would organized crime bomb the marathon? More likely that any level of organized crime would be selling unlicensed memorabilia. No profit in the bomb.
I haven't figured out a motive. But, I think organized crime's involvement is the means of getting them to do it. I suspect that someone paid the crime network. That could have been a foreign government, a terrorist organization, or even someone who had some sort of beef with the marathon.
Another interesting theory is presented here:
http://www.juancole.com/2013/04/fathers-sons-chechnya.html
This one does assume that Islam played a role.
Anonymous
04/20/2013 11:42
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
jsteele wrote:So, you guys are giving me shit about my boxing theory. Now I have a new one. I think they may have done it for money. Neither of the guys has any visible means of support. Yet, the younger one apparently was walking around in $900 shoes. According to the Boston Global, a guy who the older one identified as his best friend was found killed with his throat slashed and marijuana spread all over him. That sounds like someone who was a drug dealer and messed with the wrong guys. Chechens are known to often have ties to organized crime and ties to organized crime might be the explanation for the apparent estrangement of the family from the uncle in Maryland.
So, let's say these guys had ties to dangerous criminal elements. For reasons I can't explain, those elements or someone related to them paid these guys to drop off bombs at the marathon. That could explain their lack of an escape plan as well. Rather than viewing what they were doing as a terrorist attack after which they would have to run and hide, they saw it as a day job that they would perform and then return to their normal lives. Obviously, if so, they didn't think it out very carefully.
This would also explain how the younger one was convinced to go along. Instead of requiring some sort of brain washing by the older brother, all that was needed was a warning that "we do this or we get our throats slashed".
Why would organized crime bomb the marathon? More likely that any level of organized crime would be selling unlicensed memorabilia. No profit in the bomb.
Anonymous
04/20/2013 11:40
Subject: What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Wait. And there are no out of wedlock births in some other religions?
What's that got to do with anything? Don't understand the question.
A religious muslim would NOT have a relationship or girlfriend is analogous to a religious catholic NOT having sex and getting /or begotten pregnant.
Anonymous
04/20/2013 11:20
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
jsteele wrote:So, you guys are giving me shit about my boxing theory. Now I have a new one. I think they may have done it for money. Neither of the guys has any visible means of support. Yet, the younger one apparently was walking around in $900 shoes. According to the Boston Global, a guy who the older one identified as his best friend was found killed with his throat slashed and marijuana spread all over him. That sounds like someone who was a drug dealer and messed with the wrong guys. Chechens are known to often have ties to organized crime and ties to organized crime might be the explanation for the apparent estrangement of the family from the uncle in Maryland.
So, let's say these guys had ties to dangerous criminal elements. For reasons I can't explain, those elements or someone related to them paid these guys to drop off bombs at the marathon. That could explain their lack of an escape plan as well. Rather than viewing what they were doing as a terrorist attack after which they would have to run and hide, they saw it as a day job that they would perform and then return to their normal lives. Obviously, if so, they didn't think it out very carefully.
This would also explain how the younger one was convinced to go along. Instead of requiring some sort of brain washing by the older brother, all that was needed was a warning that "we do this or we get our throats slashed".
If they did it for the money, why the lack of an escape plan? I note that the brothers' behavior after the event shows extraordinary stupidity. It would have been SO easy to jump on a next plane and go back to Russia to visit family, drive to Canada to visit auntie, really, anything except hanging around, tweeting, going back to their apartment, hijacking cars and behaving so conspicuously. What did they expect???
Anonymous
04/20/2013 11:06
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
jsteele wrote:So, you guys are giving me shit about my boxing theory. Now I have a new one. I think they may have done it for money. Neither of the guys has any visible means of support. Yet, the younger one apparently was walking around in $900 shoes. According to the Boston Global, a guy who the older one identified as his best friend was found killed with his throat slashed and marijuana spread all over him. That sounds like someone who was a drug dealer and messed with the wrong guys. Chechens are known to often have ties to organized crime and ties to organized crime might be the explanation for the apparent estrangement of the family from the uncle in Maryland.
So, let's say these guys had ties to dangerous criminal elements. For reasons I can't explain, those elements or someone related to them paid these guys to drop off bombs at the marathon. That could explain their lack of an escape plan as well. Rather than viewing what they were doing as a terrorist attack after which they would have to run and hide, they saw it as a day job that they would perform and then return to their normal lives. Obviously, if so, they didn't think it out very carefully.
This would also explain how the younger one was convinced to go along. Instead of requiring some sort of brain washing by the older brother, all that was needed was a warning that "we do this or we get our throats slashed".
Yes, to involvement in Russian mafia as father in Russia made threats that"if they kill my second son, then all hell gonna break loose" no doubt family estrangement is about money and debts, but that is par for course with the family from the look of them in the interviews, ESP the Canadian Aunt . But a big NO to doing it for money. Take an honest look at what FBI is sharing from his online activities , recent travel and person of interest to Rissian counter terrorism and give it up already
Anonymous
04/20/2013 10:59
Subject: What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Anonymous wrote:And remember he was married to an American woman and had a 3-year old daughter with her. Look up Katherine Russell.
Yes, a WASPY New England family, probably why the FBI scratched him off their list when they investigated him two years ago at the behest of Russian counter terrorism authorities.
Soon as that investigation blew over though, he abandoned his wife and toddler and heads off to Dagestan for 6 months and she moves home ... Hmmmm
jsteele
04/20/2013 10:56
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
So, you guys are giving me shit about my boxing theory. Now I have a new one. I think they may have done it for money. Neither of the guys has any visible means of support. Yet, the younger one apparently was walking around in $900 shoes. According to the Boston Global, a guy who the older one identified as his best friend was found killed with his throat slashed and marijuana spread all over him. That sounds like someone who was a drug dealer and messed with the wrong guys. Chechens are known to often have ties to organized crime and ties to organized crime might be the explanation for the apparent estrangement of the family from the uncle in Maryland.
So, let's say these guys had ties to dangerous criminal elements. For reasons I can't explain, those elements or someone related to them paid these guys to drop off bombs at the marathon. That could explain their lack of an escape plan as well. Rather than viewing what they were doing as a terrorist attack after which they would have to run and hide, they saw it as a day job that they would perform and then return to their normal lives. Obviously, if so, they didn't think it out very carefully.
This would also explain how the younger one was convinced to go along. Instead of requiring some sort of brain washing by the older brother, all that was needed was a warning that "we do this or we get our throats slashed".
So, let's say these guys had ties to dangerous criminal elements. For reasons I can't explain, those elements or someone related to them paid these guys to drop off bombs at the marathon. That could explain their lack of an escape plan as well. Rather than viewing what they were doing as a terrorist attack after which they would have to run and hide, they saw it as a day job that they would perform and then return to their normal lives. Obviously, if so, they didn't think it out very carefully.
This would also explain how the younger one was convinced to go along. Instead of requiring some sort of brain washing by the older brother, all that was needed was a warning that "we do this or we get our throats slashed".
Anonymous
04/20/2013 10:42
Subject: What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
And remember he was married to an American woman and had a 3-year old daughter with her. Look up Katherine Russell.
Anonymous
04/20/2013 10:41
Subject: What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Anonymous wrote:
Wait. And there are no out of wedlock births in some other religions?
What's that got to do with anything? Don't understand the question.
Anonymous
04/20/2013 08:28
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
Anonymous wrote:And from NBC News:
NBC 4 New York reported Friday that Tamerlan Tsarnaev flew in and out of John F. Kennedy Airport last year and spent six months out of the country, raising the possibility that he may have received terror training abroad.
Travel records obtained by the station show that the 26-year-old left New York January 12, 2012, en route to Moscow. He returned to JFK July 17.
Documents show a photo of a bearded Tsarnaev
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/20/17823265-we-got-him-boston-bombing-suspect-captured-alive?lite
The USA is too lenient with immigrants and those who based on events in the world could be terrorists. If I got an official call or notification from Russia on a potential terrorist I would not have a little Q & A. Return it to the country of origin. Some young guy in his twenties - a non public figure? Just how do such individuals come to the attention of the Russian government?
Anonymous
04/20/2013 08:06
Subject: Re:What exactly is Chechyna'a beef with the USA?
And this from the Daily Beast:
In the hours since the Tsarnaevs had been identified as the prime suspects in the bombings, a picture has begun to emerge of the older brother as a man who felt like an outsider in the US and had recently become radicalized.
The 26-year-old had a channel on YouTube since August 2012. Five months ago, Tamerlan created a playlist dedicated to terrorism.
Named simply ‘Terrorists,’ the playlist included a pair of videos, which are now no longer available.
Although most of the clips in the channel are ordinary music videos, Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s YouTube channel shows signs that he had been drawn to radical Islamism.
Among the songs on his playlists was one called ‘I will dedicate my life to Jihad.' He also featured videos recorded by recent converts to Islam.
The 26-year-old former boxer also appeared to favor radical sermons by an Australian Muslim preacher of Lebanese descent best known for calling for the beheading of a right-wing Dutch politician.
Feiz Mohammad, who like Tamerlan was also a boxer, has gained notoriety for preaching an extreme form of Sunni Islam closely associated with al-Qaeda known as Salafism, The Daily Beast reported.
In 2007, the sheik came under fire for calling on young Muslims to become Jihadis.
Tsarnaev also allegedly fell under the influence of Abdel al-Hamid al-Juhani, who has been accused of working to expand the influence of al-Qaeda in Chechnya and the Caucasus.
In the hours since the Tsarnaevs had been identified as the prime suspects in the bombings, a picture has begun to emerge of the older brother as a man who felt like an outsider in the US and had recently become radicalized.
The 26-year-old had a channel on YouTube since August 2012. Five months ago, Tamerlan created a playlist dedicated to terrorism.
Named simply ‘Terrorists,’ the playlist included a pair of videos, which are now no longer available.
Although most of the clips in the channel are ordinary music videos, Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s YouTube channel shows signs that he had been drawn to radical Islamism.
Among the songs on his playlists was one called ‘I will dedicate my life to Jihad.' He also featured videos recorded by recent converts to Islam.
The 26-year-old former boxer also appeared to favor radical sermons by an Australian Muslim preacher of Lebanese descent best known for calling for the beheading of a right-wing Dutch politician.
Feiz Mohammad, who like Tamerlan was also a boxer, has gained notoriety for preaching an extreme form of Sunni Islam closely associated with al-Qaeda known as Salafism, The Daily Beast reported.
In 2007, the sheik came under fire for calling on young Muslims to become Jihadis.
Tsarnaev also allegedly fell under the influence of Abdel al-Hamid al-Juhani, who has been accused of working to expand the influence of al-Qaeda in Chechnya and the Caucasus.